Wasps & Council conspire again (1 Viewer)

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
Weird

I clicked on the link and only see a headline. No details whatsoever. Come back in here and chiefs post bemoaning CCC and wasps has disappeared too.
 

Nick

Administrator
RUGBY club Wasps are in secret talks to build 240 homes on lucrative green land they have ‘acquired’ near to their planned training facility at the Higgs centre home of the Sky Blues’ youth academy, we can exclusively reveal.

The revelations follow negotiations with Coventry City Council over changing the ‘Local Plan’ blueprint for future development with a view to obtaining planning permission for the entire 240 homes plan, at the part Green Belt site off London Road/Allard Way.

The council has already provided support for Wasps’ proposals in a written ‘Statement of Common Ground’ (SOCG).

Speculation on a Coventry City fans’ website in June about a rumoured sale of the site for a Wasps academy led some to claim it was further evidence of favourable council treatment since the Ricoh Arena sale to the former London Wasps two years ago.

With around £35million of Wasps debt residing in a retail bond scheme, the housing development could potentially provide Wasps with a long-term financial lifeline. It is unknown when discussions commenced over Wasps obtaining the land.

It is the type of non-sporting commercial development alongside owning a sporting facility that both Coventry City Football Club and Coventry Rugby Football Club have sought, to boost revenues for their playing teams and add value.

Plans advanced since last year for the two traditional city clubs to groundshare at Cov rugby’s expanded Butts Park Arena with potential commercial development nearby appear to remain one possibility.

We revealed a leaked council email proposed blocking any professional football at the Butts. And former Cov player and lawyer Chris Millerchip – who is linked with the council and Coventry sporting authorities though his financing of the ‘Coventry – A City of Rugby’ project – had been blocking a necessary transfer of the Butts head lease he owned. But a deal to transfer the head-lease to Cov rugby chairman Jon Sharp has finally been announced this week.

Full council planning permission has now been granted for Wasps to move into Sky Blues’ academy home at the Alan Higgs Centre in Allard Way next to the proposed housing development site, after the government and statutory consultee Sport England decided not to intervene.

Wasps’ homes plan appears in council-published planning documents but it has not been made clear that Wasps are behind the plan under a separate new company, WPS Trading Limited.

It was registered with Companies House in February this year. Documents show its only directors and shareholders are Wasps’ chairman Derek Richardson and chief executive David Armstrong.

The company’s registered address was changed in July this year to the Ricoh Arena from the Cambridgeshire address of financial company VCapital Advisory Limited.

A letter to the council’s planning department from Oxalis Planning, dated July 7 this year, states: “We act on behalf of WPS Trading Ltd who have recently acquired land off London Road, Coventry.”

It calls for alterations to the council’s draft ‘Local Plan’- which will govern how land is allocated for housing and other development over the next 20 years – with part of the land being in green belt and containing a listed building, a former Severn Trent pumping station.

The letter adds:”The site capacity could therefore be increased to approximately 240 homes.”

It also states: “The proposed (housing) allocation is, as currently proposed, divided in to two halves with a strip of land in the centre.

“This currently sits within the Green Belt (2001 CDP) but is proposed through the new Local Plan to be re-designated as part of the local green space network”.

At least part of the land was or is owned by Severn Trent Water.

Severn Trent in 2004 sought planning permission to build homes at the former pumping station land.

The letter and Statement of Common Ground document – providing council support for Wasps proposals to “assist” a planning inspector examining the draft Local Plan – are published on the council’s Local Plan website pages, and can be viewed from the links below.

Wasps homes letter

Wasps homes plan – Statement of Common Ground with council
 

Nick

Administrator
I thought it was strange that Simon didn't push them on the Severn Trent land and it was left at "no comment"....
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Come back in here and chiefs post bemoaning CCC and wasps has disappeared too.
moved it to the other thread as people were talking about it in there.

Sure its just another coincidence that Wasps who, according to their owner Richardson, aren't interested in property development 'I’m not a property developer, I’ve never developed anything in my life. I’ve never thought of this as something I might make profit from.' are now moving into property development.

Building on green belt land no less that requires CCC to change the city plan. Wonder if they purchased the land at a price reflecting the restrictions in place or a price appropriate to a site being developed for housing?

Seem to recall when we were talking about a stadium within the city boundary many were saying it was impossible if it wasn't in the city plan as that couldn't be changed.

How much more evidence do people need that the council and Wasps are working hand in hand?
 

jimmyhillsfanclub

Well-Known Member
Wonder if they purchased the land at a price reflecting the restrictions in place or a price appropriate to a site being developed for housing?

Key question......but I fear just another one we'll never know the true answer to.....

...this shady lot are starting to make the HR/Tesco/Ricoh deal look transparent & straightforward......
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
Surely no one here is saying that Wasps are demanding that SISU drop their legal action against the council in order to win a favourable planning decision (and hiding behind a shadow company to do so)?

Good Lord, that would be an outrage. Poor, loveable, nomadic Wasps and the upright, open, decent and honest people who run Coventry City Council in some sort of sly, corrupt, secretive plan. Why I can't believe anyone could even countenance the idea.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Surely no one here is saying that Wasps are demanding that SISU drop their legal action against the council in order to win a favourable planning decision (and hiding behind a shadow company to do so)?

Good Lord, that would be an outrage. Poor, loveable, nomadic Wasps and the upright, open, decent and honest people who run Coventry City Council in some sort of sly, corrupt, secretive plan. Why I can't believe anyone could even countenance the idea.
Of course not but I'm sure our local media, who have never done a deal with that same council to suppress stories for Wasps and the councils benefit will be thoroughly investigating the rapidly rising number of coincidences to ensure nothing untoward is going on.
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
Of course not but I'm sure our local media, who have never done a deal with that same council to suppress stories for Wasps and the councils benefit will be thoroughly investigating the rapidly rising number of coincidences to ensure nothing untoward is going on.

Absolutely. The CET will hold their feet to the fire on this, I've no doubt. Thank God we've got a press that can't be intimidated or bought into silence eh, or there's no telling what might go on.
 

olderskyblue

Well-Known Member
moved it to the other thread as people were talking about it in there

I tried it on chrome too, but still no story. clicked a link to Les' twitter, and voila, it was all there. Did wonder if something was going wrong with my PC or my short term memory. Didn't know you could move posts to other threads
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
clearly they have a good working relationship, and work together, as to what or who they are conspiring against by this particular deal not sure unless you tie it to the AHC situation in some way. Both seem to gain by this proposal. Could there be secret handshakes on plans/deals, not naiive enough to think that couldn't be the case but we do not know there were - total transparency would be better but that's not the case for any of the parties involved in the greater saga of Coventry and the sports teams here - in reality business and property deals in particular rarely work that way

Taking several steps back then (a) it is similar to what has been proposed by CCFC/SISU on other potential sites and by CRFC at BPA (b) could be worth tens of millions (eg 240 houses at £200k each = £48m (c) helps the council hosing shortage (d) potentially knocks a big hole in the £34m debt that apparently threatens Wasps future, that is once ownership of WPS Trading Ltd switches to Wasps Holdings Ltd (presently owned by Richardson & Armstrong). Should it get approved - wont it need to go to Sec of State because it is (a) greenbelt & (b) flood plain?

People say things, circumstances/opportunities change, they say something different

In much the same way as the whole engineered pattern to break the Ricoh lease was quite clever then the potential for Wasps in this deal is also quite clever

Who owned the site whole site in the first place, Severn Trent or were others involved? If CCC land then sale value could be challenged but it has not been removed from green belt yet so I doubt there is a premium for potential planning

Couple of interesting developments today, and delivered by the local reporters in a professional way
 
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Nick

Administrator
Was it mentioned if Severn Trent were given planning when they tried?

The severn trent stuff was pointed out by si80 months ago, also mentioned they had a free box at Wasps as a sweetener.

The timing again must be a coincidence.
 
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stupot07

Well-Known Member
I doubt they would make anywhere near that much money. I remember watching a programme on BBC now long ago about building costs, etc of big housing providers and the profit wasnt as big as you'd think it would be.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
wasn't saying they would make £48m stupot that's an example top line a developer might make before deducting costs, I would think WSP Trading will sell the site on with full planning permission and take a profit on that which could be millions
 

Nick

Administrator
wasn't saying they would make £48m stupot that's an example top line a developer might make before deducting costs, I would think WSP Trading will sell the site on with full planning permission and take a profit on that which could be millions
Sort of like the telegraph are trying to do?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
I doubt they would make anywhere near that much money. I remember watching a programme on BBC now long ago about building costs, etc of big housing providers and the profit wasnt as big as you'd think it would be.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Read an article that stated a margin of 7% for a small house-builder and 11.7% for a large one, though read elsewhere that Barratts were looking at 40%. Though once permission is granted you might see Wasps sell the land on to an actual house-builder. I have no idea how much it would cost to build an estate of 240 houses including all the infrastructure work required (no doubt CCC will find something to help this part).
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
Read an article that stated a margin of 7% for a small house-builder and 11.7% for a large one, though read elsewhere that Barratts were looking at 40%. Though once permission is granted you might see Wasps sell the land on to an actual house-builder. I have no idea how much it would cost to build an estate of 240 houses including all the infrastructure work required (no doubt CCC will find something to help this part).
Roughly £100K to build a 4bed. detached.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
I would think WSP Trading will sell the site on with full planning permission and take a profit on that which could be millions
Does raise questions though doesn't it. If ST tried to do the same and were told it wasn't possible so sold the land at a lower value to Wasps and then once Wasps own it suddenly it can be built on and is worth far more.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
I would have much more problem with it had CCFC been refused then Wasps got the permission

as an aside what it does highlight is that by thinking unconventionally there are deals to be done that could benefit a sports team that do not centre on the stadium site.

In my opinion whoever the owners are at CCFC they need to think differently to the accepted norm from now on if they are to turn things around, but it will require the calculated risk of new capital and building partnerships
 

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
I would have much more problem with it had CCFC been refused then Wasps got the permission

as an aside what it does highlight is that by thinking unconventionally there are deals to be done that could benefit a sports team that do not centre on the stadium site.

In my opinion whoever the owners are at CCFC they need to think differently to the accepted norm from now on if they are to turn things around, but it will require the calculated risk of new capital and building partnerships

Strange though the only potential developer in the area to achieve this is a WASPs offshoot - wonder when they were given the nod about going from Green Belt to Resi
Still I expect CCC to have a top slice arrangement and it will cover part cost of a swimming pool?

Incidentally it is the uplift achieved from green belt to resi where the money is - not in the actual build
 

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
clearly they have a good working relationship, and work together, as to what or who they are conspiring against by this particular deal not sure unless you tie it to the AHC situation in some way. Both seem to gain by this proposal. Could there be secret handshakes on plans/deals, not naiive enough to think that couldn't be the case but we do not know there were - total transparency would be better but that's not the case for any of the parties involved in the greater saga of Coventry and the sports teams here - in reality business and property deals in particular rarely work that way

Taking several steps back then (a) it is similar to what has been proposed by CCFC/SISU on other potential sites and by CRFC at BPA (b) could be worth tens of millions (eg 240 houses at £200k each = £48m (c) helps the council hosing shortage (d) potentially knocks a big hole in the £34m debt that apparently threatens Wasps future, that is once ownership of WPS Trading Ltd switches to Wasps Holdings Ltd (presently owned by Richardson & Armstrong). Should it get approved - wont it need to go to Sec of State because it is (a) greenbelt & (b) flood plain?

People say things, circumstances/opportunities change, they say something different

In much the same way as the whole engineered pattern to break the Ricoh lease was quite clever then the potential for Wasps in this deal is also quite clever

Who owned the site whole site in the first place, Severn Trent or were others involved? If CCC land then sale value could be challenged but it has not been removed from green belt yet so I doubt there is a premium for potential planning

Couple of interesting developments today, and delivered by the local reporters in a professional way

Do you think
A) WASPS will meet the Gearing Covenants for the Bond Holders in the accounting year just past
b) That the overdue revaluation of the Arena Stadium will go up or down? Allowing for the uncertainty in the CCC lease position, the non appearance of the JLR naming rights, no stand naming rights and there has to be a substantial dilapidation schedule from what is rumoured?
 

SkyBlueZack

Well-Known Member
It's shameful. Still got people defending and excusing the council though. They appear to be unable to do no wrong with some people. There is no doubt this has been concocted. It's a council assisting a private company to make money. They couldn't give the local team this assistance of course. Why should it just be given away? Councils are not here to aide failing sports teams. Well blow me down. Get your heads out your arses all that are conspicuous by their absence on this thread.

How about Gilbert or Reid put a request to see if the council bought any of the bonds?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Saddening. Does look like Wasps are now here to stay. :(

Would be interested to know what the reasons were for Severn Trent being turned down. I don't think you can simply say STW were tuned down, but Wasps got it. The key could be as to why STW were tuned down.

Still sad news.
 

will am i

Active Member
I doubt many will notice, everybody is looking in a different direction...
So the council are happy to work with private business even hedge funds but not SISU. Do you ever wonder why its only SISU no one will deal with or are you always looking in a different direction?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
So the council are happy to work with private business even hedge funds but not SISU. Do you ever wonder why its only SISU no one will deal with or are you always looking in a different direction?
It's a fair point and is often glossed over on here. I heard a few years back (within the council and within Higgs) that I simply wouldn't believe some of things about Sisu and how they conducted business. The words I heard were 'shocking' and 'unbelievable.'

I do understand a lot of the wrath around at the moment, 'why do this for Wasps but not for Sisu,' but this I do think is a big factor, that of Sisu with the batter people in court mentality and falling out with a number of organisations.

As with everything pretty much, it's not all just black and white.
 

Nick

Administrator
So the council are happy to work with private business even hedge funds but not SISU. Do you ever wonder why its only SISU no one will deal with or are you always looking in a different direction?

What about before SISU? What about things like the Open Doors stuff?

Let's not pretend there is massive amounts of back scratching going on and that everything is just co-incidence :)
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
What about before SISU? What about things like the Open Doors stuff?

Let's not pretend there is massive amounts of back scratching going on and that everything is just co-incidence :)
There is back scratching going on.

I like many others though believe that the council are not 'against' the football club, just Sisu.

Yes, yes, I know, that in turn hurts the club in hurting Sisu, but I think there is a short term pain for long term gain scenario being played out.

There are a fair number of councillors who are Coventry City supporters, but I do believe the council have a twinkle in their eye that is blinkering them somewhat and they are just salivating over the thought of maybe the biggest rugby club in the world on their doorstep.

Also one very big beady eye is on the City of Culture bid, which Wasps seem to be totally onboard with.

Double whammy!!
 

Rusty Trombone

Well-Known Member
Update from the Observer.

UPDATE: Land Registry documents show part of the Green Belt land was sold on April 12 this year by Severn Trent Water to WPS Trading Ltd for £900,000 plus VAT.
 

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