Another Gilbert tease. (3 Viewers)

Grendel

Well-Known Member
It still doesn't make them insolvent though does it?

Yes as the valuation was projected not actual. As part of the bond agreement there were supposed to have another valuation. To my knowledge that hasn't happened.
 

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
I think we all knew this. May I add that wasps have a good team and aren't they top? Europe?

What about when the bubble bursts and a few people don't go anymore.

Trouble is they will find a way out of it so expect them to still be here past 2022 sadly.
 

Captain Dart

Well-Known Member
Never was going to be paid back in full at the end of term except by borrowing from somewhere else, anyone know what commercial rates are like on deals like that?

I notice Richardson is propping Wasps up, I've said several times before he would. Others have questioned his ability to find the money but I think he has up to £10M available, that will see them out till the bond scheme completes.

Both CCFC & Wasps are turning their finances round, but in very different ways.
 

Nick

Administrator
Ha BenjaminBuck on the comments all over the telegraph, I am not sure it could be any more obvious.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Nothing new to see in this article, it was analysed by a number of people on this site about 3 weeks ago and Mr Carvells comments by and large agree with that. Much better analysis from him on this than the one he did for CCFC imo.

As for the headline - who writes these at the CT? - misleading surely most people realised that Wasps would need to refinance. We have discussed that on this site since 2015. The headline makes it seem like it is imminent - it isn't. They can choose to refinance from 2019 onwards but have to probably refinance by May 2022. Refinance could be another bond, a loan or even floating the company as a PLC. Plenty of options

Given the background of the people in charge at Wasps, then if we can see the need to refinance it is reasonable to think this is something they have planned for. So hardly a shock

The immediate problem for Wasps is meeting the bond covenant conditions each year. These underpin the bond itself. They need to increase operating profits, that will mean recovering or driving down costs as well as increasing income. Getting a sponsor signed up would of course help with achieving the necessary levels.

Are Wasps insolvent - no. Can it meet its liabilities as it falls due - no evidence they can not. Do they have financial support of the owners - it would seem so. They appear to have equity available in their fixed assets. It would seem they have the ability to source finance. Cash flow is tight there is an expectation of improvement in 2nd six months

Bond price - doesn't represent a valuation of the company as such - provides an indication of what investors think of the risk, amongst other things. When results last six months came out 28/02/17 101p now currently 104p. No panic about repayment there it would seem

The article that is of most interest to CCFC fans in the last 24 hours is not this one, I doubt other news outlets have been clamouring for this story as claimed
 
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oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Glad this thread has stayed here. Never really did see the point of having a separate Wasps section.

only here don because everyone thought it would be something to do with CCFC - it isnt
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Wasn't this said by nearly everyone other than wasps wankers, that they won't be able to pay this. They have to pay back 35m + interest by the year 2022, it was never feasible.
Are they Wankers because they only get 6.5% and their money back when the bond is reissued or because they could have got 10% with SISU/CCFC and no chance of there money back ?
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Are they Wankers because they only get 6.5% and their money back when the bond is reissued or because they could have got 10% with SISU/CCFC and no chance of there money back ?

They're wankers because they shouldn't be here.
 

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
only here don because everyone thought it would be something to do with CCFC - it isnt

I know, it isn't and it hasn't been moved. Which I think is good, personally.
There are some people on this site who think that SISU are killing time waiting for Wasps to have to sell the Ricoh.
So personally I think any stories such as this still have a relevance here and people choose to read them or not.
I also think when Wasps are doing something marketing or promotions wise that we are not it's worth going on here and discussing as well. Whether CCFC should be doing the same or not.
 

Nick

Administrator
I know, it isn't and it hasn't been moved. Which I think is good, personally.
There are some people on this site who think that SISU are killing time waiting for Wasps to have to sell the Ricoh.
So personally I think any stories such as this still have a relevance here and people choose to read them or not.
I also think when Wasps are doing something marketing or promotions wise that we are not it's worth going on here and discussing as well. Whether CCFC should be doing the same or not.

Why are you making out they get deleted or moved to a different site? It goes to a sub forum FFS.
 

oldfiver

Well-Known Member
Are they Wankers because they only get 6.5% and their money back when the bond is reissued or because they could have got 10% with SISU/CCFC and no chance of there money back ?

The first 2 years of "interest" was paid by the original investors themselves
A sum was set aside from the initial funding to make the payments
Until the investors sell their bonds or they are repaid they have actually not received those 2 years interest payments
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
You can pay off your mortgage then?
Not really the same is it? It would be like buying a house for £250K and the bank giving you a £2m mortgage!

We know lots of businesses survive on credit but a lot also go out of business and nobody knows how things will stand when they need to renew the bonds, will be interesting if they fail to meet the conditions of the bonds and the valuation, and lack of the required second valuation, has never sat well with me.

Its certainly not Wasps about to go out of business but it would be naïve to suggest its all plain sailing for them.
What about when the bubble bursts and a few people don't go anymore.
This is why its in Wasps advantage to suppress CCFC. Increase costs at the Ricoh alongside a poorer matchday experience is of benefit to Wasps. In the unlikely event we got back to the Championship or PL it would inevitably have an impact on Wasps both in terms of attendance and local sponsors.

All this makes me wonder what will be revealed next. The two most recent articles from the CT don't really sit with the message they have been pushing for the last couple of years - why the change?
 

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Why are you making out they get deleted or moved to a different site? It goes to a sub forum FFS.

Not making out anything. That's exactly what I mean the sub forum FFS.
Much better off having it here in the main section where everyone reads.
As long as it in someway may affect CCFC. Such as Wasps accounts, sponsorship deals marketing ideas that CCFC could use. Especially those who think Wasps will go bust and we are waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces.
I get news about Wasps scores or who they sign not been here.
 

Nick

Administrator
Not making out anything. That's exactly what I mean the sub forum FFS.
Much better off having it here in the main section where everyone reads.
As long as it in someway may affect CCFC. Such as Wasps accounts, sponsorship deals marketing ideas that CCFC could use. Especially those who think Wasps will go bust and we are waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces.
I get news about Wasps scores or who they sign not been here.

Yes, it goes to a sub forum on the same site. If people want to read it they will. It's how forums work.
 

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Yes, it goes to a sub forum on the same site. If people want to read it they will. It's how forums work.

More people will be on this today discussing it, than if you knew beforehand and tucked it away in the sub forum.
I accept a lot of the discussion is on Gilbert's build up. However more discussion is now stimulated and us about the actual finances.
If this was known to be about the finances and Wasps straight away and put in the sub section, there will be many who would not even know it is there.
 

Nick

Administrator
More people will be on this today discussing it, than if you knew beforehand and tucked it away in the sub forum.
I accept a lot of the discussion is on Gilbert's build up. However more discussion is now stimulated and us about the actual finances.
If this was known to be about the finances and Wasps straight away and put in the sub section, there will be many who would not even know it is there.

Yes, and that's the whole idea of sections of a forum. The same as off topic stuff goes in off topic and other football goes in that section.

Probably stick to waffling on about Robins.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Not making out anything. That's exactly what I mean the sub forum FFS.
Much better off having it here in the main section where everyone reads.
As long as it in someway may affect CCFC. Such as Wasps accounts, sponsorship deals marketing ideas that CCFC could use. Especially those who think Wasps will go bust and we are waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces.
I get news about Wasps scores or who they sign not been here.

Zzzzzzzzz
 

Nick

Administrator
It's a good way to deflect the fact that it's no news for Dongo to start going on about the section it's in though isn't it ;)
 

skybluebeduff

Well-Known Member
raw
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
Not really the same is it? It would be like buying a house for £250K and the bank giving you a £2m mortgage!

We know lots of businesses survive on credit but a lot also go out of business and nobody knows how things will stand when they need to renew the bonds, will be interesting if they fail to meet the conditions of the bonds and the valuation, and lack of the required second valuation, has never sat well with me.

Its certainly not Wasps about to go out of business but it would be naïve to suggest its all plain sailing for them.

This is why its in Wasps advantage to suppress CCFC. Increase costs at the Ricoh alongside a poorer matchday experience is of benefit to Wasps. In the unlikely event we got back to the Championship or PL it would inevitably have an impact on Wasps both in terms of attendance and local sponsors.

All this makes me wonder what will be revealed next. The two most recent articles from the CT don't really sit with the message they have been pushing for the last couple of years - why the change?


As the chief says they are making the matchday experience poor with over zealous stewards etc, the biggest problem for The London team would be us getting into the higher leagues as nobody would be interested in their little pastime, luckily for them we have Sisu helping them drive the experience down as well.
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
They'll just refinance it.
As long as they can pay the high interest rate investors will continue to be happy.

Unless Financial markets give it a low (poor rating) as a risk to get your money back and then people will invest elsewhere. Have seen it happen and follow these events with my onw investments. You will try to bat this off, but if its the case it doesn't bode well for Wasps...... Good!
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
That's not a financial answer though.
Financially they are better off here than Wycombe, surely ?


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Depends on the debt. Depends if they can pay it back.
Getting low attendances but being solvent is better than a big shiny stadium, loads of free tickets and tacky flags and being insolvent, isn't it.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Depends on the debt. Depends if they can pay it back.
Getting low attendances but being solvent is better than a big shiny stadium, loads of free tickets and tacky flags and being insolvent, isn't it.

Yes loving watching CCFC at the moment and hating watching Wasps


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Astute

Well-Known Member
That's not a financial answer though.
Financially they are better off here than Wycombe, surely ?
Depends which way you look at it.

It was better for Richardson. He took 10m out of the money raised from what he had loaned to Wasps. But they were much closer to their own supporters. And was it costing them 2m in interest alone each year? On top of that it is losing them money. In 2022 they will still owe what they owe now after paying 2m a year.

It might be theirs. But they still need to pay for it.
 

RegTheDonk

Well-Known Member
Don't understand the finances one bit...but if they can't pay now and have to re-finance at some point, when they are currently aruguably the best side in the country in their particular field, what hope have they for a bright future? Surely in stature and standing, the amount of people supporting them and buying their merchandise, it can't get much better than it currently is?
 

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