Rumour: Hoffman and Elliot takeover negotiations (7 Viewers)

Nick

Administrator
So what do you think SISU should be paid for the debt that was largely created through their mismanagement of CCFC? You obviously feel it's worth something otherwise you wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. Do you feel they deserve more or less than they paid for the investment originally even though what's left of that original investment is considerably less valuable than what they started with?

It's not about what I think, it's about what they will accept.

I don't know what figure they have as a minimum.

They keep repeating about the debt / investment so surely they want something for it. It can't just be ignored with an offer can it, which is why I asked would it be an offer for no debt or a % in the pound offer. The debt will need to be acknowledged in one way or the other with any deal.

It needs to be more than they can get liquidating and selling all the players / ryton or close to it.
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Forget the debt? You'd have a shock when you took over for £1 and had to start servicing that debt you'd ignored.

Sisu will need to take a loss on the debt. Like everybody did when they took over.
They will do well to take this as an opportunity to get out and keep this within reason.
 

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Sisu will need to take a loss on the debt. Like everybody did when they took over.
They will do well to take this as an opportunity to get out and keep this within reason.

Difference between loss and total loss - didn't SISU pay about 7/8m to make old debt go away?
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
It's a negotiation.

500k is clearly stupid but they've opened extreme and made a huge drama out of it in the media to apply pressure.
At least there are talks, but I'd question how effective this whole public stir will be when SISU clearly don't give a shit. A lot more at risk than to gain if I'm honest...if it comes to nothing everyone is really really pissed (and let's face it we don't have the most resistant fan base to this kind of shit...), and if it comes to something then the media attention won't have caused it....
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
It's not about what I think, it's about what they will accept.

I don't know what figure they have as a minimum.

They keep repeating about the debt / investment so surely they want something for it. It can't just be ignored with an offer can it, which is why I asked would it be an offer for no debt or a % in the pound offer. The debt will need to be acknowledged in one way or the other with any deal.

It needs to be more than they can get liquidating and selling all the players / ryton or close to it.

You're allowed an opinion. I'm not Grendull. I won't hold it against you claiming you said it was fact. I'll happily give you my opinion.

In my opinion the club is worth a quid.

The SISU debt which I believe is around £28M is worthless. Tough luck SISU, it's your mess, you take the hit.

The Arvo debt which I think is around the £7M mark is held against against the asset of the club. How much that is worth depends on what assets you're getting for your quid. If Ryton is included there is clearly a value there and a settlement must be reached, players under contract are the only other real asset and again a settlement will need to be reached. So depending on what's included depends on what percentage and it would be a percentage of Arvo's debt is settled, whatever is left Arvo will have to take a hit on.

I don't know what assets were included in the bid and I don't know what the add ons were but I don't think anyone interested in the club should feel obliged to help SISU and Arvo out of the mess they've help create. SISU and Arvo should be obliged to sell though and give someone else a chance to rebuild the club. They certainly aren't going to rebuild it and they certainly don't deserve our blessing to hang around until someone is willing to help them out. If for no other reason than they're not out there, it's never going to happen.

Sometimes the best offer is the one you've got in front of you and like I said earlier, this might be as good as it gets for SISU. Selling at the bottom of the cycle is the only option they'll ever have and the longer they're here the deeper that bottom will get.

(edit)

Just to add. If they liquidate don't the players become free agents as the club they have their contracts with no longer exists so therefore neither do their contracts?
 
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Rodders1

Well-Known Member
It's a negotiation.

500k is clearly stupid but they've opened extreme and made a huge drama out of it in the media to apply pressure.
At least there are talks, but I'd question how effective this whole public stir will be when SISU clearly don't give a shit. A lot more at risk than to gain if I'm honest...if it comes to nothing everyone is really really pissed (and let's face it we don't have the most resistant fan base to this kind of shit...), and if it comes to something then the media attention won't have caused it....
Bloody hope that it was a deliberate low bid. £500k plus £250k for promotions was never gonna work. I mean we could get that from selling some of the squad this summer.

Really hope they have a much higher fund to offer. Not sure what that needs to be but the fact that millions wasn't even mentioned in the first bid doesn't bode well!
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Italia - when are Wasps going to show their hand and when will you really be honest to what actually is going on here?
 

Nick

Administrator
Sisu will need to take a loss on the debt. Like everybody did when they took over.
They will do well to take this as an opportunity to get out and keep this within reason.

Nobody has said they should get shit loads and every penny.

It's just been asked where does it come into it with the offer.

Unless they offered 500k with no debt?
 

Nick

Administrator
You're allowed an opinion. I'm not Grendull. I won't hold it against you claiming you said it was fact. I'll happily give you my opinion.

In my opinion the club is worth a quid.

The SISU debt which I believe is around £28M is worthless. Tough luck SISU, it's your mess, you take the hit.

They aren't going to though are they? The same as ACL didn't and not many others do. Wouldn't they get more liquidating?

You say people won't be obliged to help SISU out of the club but they should be obliged to sell? They will need to be helped out and given a way out before they go.

Maybe take a step back and have a look at it realistically. I'd love them to give the club over for a quid and everything live happily ever after, but I think the night I have planned for Hill is more realistic isn't it?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
What do you think is going on?

What you first need to think is where would Italia be drip fed this information?

What are wasps missing?

What do wasps need to complete what's missing?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
It is not being made ALL about Wasps is it...
Not at all, but if they are involved that is a very important detail. Given that they've stated they are a property development company with a rugby club on the side where do you think we would come on their list of priorities?
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
Nobody has said they should get shit loads and every penny.

It's just been asked where does it come into it with the offer.

Unless they offered 500k with no debt?

I asked you last night, and I'll ask you again, what would you have said would be a legit/reasonable bid?

I don't think £500k is reasonable, but on the other hand, the club (minus Ryton) is effectively worthless so £500k for something worth nothing isn't as much a joke as people are making out.
 

Nick

Administrator
Not at all, but if they are involved that is a very important detail. Given that they've stated they are a property development company with a rugby club on the side where do you think we would come on their list of priorities?

More will come out in the PR games I'd bet.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
He has been honest, he pretty much told you a bid was coming and it ended up being true?

Well.....lets see especially as the bid arrived three days before he said it was coming.

Italia - what is wasps involvement in this?
 

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
Not at all, but if they are involved that is a very important detail. Given that they've stated they are a property development company with a rugby club on the side where do you think we would come on their list of priorities?

Where?

(Genuine question)
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
You seem pissed off to not be in the loop..

Wait like all the rest of us are doing.

Who says I'm not in the loop? This really isn't rocket science.
 

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