The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (27 Viewers)

[martcov]

In some people's view yes. The silent majority might not think it a cock up but just have more faith in the civil servants that work on the strategy of gaining the best possible deal for the country. Given that the nation decided by vote or abstinence to leave the EU.

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The so called silent majority have inflicted a home defeat on the UK with a massive own goal. The others see a disorganized internally fighting government at odds with each other trying to carry out a stupid mandate which they don’t actually agree with. Chances of a successful outcome = 0.

 

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[Astute]

When have I said that immigrants tend to work in lower paid jobs? I've consistently said they benefit the economy. As usual you're making it up as you go along and twist everything to attack the EU and working migrants.

The irony of your post is not lost though.

So we won't starve without them because our fruit won't get picked?

They don't do the jobs that the British won't get out of bed to do?

They don't work in hospitality where the hours are long and pay is crap?

There you go. Three things straight away that your record got stuck on. And now you are saying that immigrants come here and they all have well paid jobs so they don't have to live in the worse parts of London.

Or is is because you failed yet again at insulting me trying to make out that I said immigrants have caused slum areas in London. Nearly as bad as when you tried to say that I blamed your parents and partner for the whole housing crisis.

I understand where you are coming from. You are a son of migrants. Your partner is fron Italy. Do you think it is just you? Mart agrees with just about any crap you come out with. Strangely enough he doesn't live here. But we all have come from migrants. We have been a nation where people have moved to for hundreds of years. My mothers side of the family has many nationalities over the years. But that doesn't make me blind to the truth. It doesn't make me want to try and insult you to try and make a point.

 

[Astute]

Either way I would rather live in Verona to he honest. I would get my fix of pain and humiliation a few times a year at least still.

Verona is a nice place. If you prefer it there what are you doing here?

 

[Astute]

To form a government she has to have a coalition. The liberals and greens have over 20% between them. There are also a few % from the CSU. If they agree to form a government they have more than 50% and Merkel is chancellor - which is likely. If not it’s new elections.

You won't accept a majority vote here. You didn't accept the Tories here very nearly getting the majority vote. But you are willing to accept Merkel only getting a third of the votes and needing 4 parties to join her to make a coalition government.

 

[Astute]

Not to the devastating extent that has been claimed on this thread, no. Especially not in Brighton, which we were discussing earlier.

How many people have come to live here since 2000?

How many homeless people do we have?


Yes you will ignore this or make up more lies. Like now you are saying that all immigrants make a lot of money so they don't have to live in the worse parts of London.

 

[Astute]

Housing is a profitable business over a longer period. It could bring returns. The need is now. After Brexit the pressure will be off- according to Astute and co..

Is that right?

The government doesn't build houses. It was the job of local councils.

The pressure wouldn't be off for many years even if nobody else came here to live. Each local council has a waiting list of thousands. And most people are not allowed to join the list as they are seen as low priority. Birth rates are very high as people coming here are mainly at an age where it is natural to have their own family. Adding the lower average these days of a quarter of a million coming here each year certainly makes the situation worse.

I would love someone to explain to me how our population going up by about half a million each year has no effect on the homeless situation.

 

[Astute]

No. It’s almost like all government failures were blamed on the EU and Brexit happened.

There are many reasons. Not everyone voted leave for the same reason.

But you don't do like for like.

We would have had the racist vote. You call them wankers. Your country Germany had many more of the racist vote. You call thèm insignificant.

As I have said before it was Juncker opening his gob that got the leave vote. Cameron said there was talks on getting a deal. Juncker came straight out and said there were no talks planned and none in sight. They were not going to happen.

 

[Astute]

The so called silent majority have inflicted a home defeat on the UK with a massive own goal. The others see a disorganized internally fighting government at odds with each other trying to carry out a stupid mandate which they don’t actually agree with. Chances of a successful outcome = 0.

How about dealing with facts Mart?

Zero chance? What do you know that nobody else knows? I understand that Germany needs us in the EU. Between us we carry most of the EU countries and pay an astronomical sum to keep the EU bureaucratic systems going. Without us where is the money going to come from? It won't come from tariffs. We are a major importer from the EU. We import twice what we export. So why would the EU say no deals at all?

This posturing is what many expected. How many German cars will we buy if the price goes up by say 20%?

Many EU countries rely on the UK. The EU knows this. So they would have to pump in many more billions to make up for this. But where will it come from when they already have to make up for the approximate 175 million net a week that we won't be putting in?

We need to prepare for no deal. Fail to prepare...prepare to fail. But nobody would come out best with a no deal. It would only happen through spite and the EU not wanting anyone leaving to do well.

UK exports to the EU surge on weaker pound

 

[Astute]

Not to the devastating extent that has been claimed on this thread, no. Especially not in Brighton, which we were discussing earlier.

Homes target may never be met, warns housing guru

Ludicrous?

 

[martcov]

You won't accept a majority vote here. You didn't accept the Tories here very nearly getting the majority vote. But you are willing to accept Merkel only getting a third of the votes and needing 4 parties to join her to make a coalition government.

We have proportional representation here. It is rare that anyone wins outright. Are you saying Gernans should never accept an election result because no one wins outright? Germany is far more democratic than the UK, and for that reason we don’t have national referenda - they are too easy for populists to manipulate and can lead to situations as the present situation in the UK.

 

[martcov]

How about dealing with facts Mart?

Zero chance? What do you know that nobody else knows? I understand that Germany needs us in the EU. Between us we carry most of the EU countries and pay an astronomical sum to keep the EU bureaucratic systems going. Without us where is the money going to come from? It won't come from tariffs. We are a major importer from the EU. We import twice what we export. So why would the EU say no deals at all?

This posturing is what many expected. How many German cars will we buy if the price goes up by say 20%?

Many EU countries rely on the UK. The EU knows this. So they would have to pump in many more billions to make up for this. But where will it come from when they already have to make up for the approximate 175 million net a week that we won't be putting in?

We need to prepare for no deal. Fail to prepare...prepare to fail. But nobody would come out best with a no deal. It would only happen through spite and the EU not wanting anyone leaving to do well.

UK exports to the EU surge on weaker pound

The weaker pound is good for me and many others. Watching city has become cheaper for example. The beer and cider that I import from the UK is in effect cheaper. I am still not in favour of the UK leaving as I am not that selfish. Crashing the UK is not good for the UK or EU - I agree on that. I don’t see Brexit as the only solution to all UK problems and certainly don’t think it is the best solution.

 

[Astute]

We have proportional representation here. It is rare that anyone wins outright. Are you saying Gernans should never accept an election result because no one wins outright? Germany is far more democratic than the UK, and for that reason we don’t have national referenda - they are too easy for populists to manipulate and can lead to situations as the present situation in the UK.

Whichever way you put it Merkel only got a third of the vote. You would have had an orgasm if May only got a third of the vote here.

 

[Astute]

The weaker pound is good for me and many others. Watching city has become cheaper for example. The beer and cider that I import from the UK is in effect cheaper. I am still not in favour of the UK leaving as I am not that selfish. Crashing the UK is not good for the UK or EU - I agree on that. I don’t see Brexit as the only solution to all UK problems and certainly don’t think it is the best solution.

I agree.

But what other way is there to help our homeless other than building a new town on top of what we already build just to slowly catch up with where we are now?

Then we come back to the Euro and countries like Greece. Their currency is linked to Germany. If their currency could devalue when needed their goods would be cheaper. It would be cheaper to visit so they would get more visitors. Hey ho.

 

[martcov]

There are many reasons. Not everyone voted leave for the same reason.

But you don't do like for like.

We would have had the racist vote. You call them wankers. Your country Germany had many more of the racist vote. You call thèm insignificant.

As I have said before it was Juncker opening his gob that got the leave vote. Cameron said there was talks on getting a deal. Juncker came straight out and said there were no talks planned and none in sight. They were not going to happen.

Britain is not a disaster area and was doing well when we voted for Brexit. It was a leading EU country. The problem was not Britain‘s economy, but wealth distribution, infrastructure not keeping up with the amount of traffic, not enough housing and real wages not rising for the poor etc etc.. The attention was directed away from the failings of various governments and pushed on to the EU and in particular certain EU figures were portrayed by the gutter press as pantomime villains. Juncker and Merkel being the favourites. Now we have a situation which will be bad for everyone and a government which is aware of this, trying to negotiate whilst it’s own members are fighting for their own agendas in a hope to gain power out of the resulting chaos. A cock up. We will be out of the EU and Juncket and Merkel won’t be in any form of power in 10 years. Then we will see who is at fault for the UKs ills.

 

[martcov]

Whichever way you put it Merkel only got a third of the vote. You would have had an orgasm if May only got a third of the vote here.

As I say, you cannot compare.

 

[martcov]

Is that right?

The government doesn't build houses. It was the job of local councils.

The pressure wouldn't be off for many years even if nobody else came here to live. Each local council has a waiting list of thousands. And most people are not allowed to join the list as they are seen as low priority. Birth rates are very high as people coming here are mainly at an age where it is natural to have their own family. Adding the lower average these days of a quarter of a million coming here each year certainly makes the situation worse.

I would love someone to explain to me how our population going up by about half a million each year has no effect on the homeless situation.

How many houses has local government built in the last 10 years according to the graph? Has Juncker anything to do with council housing policy?

 

[martcov]

I agree.

But what other way is there to help our homeless other than building a new town on top of what we already build just to slowly catch up with where we are now?

Then we come back to the Euro and countries like Greece. Their currency is linked to Germany. If their currency could devalue when needed their goods would be cheaper. It would be cheaper to visit so they would get more visitors. Hey ho.

Er no... they would as a nation be poorer, could not repay their debt in Euros and imports would cost more. Cheap holidays for some though..;-)

 

[martcov]

Whichever way you put it Merkel only got a third of the vote. You would have had an orgasm if May only got a third of the vote here.

She got 33,8 in 2009 and the SPD 23%. They formed a coalition. This time the SPD got 20% and refused to join a coalition ( which may be a tactic in the hope that the Jamaica coalition doesn’t happen and Merkel is left in a weak position and than they offer to make a deal ). Where was the great Merkel has failed debate in 2009? She got the same result then as now.

 

[Astute]

Britain is not a disaster area and was doing well when we voted for Brexit. It was a leading EU country. The problem was not Britain‘s economy, but wealth distribution, infrastructure not keeping up with the amount of traffic, not enough housing and real wages not rising for the poor etc etc.. The attention was directed away from the failings of various governments and pushed on to the EU and in particular certain EU figures were portrayed by the gutter press as pantomime villains. Juncker and Merkel being the favourites. Now we have a situation which will be bad for everyone and a government which is aware of this, trying to negotiate whilst it’s own members are fighting for their own agendas in a hope to gain power out of the resulting chaos. A cock up. We will be out of the EU and Juncket and Merkel won’t be in any form of power in 10 years. Then we will see who is at fault for the UKs ills.

Not was. Is. And nothing has changed like many remain voters seem to have hoped.

Wealth distribution? Is Germany or any other country in the world different?

Infrastructure? Finally you agree with me. Because of the population boom in the last 17 years our infrastructure can't cope. But how many billions need spending on new roads? How many billions need spending on new hospitals? How many billions need spending on new homes? And that is just a start. And we are already running at a deficit. There is no quick fix.

You are right when you say that not enough money had been invested for years. I have constantly said the same. But the last 17 years has exasperated the problem.

Wages. It is supply and demand. Millions more workers means a massive supply. If you don't have the right trade that has labour shortages there is an over supply. This keeps the wages down.

 

[Astute]

As I say, you cannot compare.

Of course we can. But it doesn't go well with points you have already made.

 

[Sick Boy]

So we won't starve without them because our fruit won't get picked?

They don't do the jobs that the British won't get out of bed to do?

They don't work in hospitality where the hours are long and pay is crap?

There you go. Three things straight away that your record got stuck on. And now you are saying that immigrants come here and they all have well paid jobs so they don't have to live in the worse parts of London.

Or is is because you failed yet again at insulting me trying to make out that I said immigrants have caused slum areas in London. Nearly as bad as when you tried to say that I blamed your parents and partner for the whole housing crisis.

I understand where you are coming from. You are a son of migrants. Your partner is fron Italy. Do you think it is just you? Mart agrees with just about any crap you come out with. Strangely enough he doesn't live here. But we all have come from migrants. We have been a nation where people have moved to for hundreds of years. My mothers side of the family has many nationalities over the years. But that doesn't make me blind to the truth. It doesn't make me want to try and insult you to try and make a point.

When have I insulted you? If anything, I even said to meet up for a beer one day in Italy while you're on your future travels!

 

[Astute]

How many houses has local government built in the last 10 years according to the graph? Has Juncker anything to do with council housing policy?

We haven't built enough houses for years. But having to let anyone from the EU to come and live here has had a massive effect.

Why not reply to the link on the subject I put on this morning?

 

[Astute]

Er no... they would as a nation be poorer, could not repay their debt in Euros and imports would cost more. Cheap holidays for some though..;-)

Which is why I have always said that they are in it far too deep now. And they said the same.

 

[Astute]

She got 33,8 in 2009 and the SPD 23%. They formed a coalition. This time the SPD got 20% and refused to join a coalition ( which may be a tactic in the hope that the Jamaica coalition doesn’t happen and Merkel is left in a weak position and than they offer to make a deal ). Where was the great Merkel has failed debate in 2009? She got the same result then as now.

And what about 2013?

Something has happened to make the voters suddenly dislike her.

 

[Astute]

When have I insulted you? If anything, I even said to meet up for a beer one day in Italy while you're on your future travels!

You have accused me of being racist. You have accused me of blaming your family for the homeless crisis. You have accused me of admiring Farage. And amongst many other things you have done the biggest sin. You accused me of being a Tory.

 

[martcov]

And what about 2013?

Something has happened to make the voters suddenly dislike her.

In all probability she will be the next chancellor. No one else can form a government without her. In other words she is not so disliked that people voted for an alternative chancellor. She is no less liked than 2009. You could have asked why she was so popular in 2013. Many conservatives were disappointed with the amount of power she gave the SPD between 2013 and 2017. She lost the right wing on that. The SPD lost votes because they worked too closely with the conservatives. Nobody wanted a third bout of the Großkoalition of CDU SPD. There was no effective opposition which is necessary in a democracy.

 

[martcov]

Not was. Is. And nothing has changed like many remain voters seem to have hoped.

Wealth distribution? Is Germany or any other country in the world different?

Infrastructure? Finally you agree with me. Because of the population boom in the last 17 years our infrastructure can't cope. But how many billions need spending on new roads? How many billions need spending on new hospitals? How many billions need spending on new homes? And that is just a start. And we are already running at a deficit. There is no quick fix.

You are right when you say that not enough money had been invested for years. I have constantly said the same. But the last 17 years has exasperated the problem.

Wages. It is supply and demand. Millions more workers means a massive supply. If you don't have the right trade that has labour shortages there is an over supply. This keeps the wages down.

Didn’t we have a link showing that wealth distribution in Germany was different?

Infrastructure should always be maintained and the minimum wage strictly enforced.

You say that the economy is still good. Where then is the money tree for these things that you mention? And no it is not in the EU. We get more wealth out than we put in.

Where is the news media pressure to get these things done? I’ll answer that... focused on the justify Brexit at all costs campaign.

 

[martcov]

All bollocks though. A banana is a banana is a banana. Some are big some are small & some are more bendy than others.
Why have no such classifications come out for onions (don't wish to upset the French) or tomatoes?

All bollocks

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FYI: Commission Regulation (EEC) No 2213/83 of 28 July 1983 laying down quality standards for onions and witloof chicory

 

[Astute]

Didn’t we have a link showing that wealth distribution in Germany was different?

Infrastructure should always be maintained and the minimum wage strictly enforced.

You say that the economy is still good. Where then is the money tree for these things that you mention? And no it is not in the EU. We get more wealth out than we put in.

Where is the news media pressure to get these things done? I’ll answer that... focused on the justify Brexit at all costs campaign.

Yes Germany gets much more out than in.

That is the problem. We buy billions more each month from the EU than we sell to it. To be in it costs us about 175m a week net. We sell more to the rest of the world although the EU is on our doorstep.

So where have I ever said that infrastructure shouldn't be kept up? But there is now a massive gap to where it should be. There isn't a magic money tree to pay for everything. I have said the same about the minimum wage.

 

[martcov]

Yes Germany gets much more out than in.

That is the problem. We buy billions more each month from the EU than we sell to it. To be in it costs us about 175m a week net. We sell more to the rest of the world although the EU is on our doorstep.

So where have I ever said that infrastructure shouldn't be kept up? But there is now a massive gap to where it should be. There isn't a magic money tree to pay for everything. I have said the same about the minimum wage.

There is loads of money in the UK. Just no money tree. That is a problem. Never mind blame the EU - whilst we still can. As regards AfD, the next test is 18102017 in Niedersachsen ( Lower Saxony ). Pity their party leader in Saxony has just had his house searched by the police and the DPP. And, no it is not left wingers that have caused this, but his own party colleagues who have accused him of dipping the party till for thousands. Amongst other things he has billed for fictious Tv and computers ... and excessive alcoholic drinks. He has no immunity until 24. October when parliament resumes. It will be a good test of opinion.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

FYI: Commission Regulation (EEC) No 2213/83 of 28 July 1983 laying down quality standards for onions and witloof chicory

Well I stand corrected...but it all amounts to classifying things for the sheer bloody hell of it! A banana is a banana. An onion is an onion. If the buyer chooses to buy to buy it that is up to them. If the buyer is not sufficiently able to make a decision as to whether they are good or bad banana or onion then they should be given help from a carer or good samara tan of somesorts

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[SkyblueBazza]

We have proportional representation here. It is rare that anyone wins outright. Are you saying Gernans should never accept an election result because no one wins outright? Germany is far more democratic than the UK, and for that reason we don’t have national referenda - they are too easy for populists to manipulate and can lead to situations as the present situation in the UK.

But again you piss on your own parade! The EU referendum WAS won outright according to the rules applied beforehand.
YOU & others now seem intent on destroying the democratic process to suit your own selfish needs/wants

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[SkyblueBazza]

The so called silent majority have inflicted a home defeat on the UK with a massive own goal. The others see a disorganized internally fighting government at odds with each other trying to carry out a stupid mandate which they don’t actually agree with. Chances of a successful outcome = 0.

YOU see it as a home defeat/own goal bad decision. You aren't alone. That doesn't make you right.

The process agreed was known by/available to everyone.

Crying over spilt milk is fine but constantly ramming it down people's throats is probably only going to work against you/your arguments.


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[SkyblueBazza]

No. It’s almost like all government failures were blamed on the EU and Brexit happened.

Again - YOU are seeing it through your own blinkers

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[SkyblueBazza]

Why don’t you stand for election? You seem to know a lot..

Because 1. I am not super rich 2. I am not a self serving bastard

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