The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (9 Viewers)

As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%
  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
We need about a million new homes. But with EU rules we would need an extra 6 figure number on top each year. We can't plan for the future whilst following EU rules.

Are you still saying that mass immigration has had no effect on homelessness?

Are you saying that we should gift houses to the homeless (British only, of course?)
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
60 million?

If only.

I will agree that both sides are posturing. It will go to the last minute. We only have to look at CCFC and the Ricoh to see how these things go. We will do a deal with Wasps.... but late in the day. In the meantime there will be talk about the Butts or Hinckley or Nuneaton. At the end we will be at the Ricoh. Same here, there will be talk of 100, 60, 50 million. No deal. Then we’re not talking. Then a mediator, or they meet on the sidelines of an event informally.. and then it’s back on .. at the last minute it is 40 billion Euro.
 
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SIR ERNIE

Well-Known Member
These so called negotiators for the EU really are a joke. It’s obvious that they know they’re on shaky ground regarding the divorce payment.

If they’d had any confidence in their right to demand megabucks, the first thing they’d have done would have been to present the UK team with a bill on day one of the talks that was close to 100% irrefutable. A bill that had been prepared as a result of top EU lawyers scrutinising the agreements between the UK and EU and calculating the UK’s financial liability. A bill that they’d be confident would stand up in court if necessary.

The fact that they still haven’t done that speaks volumes, it tells us and importantly the UK team that the EU position is weak and that the utter clown Barnier is grandstanding.
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
Considering that the EU is on the verge of collapse and a wide range of countries are on the verge of leaving, I'm actually surprised that the EU hasn't tried to get whatever it can and give Britain an incredibly favourable trade deal. It's almost like they won't just roll over and do what we say!!
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
These so called negotiators for the EU really are a joke. It’s obvious that they know they’re on shaky ground regarding the divorce payment.

If they’d had any confidence in their right to demand megabucks, the first thing they’d have done would have been to present the UK team with a bill on day one of the talks that was close to 100% irrefutable. A bill that had been prepared as a result of top EU lawyers scrutinising the agreements between the UK and EU and calculating the UK’s financial liability. A bill that they’d be confident would stand up in court if necessary.

The fact that they still haven’t done that speaks volumes, it tells us and importantly the UK team that the EU position is weak and that the utter clown Barnier is grandstanding.

They have asked us what we think we owe. We have said we will honour our commitments. I don’t know why this cannot be discussed behind closed doors. Barnier must also have a list which he should put on the table.
 

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
They have asked us what we think we owe. We have said we will honour our commitments. I don’t know why this cannot be discussed behind closed doors. Barnier must also have a list which he should put on the table.

They don't have a clue. They are plucking figures out of the sky. There is no detailed bill and no acknowledge we have spent hundred of billions since we joined for "free trade"

What about our stake in the EU buildings that we helped fund and what about us having a massive trade decifict with the EU. We buy around double what we sell them.

Just like a dodgy TV. They should be paying us our money back and we get the hell out there.
 

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
Yea it is all Ireland's fault that Britain is leaving the EU.
You were talking about the problems in Ireland. So I thought I would too.
The fear about returning to violence is not of Britain as a whole becoming violent - just the Irish (NI & ROI)! They don't need to return to violence...some rhetoric suggests a desire to encourage it though...like on QT tonight talking about 'hard borders'

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
They don't have a clue. They are plucking figures out of the sky. There is no detailed bill and no acknowledge we have spent hundred of billions since we joined for "free trade"

What about our stake in the EU buildings that we helped fund and what about us having a massive trade decifict with the EU. We buy around double what we sell them.

Just like a dodgy TV. They should be paying us our money back and we get the hell out there.

Would you say at some time that when you leave a club you want your membership fees back? Or your ST money back for the last 20 years if you stop supporting CCFC? That is past tense.

The trade deficit is not money you get back at some future time.

The buildings should be deducted from the bill.
 

SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
Well the north voted remain and the south didn’t get a vote. Not sure how you could say that this is down to the Irish, whichever side of the border they’re from.
As I have already said...SB mentioned the problems in Ireland. By that I read 'troubles' - & some are using Brexit to suggest 'troubles' could start again - THAT would be a problem, the rhetoric using such veiled threats is a problem too. Brexit itself is no reason to take up arms

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
You were talking about the problems in Ireland. So I thought I would too.
The fear about returning to violence is not of Britain as a whole becoming violent - just the Irish (NI & ROI)! They don't need to return to violence...some rhetoric suggests a desire to encourage it though...like on QT tonight talking about 'hard borders'

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

No one in Ireland deserves this. We have a GFA which assumes we are in the EU. By leaving we’re breaking the agreement. There may well be violence if there is a hard border. The Brexiteers caused this problem. The government could solve the problem by leaving NI in the Customs Union as suggested by the EU. But, they cannot because they are reliant on the DUP.
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
As I have already said...SB mentioned the problems in Ireland. By that I read 'troubles' - & some are using Brexit to suggest 'troubles' could start again - THAT would be a problem, the rhetoric using such veiled threats is a problem too. Brexit itself is no reason to take up arms

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Yes it is...or rather could be construed as a reason. Brexit is certainly a reason for being discontent.
 

Kingokings204

Well-Known Member
Would you say at some time that when you leave a club you want your membership fees back? Or your ST money back for the last 20 years if you stop supporting CCFC? That is past tense.

The trade deficit is not money you get back at some future time.

The buildings should be deducted from the bill.

Fine. I just don't think the bill is being fairly accounted for and the EU as we know are all about money and the UK want a trade deal. The EU want the divorce bill settling before trade talks can take place.

Seems a bit rich to me when we buy more than we sell. I agree the UK should pay its legal amount (whatever the frig that is) and not a penny piece more.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
I will agree that both sides are posturing. It will go to the last minute. We only have to look at CCFC and the Ricoh to see how these things go. We will do a deal with Wasps.... but late in the day. In the meantime there will be talk about the Butts or Hinckley or Nuneaton. At the end we will be at the Ricoh. Same here, there will be talk of 100, 60, 50 million. No deal. Then we’re not talking. Then a mediator, or they meet on the sidelines of an event informally.. and then it’s back on .. at the last minute it is 40 Million Euro.
A decent post ruined by the last line.

I say again. It isn't millions of Euro's they are after. It is billions.

The EU divorce bill

Hope this explains it to you a bit.
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
They don't have a clue. They are plucking figures out of the sky. There is no detailed bill and no acknowledge we have spent hundred of billions since we joined for "free trade"

What about our stake in the EU buildings that we helped fund and what about us having a massive trade decifict with the EU. We buy around double what we sell them.

Just like a dodgy TV. They should be paying us our money back and we get the hell out there.
We have paid over half a trillion pounds into the EU project over the years. Yes over 500,000,000,000 pounds.

Now we have a divorce to pay for a marriage we didn't walk down the aisle to.

When the 2015 EU accounts were drawn up, outstanding loans to Hungary, Ireland, Portugal and Ukraine collectively amounted to €49.5 billion. The EU’s latest approach asks the UK to make a lump-sum payment upfront to cover these liabilities, in case they materialise in the future. This increases the upfront divorce bill by €9–12 billion.
 
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Astute

Well-Known Member
Would you say at some time that when you leave a club you want your membership fees back? Or your ST money back for the last 20 years if you stop supporting CCFC? That is past tense.

The trade deficit is not money you get back at some future time.

The buildings should be deducted from the bill.
Would you like to pay for your ST for many years after you stop going? Would you be happy if you had to pay for dodgy loans that SISU had made?

And they are saying that we own nothing of the EU structure even though we paid for a lot of it.

Then you wonder why a deal is nowhere near close.
 
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Astute

Well-Known Member
No one in Ireland deserves this. We have a GFA which assumes we are in the EU. By leaving we’re breaking the agreement. There may well be violence if there is a hard border. The Brexiteers caused this problem. The government could solve the problem by leaving NI in the Customs Union as suggested by the EU. But, they cannot because they are reliant on the DUP.
Try to not look at it through pro EU goggles.

Ireland should be treated as one country. Nobody should want any risk of past atrocities returning. So who wants a hard border splitting the country into two?

The UK certainly doesn't want a hard border. I would love to see the day that Ireland could be fully united. Just like what happened with Germany.

So who holds all the cards on how borders will look like? It certainly isn't the Irish or the UK government.

Yet you try and blame it all on those who voted to leave.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
So the UK would have to open borders to everyone that lives in India but the EU wouldn't?

they're not asking for an open border but an easing of visa requirements, (I think mainly for people who want to study in the UK).
I don't know what the current criteria for an Indian citizen to get into other EU countries is but this would be a separate arrangement in the same way any post Brexit trade deal we sign would be separate from the EU.
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
You were talking about the problems in Ireland. So I thought I would too.
The fear about returning to violence is not of Britain as a whole becoming violent - just the Irish (NI & ROI)! They don't need to return to violence...some rhetoric suggests a desire to encourage it though...like on QT tonight talking about 'hard borders'

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

I was referring to Brexit. It's a bit strange after all the talk of the borders being tightened up, yet now it now appears that the open border policy with the EU is fine?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
they're not asking for an open border but an easing of visa requirements, (I think mainly for people who want to study in the UK).
I don't know what the current criteria for an Indian citizen to get into other EU countries is but this would be a separate arrangement in the same way any post Brexit trade deal we sign would be separate from the EU.
Look back at what has been said. Stated as though India wants open borders for a trade deal.

English is clearly the second most spoken language in India. And they have a lot. About an eighth of the Indian population can speak in English. No other European language even registers there.

Saying that more go to Germany than here. They take English spoken degrees there. And the courses are free.
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
Try to not look at it through pro EU goggles.

Ireland should be treated as one country. Nobody should want any risk of past atrocities returning. So who wants a hard border splitting the country into two?

The UK certainly doesn't want a hard border. I would love to see the day that Ireland could be fully united. Just like what happened with Germany.

So who holds all the cards on how borders will look like? It certainly isn't the Irish or the UK government.

Yet you try and blame it all on those who voted to leave.

In am ideal world NI would remain in the Customs Union but the DUP aren't going to allow that to happen, therefore a hard border is likely.

It is inevitable that the UK will deregulate, I can't see the Irish being happy with an open border in that circumstance. Of course, it's all the EU's fault. It's also strange that you are now all for open borders with the EU?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
I was referring to Brexit. It's a bit strange after all the talk of the borders being tightened up, yet now it now appears that the open border policy with the EU is fine?
So one size fits all?

Would you be happy for Ireland to be split into two again?
 

Astute

Well-Known Member
In am ideal world NI would remain in the Customs Union but the DUP aren't going to allow that to happen, therefore a hard border is likely.

It is inevitable that the UK will deregulate, I can't see the Irish being happy with an open border in that circumstance. Of course, it's all the EU's fault. It's also strange that you are now all for open borders with the EU?
So trade borders and freedom of movement for residents is the same?

As I have said countless times I am not against migration. But I am against total freedom of migration where you can move without funds, a job and somewhere to live. You don't need any skills that are needed. All you need is an EU passport.

Good in principle. Not good for countries planning for the future.
 

Sick Boy

Well-Known Member
So trade borders and freedom of movement for residents is the same?

As I have said countless times I am not against migration. But I am against total freedom of migration where you can move without funds, a job and somewhere to live. You don't need any skills that are needed. All you need is an EU passport.

Good in principle. Not good for countries planning for the future.

As I said, if the UK leaves the customs union along with NI it's inevitably going to bring about a hard border unless the UK maintains EU standards. This is of the UK's making.
 

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Look back at what has been said. Stated as though India wants open borders for a trade deal.

English is clearly the second most spoken language in India. And they have a lot. About an eighth of the Indian population can speak in English. No other European language even registers there.

Saying that more go to Germany than here. They take English spoken degrees there. And the courses are free.

Here's what Tony said:

"Will we be able to make a free trade agreement with India without relaxing control of our border with India beyond what it is currently as an EU member state?"

He was talking about relaxation of the border not open border, that's what India want in return for a favourable trade deal and stated so during Mays visit.
 

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