Wasps bid for Ricoh Arena valued at £30million (2 Viewers)

[Nick]

Apart from here you mean? http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/wasps-ricoh-arena-interest-concern-7805937

I've tried several times to get on the record comment from CRC, Wasps and CCFC - neither wish to speak with us. I can't force them to comment or take a stance and, if they won't, how can we report it?

Apologies, hasnt seen that. When does the hashtag campaign start?

 

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[oldskyblue58]

was saying that it made sense for CCC and AEHC to sell up that it was an excellent deal for them. That it didn't mean that CCFC had to go. That there were opportunities for CCFC to do a longer deal that got them income streams including shares in naming rights and sponsorship. That it was the income streams that were important not the ownership. That there was an opportunity for Wasps and CCFC to work together that would benefit both. That stadiums had to be used more than 23 days a year and were capable of greater use. That there were deals to be done if both sides (Wasps and CCFC) wanted it ..... in fact that a partnership between the two of some kind was a good solution

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Fed up with this. WASPS are a smaller entity than CCFC but due to better strategic management are in a position to buy ACL, SISU had the opportunity but their tactics failed. Had SISU got the Ricoh could sign the club to a large onerous lease and head off into the sunset don't trust them never will. Life under WASPS as the landlord will be frustrating as CCFC will be helping to fund a rugby club but that's what happens when your tactic is to distress rather than commercially negotiate. Talking to rugger buggars and a director of Cov rugby views vary but many believe Cov RFC is a joke and has been going nowhere for years (ownership of the Butts Park Arena is still unclear) these rugby fans would watch Wasps and if you consider the rest of the West Midlands this Ricoh is a lot closer than Worcester Lestor or Northampton.

Bought a ST Saturday was awful this is worse but still hoping the Council consider the impact on the club.

 

[Otis]

Your obviously not very bright when all you can do is name call when confronted with the truth. Yours are not the responses of a real man !

Err, shouldn't that be 'You're obviously not very bright?'

 

[Otis]

was saying that it made sense for CCC and AEHC to sell up that it was an excellent deal for them. That it didn't mean that CCFC had to go. That there were opportunities for CCFC to do a longer deal that got them income streams including shares in naming rights and sponsorship. That it was the income streams that were important not the ownership. That there was an opportunity for Wasps and CCFC to work together that would benefit both. That stadiums had to be used more than 23 days a year and were capable of greater use. That there were deals to be done if both sides (Wasps and CCFC) wanted it ..... in fact that a partnership between the two of some kind was a good solution

But if Wasps own it and we just rent it and they do turn all the seats to yellow and black, it's not going to feel at all like our stadium is it.

 

[oldskyblue58]

But if Wasps own it and we just rent it and they do turn all the seats to yellow and black, it's not going to feel at all like our stadium is it.

no Otis it isn't but its still an IF. Would they change the seat colours though? Would they even take the badges down? Could Wasps change their colours? Which brings in the bigger footfall? Could both negotiate something that suits both?

 

[chiefdave]

I also fail to see how this will effect CCFC unless the the current two year rental +two year option is off the table.
I would like someone to explain ?

Wasps would be taking over ACL, apart from 10% the council would retain, so the current contract we have will still be valid. The issue comes at the end of that contract.I

f, as Fisher keeps saying, we are building our own stadium then there will be no change to the current plan. If anything this could help as it would mean there is little reason for CCC to object to our new stadium being built within the city.

However the problem comes if, as most people suspect, Fisher is not being entirely truthful and there is no new stadium. If that happens then we simply don't know what would happen, it could be that by dealing with someone new without all the bad history we get a better deal than we've ever had, equally it could be that we get a much worse deal than we had when we first move, or in a worst case scenario Wasps could choose not to even consider a new deal.

 

[chiefdave]

no Otis it isn't but its still an IF. Would they change the seat colours though? Would they even take the badges down? Could Wasps change their colours? Which brings in the bigger footfall? Could both negotiate something that suits both?

We don't even know for a fact Wasps would move there, it could be they see it as a good investment and will use it only for Euro games. We simply don't know.

Similarly we don't know what, if any, deal would be offered to us if Wasps were to take ownership, for all we know we could get a much better deal, equally we could get a much worse deal or none at all.

Maybe Wasps will change their away kit to their home kit, then they wouldn't need to change the seat colour!

 

[chiefdave]

Interesting listening to CWR at the mo. Wasps fans dead against.

So going off your post time was he on around 9:20? Will listen on catch up.

Any mention of them coming up for the protest and what sort of numbers they might bring?

 

[oldskyblue58]

If SISU/CCFC & Wasps negotiated a deal that provided long term security ie a long lease and gave better access to income streams, or provided opportunities to create their own at the Ricoh is that better or worse for CCFC?

Heart still doesn't like this (franchise club, not anchor tenant etc) but head says there are opportunities to improve things for CCFC that could be there - that's not saying that will happen though

One way you could look at it is to focus simply on CCFC (not Wasps, SISU, ACL, CCC AEHC) ........ if CCFC ended up with a long term lease with better access to the income streams it brings in (including share of naming rights, sponsorship and advertising) is CCFC better off with that or what they have now ? or even better off than with bearing the costs of a new build?

We don't know what is on offer if anything - that's the problem

If this was just some finance group buying ACL that wasn't bringing another sports franchise then would there be half the furore going on? It would just be a change of landlord wouldn't it?

 

[wingy]

I think It's telling that SISU returned the Club to the Stadium ,whilst having knowledge of these moves ,suggests Involvement of some sort to me.

 

[torchomatic]

True. Telling also that CCC are taking our "first refusal" offer for Higgs out of the equation. Shadiness on both sides.

I think It's telling that SISU returned the Club to the Stadium ,whilst having knowledge of these moves ,suggests Involvement of some sort to me.

 

[Limey]

Probably an old question, but we don't know for sure that this is a 'wasps' takeover do we? We only know that the wasps owner is involved, but to what degree??

 

[skybluetony176]

was saying that it made sense for CCC and AEHC to sell up that it was an excellent deal for them. That it didn't mean that CCFC had to go. That there were opportunities for CCFC to do a longer deal that got them income streams including shares in naming rights and sponsorship. That it was the income streams that were important not the ownership. That there was an opportunity for Wasps and CCFC to work together that would benefit both. That stadiums had to be used more than 23 days a year and were capable of greater use. That there were deals to be done if both sides (Wasps and CCFC) wanted it ..... in fact that a partnership between the two of some kind was a good solution

The guys an idiot. Tim Mastermind Fisher has clearly stated that every football finance expert in the universe agrees with SISU that a club MUST own its ground. Who is this chancer

 

[oldskyblue58]

Thing is did SISU have knowledge or did they become aware when this prospectus surfaced ? In which case the deal was a long way down the line by that time. I get the feeling that they feel betrayed by what has gone on, certainly Peter Ward from the SCG seemed to hint at that kind of feeling on CWR this morning and he is closer to CCFC, Fisher etc than most.

Have CCFC been able to contact CCC or Wasps about this? Every likelihood that CCC/ACL/AEHC/Wasps are subject to NDA's and exclusivity agreements so I would think they can not respond in any case.

I think what really irks them is that had they stayed away then they would have had more options (no fans but more options). Now the club is back at the Ricoh then they have at least one arm tied behind their back - the only out other than staying is to build.

Also I would guess there will be the argument that bringing the club back added worth to the stadium value in this Wasps deal and that some how they were brought back under false pretences to benefit CCC/AEHC in the deal. I would question just how much worth a financially strapped mid table L1 team with a fast fading brand on a guaranteed 2 year deal adds to it. Had they committed to a long term deal then yes there is worth but even then how much?

 

[skybluetony176]

I think It's telling that SISU returned the Club to the Stadium ,whilst having knowledge of these moves ,suggests Involvement of some sort to me.

Either that or they got wind of the deal and new that the only way that they could appose a deal is if the club is currently playing back at the Ricoh. Lets face it, if we were still at Suxfields with the on-going illusion that we're building our own stadium SISU has no conection to the Ricoh and no right to an opinion that would have to be considered.

 

[torchomatic]

THese kind of deals don't happen in days, do they? I have a feeling ACL/CCC have been working on this for a while. After all, a similar news story popped up a couple of years ago. I don't know obviously, but would think this was as much as a surprise to them as it was for us.

Thing is did SISU have knowledge or did they become aware when this prospectus surfaced ? In which case the deal was a long way down the line by that time. I get the feeling that they feel betrayed by what has gone on, certainly Peter Ward from the SCG seemed to hint at that kind of feeling on CWR this morning and he is closer to CCFC, Fisher etc than most.

Have CCFC been able to contact CCC or Wasps about this? Every likelihood that CCC/ACL/AEHC/Wasps are subject to NDA's and exclusivity agreements so I would think they can not respond in any case.

I think what really irks them is that had they stayed away then they would have had more options (no fans but more options). Now the club is back at the Ricoh then they have at least one arm tied behind their back - the only out other than staying is to build.

Also I would guess there will be the argument that bringing the club back added worth to the stadium value in this Wasps deal and that some how they were brought back under false pretences to benefit CCC/AEHC in the deal. I would question just how much worth a financially strapped mid table L1 team with a fast fading brand on a guaranteed 2 year deal adds to it. Had they committed to a long term deal then yes there is worth but even then how much?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

After all, a similar news story popped up a couple of years ago.

It would be very, very disappointing if the appetite for a deal with CCFC was not there, whilst an appetite for AN Other.

 

[wingy]

Thing is did SISU have knowledge or did they become aware when this prospectus surfaced ? In which case the deal was a long way down the line by that time. I get the feeling that they feel betrayed by what has gone on, certainly Peter Ward from the SCG seemed to hint at that kind of feeling on CWR this morning and he is closer to CCFC, Fisher etc than most.

Have CCFC been able to contact CCC or Wasps about this? Every likelihood that CCC/ACL/AEHC/Wasps are subject to NDA's and exclusivity agreements so I would think they can not respond in any case.

I think what really irks them is that had they stayed away then they would have had more options (no fans but more options). Now the club is back at the Ricoh then they have at least one arm tied behind their back - the only out other than staying is to build.

Also I would guess there will be the argument that bringing the club back added worth to the stadium value in this Wasps deal and that some how they were brought back under false pretences to benefit CCC/AEHC in the deal. I would question just how much worth a financially strapped mid table L1 team with a fast fading brand on a guaranteed 2 year deal adds to it. Had they committed to a long term deal then yes there is worth but even then how much?

How recent was the prospectus Expose ?

Info about people connected to the Club had email evidence pertaining to this 3-4 weeks back were mentioned on the terraces ,so possibly around the time of the first articles .

fisher seemed to be hinting at being locked out of an opportunity immediately after move back,thinking about It your analysis stacks up better than mine .

 

[chiefdave]

fisher seemed to be hinting at being locked out of an opportunity immediately after move back,thinking about It your analysis stacks up better than mine .

If I was in there position I would have a simple statement up on the website, without any digs at any other party, and just state the club wishes to remain at the Ricoh permanently and will be submitting a bid for part and / or full ownership of ACL.

Than actually submit a bid and a second simple statement saying they have done so.

That would force the councils hand. At the moment it is very easy for them to say we have had no bid from SISU and they are stating they are building a new ground and leaving the Ricoh in 2-4 years.

Rather than moaning about not getting their own way force the councils hand. You have to think there would be a lot of questions asked of the council if a formal bid was submitted by SISU but dismissed out of hand. Not sure CCC could even do that without getting into trouble themselves.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Can't help thinking SISU got this all wrong...... that the interests of what is best for the club have been subjugated to those of SISU, but dressed up as good for the club.

My understanding is that the club set the time period for the return to the Ricoh. They set it as 4 years in total and then how that was split was negotiated. That means that CCFC wanted a short term deal not a long term deal. I am sure they have their reasons for short term..... building a new stadium for example, although I tend to believe it was intended to somehow pressurise ACL/CCC/AEHC. That indicates to me either they were not aware of the Wasps deal or that the Wasps deal is of no consequence because SISU/CCFC never intended to be at the Ricoh long term (I favour the first part of that - not aware)

They have for the next two to four years parked CCFC at the Ricoh. The better income there will allow them to pay the interest on loans and gives them time. This year it is important to get promoted because they have the funds to back it....... next year could be a whole lot different. The emphasis financially I think is now no more loans pay the interest and see what that leaves us. The club can bump along and the plan was it could enable pressure for a deal on ownership - except the Wasps deal has totally relieved any pressure on ACL and left SISU out in the cold for now.

Wishful thinking perhaps but I hope that Waggott and Fisher see the potential in negotiating with Wasps once as is likely the takeover happens. Put the club not SISU first. Secure a long term improved deal at the Ricoh and give the club and fans some stability. Other than building a stadium they cant afford and wont have the capacity to bring in similar revenues what are their choices?

 

[Godiva]

If this was just some finance group buying ACL that wasn't bringing another sports franchise then would there be half the furore going on? It would just be a change of landlord wouldn't it?

Well, it depends. Doesn't it?
I can think of one finance group that caused upset when they tried to buy into ACL.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

Question:

Does SISU stilll have the option to buy out the charity's share of ACL?

I don't think they do. Was the share deal not an arrangement between Higgs and CCFC LTD (In process of Liquidation)??

The new CCFC entity is now Otium not SISU.


EDIT: as per Simon G post:

The first option clause may still exist if it was passed to Otium as an asset from CCFC.

This will be interesting to know if it has.

 

[Jack Griffin]

was saying that it made sense for CCC and AEHC to sell up that it was an excellent deal for them. That it didn't mean that CCFC had to go. That there were opportunities for CCFC to do a longer deal that got them income streams including shares in naming rights and sponsorship. That it was the income streams that were important not the ownership. That there was an opportunity for Wasps and CCFC to work together that would benefit both. That stadiums had to be used more than 23 days a year and were capable of greater use. That there were deals to be done if both sides (Wasps and CCFC) wanted it ..... in fact that a partnership between the two of some kind was a good solution

That a scenario I believed was possible, it remains to be seen how Wasps regard CCFC, but they'd be fools to exclude them.
Anyway I don't think the council can conclude this deal without building in some safeguards for CCFC.

It looks like the council are intent on washing their hands of the Arena & putting it into private ownership and will take this offer while it is on the table,
I don't think anyone should wait for SISU/ARVO to make an offer, they've had years to make one & all their offers were below value.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

I don't think anyone should wait for SISU/ARVO to make an offer, they've had years to make one & all their offers were below value.

Didn't help of course when Mutton was banging on about the Council half not for sale, and certainly not for sale to SISU.

Turns out the second half may well have been true, if not the first...

 

[Nick]

Didn't help of course when Mutton was banging on about the Council half not for sale, and certainly not for sale to SISU.

Turns out the second half may well have been true, if not the first...

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

If the consortium buy it yes -- so the council are buying it to get round that

How can you say for certain if the "consortium buy it yes" when we don't know what they are offering??

 

[Sick Boy]

Why is it that there was so much outrage about franchising sports teams, yet some even appear to not mind about it happening to another club?

Why is it that ccc seem to be beyond criticism?

 

[rupert_bear]

I have no doubt in my mind that sisu have been well and truly shafted with all this. I also think those behind all this waited for our Ricoh return before showing their hand too much of a coincidence to me. Sisu are stuck either way, can't bid for the Ricoh as they haven't got the money and what investor can they attract with their much publicised running of the football club. As for the future to me it is just a change of landlord who will need us, the football club, to earn money. The bigger question is does this spell the beginning of the end of sisu's involvement here, I believe it does. Of course Timmy and his friends could go ahead and attempt to build their desired stadium OR they could hang about a while and share the Butts Park Arena.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Didn't help of course when Mutton was banging on about the Council half not for sale, and certainly not for sale to SISU.

Turns out the second half may well have been true, if not the first...

Mutton got replaced & with him that attitude, if you look there have been many statements from Ann Lucas about being 'open to offers', but without any offers it was inevitable something like this would happen.

 

[Godiva]

I don't think anyone should wait for SISU/ARVO to make an offer, they've had years to make one & all their offers were below value.

I seem to remember sisu tried to buy a half share in ACL.
Higgs should receive some £5m and sisu would buy out and discharge the mortgage from YB - then at £15m.
So a deal proposed value at £20m for 50% of ACL.

It didn't work out for a number of reasons.

CCC and Higgs are now ready to accept a deal valued at £30m for 90% of ACL.
Is it a better deal?

 

[sky blue john]

I have no doubt in my mind that sisu have been well and truly shafted with all this. I also think those behind all this waited for our Ricoh return before showing their hand too much of a coincidence to me. Sisu are stuck either way, can't bid for the Ricoh as they haven't got the money and what investor can they attract with their much publicised running of the football club. As for the future to me it is just a change of landlord who will need us, the football club, to earn money. The bigger question is does this spell the beginning of the end of sisu's involvement here, I believe it does. Of course Timmy and his friends could go ahead and attempt to build their desired stadium OR they could hang about a while and share the Butts Park Arena.

My heart bleeds for Sisu what goes around comes around is the saying !

 

[torchomatic]

Is that the same Ann "I Love Coventry City" Lucas who is desperate to franchise?

Mutton got replaced & with him that attitude, if you look there have been many statements from Ann Lucas about being 'open to offers', but without any offers it was inevitable something like this would happen.

 

[torchomatic]

And if the football team is fucked because of it then who cares? Ha, ha, ha, etc. You are a dick.

My heart bleeds for Sisu what goes around comes around is the saying !

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Mutton got replaced & with him that attitude, if you look there have been many statements from Ann Lucas about being 'open to offers', but without any offers it was inevitable something like this would happen.

In terms, however, of SISU always having had the opportunity, it appears not.

*If* (if, I emphasise the if btw for a purpose) they were talking to Wasps years back, before we even moved from the Ricoh, this would be distinctly dubious practice in my eyes as it would appear the whole rehtoric about the Arena being a council asset and thus not for sale would have been... untrue.

Worse, it would not only be untrue, but the actions would actively encourage the football team to bog off (again?).