Rumour: Hoffman and Elliot takeover negotiations (3 Viewers)

fernandopartridge said:

All I can see in the offer is a commitment to sell players and Ryton yet the club to earn only see half of that income. What's the plan for the academy and training ground if the plan is to sell Ryton? How is the asset base going to be improved?


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If I heard correctly on CWR he said that they wouldn't be interested necessarily in selling Ryton.

He also made the point of saying that neither him or the other investors are looking to earn from this and just the opposite that they're all prepared and understand that they'll lose money. Also said that they would invest.

Brylowes said:

You think the future is safer with SISU?

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Grow up.

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torchomatic said:

I know what Fernando means. It's a shame that for the next five years we will be giving half of everything we make to SISU. Be nice for them to accept a figure and walk away. Unfortunately, it seems that the consortium either don't have the kind of capital SISU would accept or are reluctant to offer it.

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That would the investors to be just that, instead they're buying the club on its own credit card

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fernandopartridge said:

All I can see in the offer is a commitment to sell players and Ryton yet the club to earn only see half of that income. What's the plan for the academy and training ground if the plan is to sell Ryton? How is the asset base going to be improved?


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These are perfectly legitimate questions, but surely the answers will not come (and cannot come) until SISU accept the bid. These investors would be foolish to show their full hand at this point. If they were to declare that after acquiring the club they would pump in £15 million, it opens the door for SISU to demand more of that up front.

torchomatic said:

Interesting that the new owners also wish to sell Ryton. Unless, of course, they have little choice as they can't raise more upfront capital. As long as we have a training base then really I'm not too bothered about Ryton.

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If I heard correctly I think he actually said the opposite although to please SISU with 50% of it it might be a necessary evil. The last part is my opinion not what Hoffman said.

ccfc92 said:

What would you say is a decent offer?

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Add a couple of million to the starting offer with the other terms and they're mad not to take.

skybluetony176 said:

If I heard correctly I think he actually said the opposite although to please SISU with 50% of it it might be a necessary evil. The last part is my opinion not what Hoffman said.

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You're probably right. I've not heard it, was just going by the list posted of what he said.

"The club is now relegated to League Two, the fourth tier of English football – and is struggling to make ends meet amid off-field politics and being deprived of commercial revenues from a stadium.

The fans group The Sky Blue Trust and associated groups have campaigned for ‘fans’ or ‘part-fans’ ownership for five years, but have failed in that time to show a credible plan for achieving it."

This is Les Reid code for: "the club has been victim of the council, Wasps and other third parties screwing it over, and responsibility for relegation to L2 lies principally with these groups, not SISU; meanwhile the SBT is a laughing stocking lacking all credibility". Bellend.

ccfc92 said:

More positive than yesterday IMO. £1.2m is a bit random, I'd say there's more that can be bid by Hoffman.

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All the words coming from the sisu camp sounds like it's a non starter. Would love to believe otherwise but you can't buy anything if the other is flat out refusing to sell.

theferret said:

These are perfectly legitimate questions, but surely the answers will not come (and cannot come) until SISU accept the bid. These investors would be foolish to show their full hand at this point. If they were to declare that after acquiring the club they would pump in £15 million, it opens the door for SISU to demand more of that up front.

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Up front and a clean break is what's needed though, I can't help but suspect that the investors don't have the funds.

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Shame Tim Fucking Fisher and co arnt so hard faced and stubborn when it comes to players sales.

I think Hoffman will come back with one more offer!!

Us fans need to hold out buying a season ticket for a month!

torchomatic said:

I know what Fernando means. It's a shame that for the next five years we will be giving half of everything we make to SISU. Be nice for them to accept a figure and walk away. Unfortunately, it seems that the consortium either don't have the kind of capital SISU would accept or are reluctant to offer it.

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50% of players sales, don't sell any players = nothing owed

robbiekeane said:

Where in the quote does it say that you mong

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What did you call me ,

robbiekeane said:

Doesn't look good does it

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Why not?

ccfc92 said:

50% of players sales, don't sell any players = nothing owed

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NIce one. Give them all away or swap deals only!

SkyBlue_Bear83 said:

All the words coming from the sisu camp sounds like it's a non starter. Would love to believe otherwise but you can't buy anything if the other is flat out refusing to sell.

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Everything is for sale, at the right price.

torchomatic said:

Interesting that the new owners also wish to sell Ryton. Unless, of course, they have little choice as they can't raise more upfront capital. As long as we have a training base then really I'm not too bothered about Ryton.

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No plan to sell Ryton as far as I can see, just providing SISU with a guarantee if it's sold in the future.

Do they expect someone to take on the debt they created.

I don't think it bodes well that SISU seem so dismissive and borderline contemtuous (then again, by now we shouldn't expect much else). Perhaps they are playing tough via the media as part of their negotiating strategy, whilst in reality keeping dialogue open. IIRC that was what happened when the secret Ricoh talks were underway in autumn 2014. Fingers crossed, eh?

fernandopartridge said:

Up front and a clean break is what's needed though, I can't help but suspect that the investors don't have the funds.

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I suspect you're right. They may have the funds to make a 'walkaway' offer to SISU, but that might leave them with nothing to fix the mess that's left behind. I guess their thinking is that what money they do have is invested in the club and they pay off SISU over time as revenues increase on the back of that financial shot in the arm. I can understand that. Apart from a very wealthy individual emerging from nowhere, this might be the best we can hope for to be honest. Not ideal, but the fact these people are willing to literally throw their own cash at this in order to make something happen is to be applauded.

GH might as well submit the 3rd bid straight to Les, saves time.

torchomatic said:

NIce one. Give them all away or swap deals only!

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Or, when we do sell a player, we demand more to offset the fee to SISU.

theferret said:

These are perfectly legitimate questions, but surely the answers will not come (and cannot come) until SISU accept the bid. These investors would be foolish to show their full hand at this point. If they were to declare that after acquiring the club they would pump in £15 million, it opens the door for SISU to demand more of that up front.

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You certainly wouldn't put it past them. I'm sure they'd rather take it up front than let someone else invest £15M and then take a percentage of the fruits of that investment should there be any even though in reality it would be money for nothing for them. All they would see is the £15M that they didn't get a bigger share of in the first place. Such is their mentality.

coop said:

Do they expect someone to take on the debt they created.

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No, they expect someone to pay for it

ccfc92 said:

Everything is for sale, at the right price.

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None of the noise coming from the club is now saying that we are not for sale as they have previously done, only that the bids weren't acceptable.

Sterling Archer said:

If SISU have rejected this second offer surely they need to say:
A) Why
and
B) What would be acceptable


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Exactly. They seem to totally ignore that SISU are not interested in a deal that will force them to realise a huge loss in exchange for a few pounds and promisses of more if the future is bright and positive.

To me it underlines that Hoffman is the wrong man for the job. He need to understand SISU, how they work and - most importantly - how they make their money - before he can table a bid they would listen to.
It doesn't matter one bit if the club is worth more or less the offer - it's all about what SISU will potentially gain or lose overall.

It would be different if SISU were acitvely seeking a way out and put the club up for sale. Then it would be about assets and debt write off - like when SISU came in.
But they haven't put the club up for sale, and they won't have to, even if the club is losing its home at the Ricoh, must close down the acadamy, faces less revenues in league 2 and sees a huge drop in ST sales. SISU will cut costs as they have since 2010 and maybe be forced to make additional, but small loans to the club. It won't force them to sell.
But the club will suffer even more and make it even less likely for serious investors to work up an appetite.

He is repeating past mistakes of believing SISU can be forced out by urging fans to deprive the club of money or create loud sisu-out-campaigns. It didn't work in 2013 and it won't work in 2017.

He need to rethink his strategy.

theferret said:

I suspect you're right. They may have the funds to make a 'walkaway' offer to SISU, but that might leave them with nothing to fix the mess that's left behind.

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To be honest I guess a lot of us would say "who cares?" Try and sell a shit load of season tickets but be upfront and say we will have to rely on loans and journey men or a season or two. I think all of us would take that scenario.

fernandopartridge said:

Grow up.

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Can we take that as a no? If it is Grendull will probably take his like back

skyblueelephant76 said:

None of the noise coming from the club is now saying that we are not for sale as they have previously done, only that the bids weren't acceptable.

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It's screaming "offer us more" IMO.

ccfc92 said:

What would you say is a decent offer?

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The question should be 'what would SISU say is a decent offer'?

Sterling Archer said:

If SISU have rejected this second offer surely they need to say:
A) Why
and
B) What would be acceptable

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You would hope so. And you would hope that has been or will be communicated to Hoff. Otherwise it is just a guessing game and before too long Hoff will just give up again.

now just awaiting Simon Gilbert to exclusively reveal a 3rd bid is coming, then Les can reveal what it is

The offer makes no sense

A lot of add ons based on if buts and maybes. Most of the offer is based on a premier league return and did t he say a timescale on the add ons of 7 years?

The upfront money they would double by selling Ryton.

Do these people actually have any money at all?

I guess the other way GH could come back would be to readdress the balance of the offer. Say another million or millions up front but either reduce the percentages of the add-ons or delete some of the add-ons altogether.

Grendel said:

The offer makes no sense

A lot of add ons based on if buts and maybes. Most of the offer is based on a premier league return and did t he say a timescale on the add ons of 7 years?

The upfront money they would double by selling Ryton.

Do these people actually have any money at all?

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Agreed, there's nothing to really tempt SISU at the minute.

Is it 4 people quoted as the consortium? If so, surely they could muster more than £1.2m to put in a decent bid to tempt SISU.