Rent (1 Viewer)

Captain Dart · May 10, 2017

martcov said:
Are we taking a financial hit though? We pay 100000 rent and get over 70000 back from the 50% profits on F&B. We have no responsibility for stadium maintenance etc..

The present rent deal is not really 'taking a hit'. We played about 26 games at a net rent cost of a bit more than 1000,00 a game. About 12 pence per spectator per game.

There are matchday costs to add on, the sort of figure being discussed when City returned to the Ricoh was around 10K per game, if you bump this up to 12K per game then the equation is around 400K for the season inclusive of rent and matchday receipts.

The club note £1.1M direct operating costs in the accounts, assuming there is 500K on the ground that leaves 600K on other stuff (not staff) which we can assume means upkeep of Ryton, the ticketing and mechanising operations, insurance, entertainment, transport and accommodation.

Have I missed anything else out, the description in the accounts (below) is suspiciously lightweight, I do wonder what it cloaks.

skybluetony176 · May 10, 2017

Captain Dart said:
There are matchday costs to add on, the sort of figure being discussed when City returned to the Ricoh was around 10K per game, if you bump this up to 12K per game then the equation is around 400K for the season inclusive of rent and matchday receipts.

The club note £1.1M direct operating costs in the accounts, assuming there is 500K on the ground that leaves 600K on other stuff (not staff) which we can assume means upkeep of Ryton, the ticketing and mechanising operations, insurance, entertainment, transport and accommodation.

Have I missed anything else out, the description in the accounts (below) is suspiciously lightweight, I do wonder what it cloaks.
View attachment 7421

If we owned the Ricoh we'd still have match day costs. They're not a consequence of renting, they're an intrinsic part of running a football club. What we don't have of course is non match day costs. No one seems to want to work that into the equation. The OP was a valid point, we most likely can't run the Ricoh in league 2. Wasps by all indications are struggling with the income they generate, our contribution in rent as well as F &B and the Ricoh seeming to be busier aside from that with other events outside of Rugby and football than it's been for years.

The truth is that certainly while we're in the bottom two leagues rent deal depending renting might be our most viable option. Might be an inconvenient truth for some but has purchasing ACL (even without the bond commitments) freed wasps or just become a monster to feed?

duffer · May 10, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
If we owned the Ricoh we'd still have match day costs. They're not a consequence of renting, they're an intrinsic part of running a football club. What we don't have of course is non match day costs. No one seems to want to work that into the equation. The OP was a valid point, we most likely can't run the Ricoh in league 2. Wasps by all indications are struggling with the income they generate, our contribution in rent as well as F &B and the Ricoh seeming to be busier aside from that with other events outside of Rugby and football than it's been for years.

The truth is that certainly while we're in the bottom two leagues rent deal depending renting might be our most viable option. Might be an inconvenient truth for some but has purchasing ACL (even without the bond commitments) freed wasps or just become a monster to feed?

Fair play SBT, I must confess that I'd never really thought of it that way - definitely a different perspective on it.

skybluetony176 · May 10, 2017

duffer said:
Fair play SBT, I must confess that I'd never really thought of it that way - definitely a different perspective on it.

I'm not just a pretty face duffer

chiefdave · May 10, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
If we owned the Ricoh we'd still have match day costs. They're not a consequence of renting, they're an intrinsic part of running a football club.

Depends what your classing at matchday costs. Some things, such as policing, stewarding, ticketing, the club are paying on top of what we pay ACL. There are also lots of other things we wouldn't pay, or certainly not pay as much, if we owned the stadium. Also remember that we aren't being charged cost price on these charges, they are being supplied by ACL at a mark up, hence their insistence on us using their stewards.

oldskyblue58 · May 10, 2017

Captain Dart said:
There are matchday costs to add on, the sort of figure being discussed when City returned to the Ricoh was around 10K per game, if you bump this up to 12K per game then the equation is around 400K for the season inclusive of rent and matchday receipts.

The club note £1.1M direct operating costs in the accounts, assuming there is 500K on the ground that leaves 600K on other stuff (not staff) which we can assume means upkeep of Ryton, the ticketing and mechanising operations, insurance, entertainment, transport and accommodation.

Have I missed anything else out, the description in the accounts (below) is suspiciously lightweight, I do wonder what it cloaks.
View attachment 7421

actually note 5 goes on to explain £205k of wages costs is included in direct costs.

From what I was told recently the match day costs are around £10k per match still. Although the final match would have been higher because of all of the security brought in. That still puts rent & match day costs if all payable to ACL at under £400k

All clubs have match day costs, including staffing, security, utilities, back office operations etc. The actual increase compared to other clubs is if there is a profit element charged by ACL. Costs could be slightly higher because of the size & nature of the stadium itself too but that size of stadium has (or should have) advantages for CCFC too. Until we know what direct costs are at CCFC and other clubs we just can not compare

skybluetony176 · May 10, 2017

chiefdave said:
Depends what your classing at matchday costs. Some things, such as policing, stewarding, ticketing, the club are paying on top of what we pay ACL. There are also lots of other things we wouldn't pay, or certainly not pay as much, if we owned the stadium. Also remember that we aren't being charged cost price on these charges, they are being supplied by ACL at a mark up, hence their insistence on us using their stewards.

What about the non match day costs we don't have to pay that are part in parcel of owning and running a stadium? The bit everyone wants to ignore.

Is ACL a cash cow for Wasps or a monster to feed?

fernandopartridge · May 10, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
What about the non match day costs we don't have to pay that are part in parcel of owning and running a stadium? The bit everyone wants to ignore.

Is ACL a cash cow for Wasps or a monster to feed?

Whilst of course you can't ignore the costs, you can't ignore the income either.

FWIW the £100k rent + match day costs with 50% of net? profit seems a decent enough deal, certainly better than £1.3m + match day costs with no stadium related income and I would suggest reasonable enough to be able to base a promotion challenge from L2 and L1 on

chiefdave · May 10, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
What about the non match day costs we don't have to pay that are part in parcel of owning and running a stadium? The bit everyone wants to ignore.

What non match days costs are you talking about in particular? Many of them would be offset by using the stadium for other purposes if it was under our ownership. For example the clubs offices would be there, the club shop would be there and the ticket office would be there. Costs related to having those operations elsewhere would be removed.

What else is there? Security would surely be shared with the likes of the hotel and casino. Utilities would be required by those using the arena on non matchdays so not really an issue. Pitch maintenance wouldn't really cost much more as we already employ staff to maintain pitches.

Captain Dart · May 10, 2017

chiefdave said:
What non match days costs are you talking about in particular? Many of them would be offset by using the stadium for other purposes if it was under our ownership. For example the clubs offices would be there, the club shop would be there and the ticket office would be there. Costs related to having those operations elsewhere would be removed.

What else is there? Security would surely be shared with the likes of the hotel and casino. Utilities would be required by those using the arena on non matchdays so not really an issue. Pitch maintenance wouldn't really cost much more as we already employ staff to maintain pitches.

All those operations are at Ryton (cheap) , outsourced or moved to the Butts. The club had only 15 admin staff at the last accounts, probably even less now.
There is bugger all financial advantage to reshaping those operations and an extra risk of unexpected costs. This is no magic bullet.

Brylowes · May 10, 2017

Captain Dart said:
There are matchday costs to add on, the sort of figure being discussed when City returned to the Ricoh was around 10K per game, if you bump this up to 12K per game then the equation is around 400K for the season inclusive of rent and matchday receipts
View attachment 7421

When we returned to the Ricoh we were using the whole stadium, we've mothballed a full Stand since
then, and I'd bet there busy now working out how to close down some more of it.

skybluetony176 · May 10, 2017

chiefdave said:
What non match days costs are you talking about in particular? Many of them would be offset by using the stadium for other purposes if it was under our ownership. For example the clubs offices would be there, the club shop would be there and the ticket office would be there. Costs related to having those operations elsewhere would be removed.

What else is there? Security would surely be shared with the likes of the hotel and casino. Utilities would be required by those using the arena on non matchdays so not really an issue. Pitch maintenance wouldn't really cost much more as we already employ staff to maintain pitches.

All of them. If you own the stadium you don't have the luxury of picking and choosing what bills you pay, you pay all of them.

Yes many would be offset. All of them though? Like I keep asking. Is ACL a cash cow for Wasps or a monster to feed? It's the latter isn't it. How is that going to benefit us in league 2 with sub 10k attendances? It isn't is it?

skybluetony176 · May 10, 2017

fernandopartridge said:
Whilst of course you can't ignore the costs, you can't ignore the income either.

FWIW the £100k rent + match day costs with 50% of net? profit seems a decent enough deal, certainly better than £1.3m + match day costs with no stadium related income and I would suggest reasonable enough to be able to base a promotion challenge from L2 and L1 on

The income would of course add to the scmp/ffp calculation but in real terms what would it actually add to the playing budget? Very little to nothing looking at ACL's accounts. One poor summer with no events might it actually have a negative effect on the budget? I'm sure it will be fine and dandy if we were in the premier league with all the exposure helping with things like naming rights, corporate sales, higher ticket prices etc. but right now it hardly seems a priority yet seems to be Tim and SISU's focus. Well that and JR's.

stupot07 · May 10, 2017

fernandopartridge said:
Whilst of course you can't ignore the costs, you can't ignore the income either.

FWIW the £100k rent + match day costs with 50% of net? profit seems a decent enough deal, certainly better than £1.3m + match day costs with no stadium related income and I would suggest reasonable enough to be able to base a promotion challenge from L2 and L1 on

All depends on what wasps want to charge after this deal. You have to remember the current deal was already agreed pre-wasps.

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skybluetony176 · May 10, 2017

stupot07 said:
All depends on what wasps want to charge after this deal. You have to remember the current deal was already agreed pre-wasps.

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It does indeed.

ccfcway · May 10, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
I'm sure it will be fine and dandy if we were in the premier league with all the exposure helping with things like naming rights, corporate sales, higher ticket prices etc. but right now it hardly seems a priority yet seems to be Tim and SISU's focus. Well that and JR's.

is it ?. Where are we at with JR2, have the began the process ?

stupot07 · May 10, 2017

Not noticed anyone has posted this. Wasps had recieved and responded to MPs letter after all.....

Wasps won't take part in mediation over CCFC's future at Ricoh

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chiefdave · May 10, 2017

stupot07 said:
Not noticed anyone has posted this. Wasps had recieved and responded to MPs letter after all.....

Wasps won't take part in mediation over CCFC's future at Ricoh

Pathetic, what possible reason could there be to refuse mediation unless they don't want us to stay at the Ricoh on a fair deal.

At least he's been caught out lying, and not for the first time, although I'm sure the usual suspects will be along shortly to defend him.

Grendel · May 10, 2017

stupot07 said:
Not noticed anyone has posted this. Wasps had recieved and responded to MPs letter after all.....

Wasps won't take part in mediation over CCFC's future at Ricoh

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The bat phone is going red in Italias and Dongles as we speak.

Deflector shields being charged up

RegTheDonk · May 10, 2017

Well at least she wished us good luck on Sat when we play Charlton!

Grendel · May 10, 2017

chiefdave said:
Pathetic, what possible reason could there be to refuse mediation unless they don't want us to stay at the Ricoh on a fair deal.

At least he's been caught out lying, and not for the first time, although I'm sure the usual suspects will be along shortly to defend him.

Eastwoods a buffoon. He's like the Theresa May of CEO's though. He will come out with any old nonsense and no one will care.

I mean seriously. His trousers are round his ankles again. How many more times.

Talk direct? Er legal action cough cough.

skybluetony176 · May 10, 2017

Good work by the telegraph. Getting Nicky to admit that they actually had been contacted by the MP after talking to said MP. That's investigative journalism for you.

Astute · May 10, 2017

chiefdave said:
Pathetic, what possible reason could there be to refuse mediation unless they don't want us to stay at the Ricoh on a fair deal.

At least he's been caught out lying, and not for the first time, although I'm sure the usual suspects will be along shortly to defend him.

There is no need for mediation if they are willing to talk. And they've now said that they are willing to talk. Does it mean that the bullshit about not wanting to talk until the JR's are finished does not now apply?

If not it is just a bullshit offer. Or do they desperately need us there?

Grendel · May 10, 2017

chiefdave said:
Nick Eastwood was Wasps chief exec, was replaced by David Armstrong. Armstong is now being replaced by Eastwood.

There was an interview with Eastwood in the CT yesterday where he said "“We haven’t heard anything from the football club ... If and when they wish to talk to us, of course we are always willing to talk and listen.". Seemed a bit odd to me as the talks ended when Wasps refused to continue speaking with the club so you would expect, if their stance had changed, for them to inform the club of this.

He was also asked about mediation. Previously Chris Heaton-Harris was appointed by Tracey Crouch (sports minister) to mediate. Eastwood stated "All we know about that is what we’ve read in the public space. We haven’t been approached by anyone.”

Today it has been confirmed that Heaton-Harris did contact Wasps by letter and received no response.

Hold on a minute. The MP said he received no response. Ha ha ha The "letter" Nicky knew nothing about never arrived.

thekidfromstrettoncamp · May 10, 2017

The statement by Mr Eastwood says "Our position remains the same-we would like Coventry City to remain at the Ricoh Area and are willing to listen if they do make an approach to discuss options" seems plain enough to me no talk of anything to do with legal action stopping anything .Why don't the press get round and ask Mr Fisher why he is not asking for a meeting after all It's us that want the use of the stadium or will he leave it till the last minute and claim we were held to ransom. The statement says we are willing to listen it should also have said we won't be dictated to because when the talk of mediation first surfaced I seem to remember Mr fisher throwing three conditions in before they would talk.

fernandopartridge · May 10, 2017

skybluetony176 said:
Good work by the telegraph. Getting Nicky to admit that they actually had been contacted by the MP after talking to said MP. That's investigative journalism for you.

Agreed Toni, fair play. I'd just call it journalism tbf. Gathering facts and allowing a right of reply.

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dongonzalos · May 10, 2017

stupot07 said:
Not noticed anyone has posted this. Wasps had recieved and responded to MPs letter after all.....

Wasps won't take part in mediation over CCFC's future at Ricoh

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Looks like a farce that he did not know that they had received a letter. Why comment on it in a public interview if you haven't actually checked your facts. Ends up looking like a right plonker.
I get the bit where he says they don't need mediation though as they are willing to talk anyway. Although I don't get why he didn't just say that they other day instead of saying they hadn't been asked.
I assume the club will have called them by now to start talking anyway. So let's see how the talks go.

dongonzalos · May 10, 2017

Grendel said:
The bat phone is going red in Italias and Dongles as we speak.

Deflector shields being charged up

Yep getting my Wasps kit on as we speak and getting under my Wasps duvet.

thekidfromstrettoncamp · May 10, 2017

Dongonzalos if you assume the club have made a call you must live in cloud cuckoo land. This is Tim Fisher you are talking about. When we have had talks about important issues we make some sort of excuse and fail to turn up.

dongonzalos · May 10, 2017

thekidfromstrettoncamp said:
Dongonzalos if you assume the club have made a call you must live in cloud cuckoo land. This is Tim Fisher you are talking about. When we have had talks about important issues we make some sort of excuse and fail to turn up.

Hopefully a lesson has been learnt and that after the brinkmanship that led to the first lot of rental talks going nowhere that ultimately led to Northampton.
Then the Brinkmanship over building our own ground. Ignoring a request to put in our best offer.
That led to Wasps.
Hopefully this is third time lucky and we do a deal with Wasps.
Although saying that I have a feeling SISU wouldn't sustain another move away. So maybe there won't be the dramatics this time.

Brylowes · May 10, 2017

thekidfromstrettoncamp said:
Dongonzalos if you assume the club have made a call you must live in cloud cuckoo land. This is Tim Fisher you are talking about. When we have had talks about important issues we make some sort of excuse and fail to turn up.

I've got a hunch Dongo was being a bit 'ya know, sarccy

thekidfromstrettoncamp · May 11, 2017

If your hunch is right sorry Dongonzalos for my misinterpretation.

Brylowes · May 11, 2017

thekidfromstrettoncamp said:
If your hunch is right sorry Dongonzalos for my misinterpretation.

After his 2nd post it appears it's me who maybe mistaken, and if that is the case
I 'like you do not share his optimism that SISU will do the right thing.:emoji_thinking:

hutch1972 · May 11, 2017

singers_pore said:
I agree. The bond price is not that reliable due to the low liquidity. The next set of accounts will be interesting to see if the on field success has moved them from a loss to a profit. Maybe it has? We don't really know yet. But if they have a couple of bad seasons they could really be struggling.

Unless people start paying for tickets they will not be able to turn it around.
Although they average 16kish, which is over double what they got at wycombe, ticket sales are only up by 19%.

bawtryneal · May 11, 2017

hutch1972 said:
Unless people start paying for tickets they will not be able to turn it around.
Although they average 16kish, which is over double what they got at wycombe, ticket sales are only up by 19%.

28,500 paid full price against Saracens last week.
They make a small fortune in hospitality on top of that.
Will be even more against Leicester.

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