Nick
Administrator
Didn't she get replaced with a councillor or MP or something instead?
London fire (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sky Blue Pete
- Start date
Didn't she get replaced with a councillor or MP or something instead?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
30 dead, 12 critical and 76 missing so that figure won't be miles out. Don't see a cover up though. You can't just announce the missing as dead until it's confirmed even though unfortunately many of them will be.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
Yes she did, how very convenient!
Rich
Moderator
Actual dead and confirmed dead are going to be different at this stage.
She's a media version of CC4L just trying to cause a scene and draw attention to herself.
At this time she's completely out of order and irrelevant.
Nick
Administrator
Don't really see it like that, they probably saw a councillor or MP are more relevant than somebody who wants to shout about everything and anything they can for a bit of attention.
Can't see where the cover up is, they will need to get bodies out and count them and try to even identify them.
Otis
Well-Known Member
You can control grief though in the drip feeding information.
There would be a hell of a lot more anger if it came out 150 were dead immediately.
People obviously cannot be identified if burned beyond recognition, but the fire brigade having now gone into the building should be able to provide a body count.
There would be a hell of a lot more anger if it came out 150 were dead immediately.
People obviously cannot be identified if burned beyond recognition, but the fire brigade having now gone into the building should be able to provide a body count.
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
Horrendous job for firefighters trying to discover and retrieve the charred bodies. Can't even begin to think how you can count/identify the bodies.
Whilst I'm critical of overall government policy in the area i do believe in the immediate aftermath they are on a hiding to nothing. I certainly believe that this fire (the extent of it) was avoidable but people are rightly angry and whatever politicians do at this moment will treated with suspicion. May made a misjudgement with not meeting survivors yesterday but I do not see it as worse than that.
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Whilst I'm critical of overall government policy in the area i do believe in the immediate aftermath they are on a hiding to nothing. I certainly believe that this fire (the extent of it) was avoidable but people are rightly angry and whatever politicians do at this moment will treated with suspicion. May made a misjudgement with not meeting survivors yesterday but I do not see it as worse than that.
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Otis
Well-Known Member
Seems that most things May does are misjudgments lately.
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
covmark
Well-Known Member
I saw an interview with that bellend Lily Allen. Mouthing off about how the media are downplaying the amount of dead. Does she not realise it's the police that release how many dead have been found so far. The media deserve most of the shit they get, but they're not in charge of releasing body counts.
Attention seeking cretin.
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Attention seeking cretin.
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fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The Mail is at its gutter worst, spraying bullets in all directions. The buck stops with whoever commissioned the refurbishment and signed it off.
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Rich
Moderator
I disagree. I think the buck stops at the people at the BSI (British standards institute) that signed off on the product being suitable many years ago. It not the manufacture, the installer, the main contractor, the building manager or the building owners fault.
They all used a product that has been designed, specified and approved for that specific use.
People may argue that they could've used a better product for more money. Well that's true but why would you?
If it looks the same, does the same job and is signed off by the British standards as being suitable, why pay more if you're not "expecting" to get my benefit from it?
dancers lance
Well-Known Member
I agree, the cladding used met all current regulations and standards and would have been approved by building control. Someone, however, has to answer why a product with a plastic (highly flammable) core was allowed to be used to clad high rise buildings?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Just watching channel four news and isn't Teresa May a hateful bitch. Completely ignoring the questions asked and kept reading from a script.
Otis
Well-Known Member
She's not the nicest is she. Comes across as very cold.
covmark
Well-Known Member
Completely agree. Saw an interview earlier where the interviewer asked what she thought of people saying she was out of order for not meeting with survivors and families of deceased.
She just skirted round the question with a load of bollocks.
She is pretty fucking hopeless tbh.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The knob head who's on now is no better.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
just saw a resident interviewed who said there have been loads of fires in those flats over the years but they've always stayed confined to the flat concerned. Antidotal evidence I know but it looks as though it is the cladding that made it spread.
All because the great and good of Chelsea and Kensington thought it was an eyesore.
I think there could be trouble in London tonight looking at the scenes on social media, hope not. The police there are stretched as it is.
All because the great and good of Chelsea and Kensington thought it was an eyesore.
I think there could be trouble in London tonight looking at the scenes on social media, hope not. The police there are stretched as it is.
Marty
Well-Known Member
Apparently 4000 high rise flats in the UK are without sprinkler systems. At an estimated 44 million (this figure was mentioned in one of the newspapers) to retrofit the systems, you're looking at a cost of £11,000 a block (if my maths is correct). This figure is totally crap. You would be looking at least 200k a block.
To put it into perspective how low the newspapers figures are, the biggest domestic job I've worked on took 4 of us 8 days at a cost of just over 20k. I've been on commercial jobs for months and the sums of money being talked about are eye watering.
To put it into perspective how low the newspapers figures are, the biggest domestic job I've worked on took 4 of us 8 days at a cost of just over 20k. I've been on commercial jobs for months and the sums of money being talked about are eye watering.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Even at 200k it's only 1bn though so compared to foreign aid or warfare or even what the eu costs us it's still small fry.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
It was claimed she couldn't because of security issues. Doesn't seem to have been any security issues for the Queen, Corbyn and Khan who all met them.
If this is true the govt. should resign because it shows an ideological preference for profit over life.
May is finished anyway.
May is finished anyway.
BULLSHIT. Anybody in authority could have set up a help centre to address the problem of numbers;
1) Confirmed Dead
2) Missing
3) Number of known residents
4) Identity (if known) Number and location of Injured
As of today there are friends and relatives STILL looking for this basic information. The media should, on behalf of the public, be asking the authorities to supply this information.
Lilly Allen probably sings better than you too.
1) Confirmed Dead
2) Missing
3) Number of known residents
4) Identity (if known) Number and location of Injured
As of today there are friends and relatives STILL looking for this basic information. The media should, on behalf of the public, be asking the authorities to supply this information.
Lilly Allen probably sings better than you too.
dutchman
Well-Known Member
This wouldn't be so shocking but for being the most Tory newspaper in the country!
Theresa May is slammed for 'inhuman' Newsnight interview | Daily Mail Online
Theresa May is slammed for 'inhuman' Newsnight interview | Daily Mail Online
Sick Boy
Well-Known Member
Wow! Coming from the Mail, that is saying something! To be fair though, if she had of won by a landslide they'd be backing her still.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
or the last round of tax cuts for te high earners which cost 1 billion.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Let's be honest this would have been on neither parties agenda.
I think the strangest thing actually is that it wasn't done when the refurbishment took place as it allegedly cost £10 million.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The downplaying of the death toll is odd. I get that you can't be 100% accurate as you don't know for sure who was in there at the time but to keep throwing around low figures like 12, 17 dead is just wrong.
You know how many flats there are and a good idea of how many were rescued or on floors with no chance of survival. Not that hard to give an estimate.
You know how many flats there are and a good idea of how many were rescued or on floors with no chance of survival. Not that hard to give an estimate.
It was done because of the hatred being stirred up against the Government in general, and T May in particular,whether rightly or wrongly deserved or not is another matter.
Regards.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Labour tabled a bill in 2015 to make homes fit for habitation. 72 tory MPs who are also landlords made sure it was squashed.
the extracts I've seen don't specifically mention cladding or sprinklers however.
Perhaps no surprise that Police and fire minister Nick Hurd voted down the motion.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Yes she is but her type are also extremely dangerous. Intent on using any opportunity no matter how distasteful, as an excuse for a class war.
Music to the ears of the likes of McDonnell.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
11K seems well off to me. I doubt you could buy the hardware for that let alone install it. We do a bit of work for the fire pump industry at work and I've been in a few pump houses in my time and typically they have two pumps, two electric motors, two diesel motors and everything is dual redundant so even the engines have dual batteries which aren't car batteries they're nickel cadmium and expensive as they're far more reliable. Then you have the massive water tank(s) all the associated pipework around the whole structure and sprinkler heads. That's before you start talking about someone going to the site every week (a requirement IIRC) to check the engines start, fuel tanks are full etc. etc.
Don't get me wrong, I think it should be done at least in the communal areas so people have a safe passage to leave the building from. I'd also wrongly always assumed that they'd have these measures already in place. Just making the point that if newspapers are claiming that it can be done for £11k it's massive sensationalism, highly inappropriate and highly unhelpful.
They'd be better off running a campaign to have all non fire retardant cladding removed or replaced, for some basic firefighting training and equipment for all residents of highrise buildings and possibly even the retrofitting of more fire escapes for these buildings as it's become apparent that the majority of these buildings have a single fire escape to serve the whole building. That's if they want to be helpful.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It seems that the refurbishment was all about improving the look though and unless there's underground space a sprinkler system would have meant that a pump house and at least one giant water tank would have been erected next to the block. Which seems to contradict the reasoning behind the refurbishment, so maybe not that surprising.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
I would expect the Councillor to be far better informed than Lily Allen to start with.
Plus, let's be honest - if the community/residents group had gone to her to say 'Look, we've done our own investigations & the cladding they're using is within current regulations - but banned in many countries because of increased risks. So we wondered if, unlike the council who have very constrained finances on this, would you be willing to fork out (£2/m) to buy these much safer ones? Otherwise, we will be living with that nagging worry every day'
Does anyone thinking she would have said anything other than 'You can fuck right off, it's nothing to do with me!'???
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