left wing agitation and John Mcdonnell (1 Viewer)

eastwoodsdustman said:

He's plenty of time on his hands to protest about whatever he likes now hasn't he.
Standing in opposition to Mclusky was a protest in itself and he's been removed from his position because of it.

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Indeed - democracy Len style

Grendel said:

Dear old Len McClusky is on about mobilising the workforce in a series of strikes to bring down the Government. Dear old Len - lets ignore the ballot box and try to weaken the economy for political ideology no one wants.

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Yes, let's let McLusky take us back to the 'good old days' of Red Robbo and his communist mates. That'll do wonders for the country, just as it did in the '70s. Having lived and worked in the USSR in the '80s and early '90s, I've seen enough of the Marxism/Leninism doctrine, thank you very much.

Grendel said:

So what do you think is the benefit of nationalising the energy companies?

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to me the country should have a nucleus of reliable transport and utilities industries run for the benefit of the country with all profits used to reduce costs or ploughed back into infrastructure.

Of course, there are two big potential draw backs, firstly the cost of buying them back, (not really relevant to transport), and they have to be well run otherwise they'll drain public money.
Billions of pounds in dividends has gone out of this country to foreign investors when it could have been reinvested.

eastwoodsdustman said:

He's plenty of time on his hands to protest about whatever he likes now hasn't he.
Standing in opposition to Mclusky was a protest in itself and he's been removed from his position because of it.

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is that why he was removed? You're wrong again mate.
I'm in unite, some of the e-mails I received from coyne amounted to slander. He's lucky he didn't end up in court.
I'm not McCluskeys biggest fan but the mails were wrong, simple as that.

I've never been to the States during a presidential election, but I've been there during other elections, (local or whatever they're called). People pay for adverts on the telly which don't put forward their ideas or policies, they just do a hatchet job on their opposition. Is that the way we want to go in this country because that's the road Coyne was going down.

Ian1779 said:

Trying to suggest that McDonnell is whipping up a frenzy on the back of a tragedy is ridiculous. There are valid questions that need answering - would you feel the same if it was someone in your family that died?

If you want to discuss agitation generally then lets just put up a compendium of Daily Mail front pages.

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Grenfell fire was just before midnight 14th Jun, on 15th McDonnell called for marches. He is a nasty piece of work.
McDonnell urges a million to join march and 'force new election'
John McDonnell calls for one million protesters to take to the streets in bid to oust Theresa May
‘We want a MILLION on the streets’ Labour’s John McDonnell urges UPRISING to take down May
John McDonnell calls for a million to join protest and pressure May into new election
'A million people should take to the streets to force Theresa May from power'
John McDonnell demands mass protest to oust Theresa May | Daily Mail Online

Captain Dart said:

Grenfell fire was just before midnight 14th Jun, on 15th McDonnell called for marches. He is a nasty piece of work.
McDonnell urges a million to join march and 'force new election'
John McDonnell calls for one million protesters to take to the streets in bid to oust Theresa May
‘We want a MILLION on the streets’ Labour’s John McDonnell urges UPRISING to take down May
John McDonnell calls for a million to join protest and pressure May into new election
'A million people should take to the streets to force Theresa May from power'
John McDonnell demands mass protest to oust Theresa May | Daily Mail Online

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Thanks for proving it has fuck all to do with Grenfell

Ian1779 said:

Thanks for proving it has fuck all to do with Grenfell

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Au contraire, he opportunistically and shamelessly used a tragedy to promote civil unrest.

Captain Dart said:

Au contraire, he opportunistically and shamelessly used a tragedy to promote civil unrest.

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No he didn't - he made his comments in relation to May not be able to put together any semblence of a government to rule... and 2 weeks later she's not any further along.

If he really was trying to use the tragedy don't you find it strange that not one of those papers that you referenced made that connection. Even they knew that the link was so ludicrous they were not prepared to put their already hammered reputations up for more scrutiny.

In fact the only reason that people like you are pedalling this nonsense is to distract from the fact that a) we still don't have a workable government, b) we've already been made an idiot of by the EU after less than a full week of negotiations and c) the systematic failings of this goverment in relations to public service cuts are now being laid bare.

Then of course we have 90+% of your beloved government blocking a motion to make private rented accomodation fit for human habitation.

I would say those 312 Tory MP's shamelessly put profit before the idea of people living in a state of human decency.

Ian1779 said:

Then of course we have 90+% of your beloved government blocking a motion to make private rented accomodation fit for human habitation.

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Camden council, Labour since 1971, could you assess their performance with relation to building safety as they start panic evacuation of 1000's of residents.

Captain Dart said:

Camden council, Labour since 1971, could you assess their performance with relation to building safety as they start panic evacuation of 1000's of residents.

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At least they are putting the safety of it's residents first.

Captain Dart said:

Camden council, Labour since 1971, could you assess their performance with relation to building safety as they start panic evacuation of 1000's of residents.

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From the information currently available seems to be a different situation.

Camden have had the cladding tested and discovered it does not meet the level of fire safety they requested and paid for. They have said they will be taking legal action because of this.

Contrast that with a council that were repeatedly told there was a problem and chose to ignore it, even threatening legal action against those pointing out the issues.

This evacuation is as much about insurance claims as actual realistic safety issues. It would be cheaper and practically risk free to install temporary fire alarms on all floors and pay fire wardens for 6 weeks or so to patrol the buildings 24/7 while doing necessary remedial works and let the residents stay in their homes. The disruption of moving out & back is likely to have its own negative consequences. Many of the residents themselves are unhappy about this, they don't feel they're being looked after and are simply pawns in a game of various parties making sure they absolve themselves of all blame and liability.

Captain Dart said:

This evacuation is as much about insurance claims as actual realistic safety issues. It would be cheaper and practically risk free to install temporary fire alarms on all floors and pay fire wardens for 6 weeks or so to patrol the buildings 24/7 while doing necessary remedial works and let the residents stay in their homes. The disruption of moving out & back is likely to have its own negative consequences. Many of the residents themselves are unhappy about this, they don't feel they're being looked after and are simply pawns in a game of various parties making sure they absolve themselves of all blame and liability.

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The evacuation was carried out on the advice of the fire service.

Georgia Gould said:

“But I said to fire services, is there anything I can do to make this block safe tonight? I offered to pay for fire services to be stationed outside those blocks just so we could have a couple of days to get the works done, but the message was [that there was] nothing to do to make blocks safe that night.”

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The fire brigade won't even allow residents in to collect possessions without an escort.

Personally, no matter how inconvenient, I'd want to be moved out immediately if a problem came to light. Imagine if the council ignored the report from specialists and the recommendations of the fire brigade and there was a fire.

chiefdave said:

The evacuation was carried out on the advice of the fire service.

The fire brigade won't even allow residents in to collect possessions without an escort.

Personally, no matter how inconvenient, I'd want to be moved out immediately if a problem came to light. Imagine if the council ignored the report from specialists and the recommendations of the fire brigade and there was a fire.

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There were 1,827 road fatalities in 2013, in the same year there were 350 deaths attributed to fire, 266 of which in dwellings. Lets stop all car journeys then shall we.
There were also 381 deaths due to drowning so swimming is out of the question too.

Captain Dart said:

There were 1,827 road fatalities in 2013, in the same year there were 350 deaths attributed to fire, 266 of which in dwellings. Lets stop all car journeys then shall we.
There were also 381 deaths due to drowning so swimming is out too.

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Bit of a odd comparison that isn't it? How many of those road fatalities were self inflicted driver errors (going too fast, avoiding police, under the influence, on phones, not concentrating , poor decision making etc.)

I'm sure if all of those fatalities were due to faulty cars and engines something would definitely be done about it.

Captain Dart said:

There were 1,827 road fatalities in 2013, in the same year there were 350 deaths attributed to fire, 266 of which in dwellings. Lets stop all car journeys then shall we.
There were also 381 deaths due to drowning so swimming is out of the question too.

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If 100 people died because of a fault with a particular car and it was found that another car had the same problem would you happily ignore the experts or expect something to be done?

Tests have been carried out by experts, both they and the fire brigade have said the blocks are not safe for anyone to be in. When they won't even let people in to get their belongs without a fire brigade escort do you not think it indicates a concern?

What would you say if the issue was ignored and an incident occurred?

BTW, the deaths attributed to fire will be lower than the true figure. When the government made cuts they also changed what was classified as a death attributed to fire. For example anyone who jumped out of the Greenfell Tower to escape the fire and died wouldn't be counted as a fire death.

Captain Dart said:

There were 1,827 road fatalities in 2013, in the same year there were 350 deaths attributed to fire, 266 of which in dwellings. Lets stop all car journeys then shall we.
There were also 381 deaths due to drowning so swimming is out of the question too.

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How many of those deaths were due to failure of manufactured items?

Captain Dart said:

There were 1,827 road fatalities in 2013, in the same year there were 350 deaths attributed to fire, 266 of which in dwellings. Lets stop all car journeys then shall we.
There were also 381 deaths due to drowning so swimming is out of the question too.

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You are really all over the place with this one aren't you. Everything you've put up has been refuted and you keep moving the goalposts. just accept you're wrong on this one and move on.

Liquid Gold said:

You are really all over the place with this one aren't you. Everything you've put up has been refuted and you keep moving the goalposts. just accept you're wrong on this one and move on.

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You really don't understand do you, I never said there wasn't a problem that needs resolving, but I do say there has been an over reaction and the current measures are panic stricken.
Remedial works can reasonably be done in a more measured manner without disturbing people so badly. All it needs is a few temporary measures to ensure that in the unlikely event of a fire it is tackled quickly & effectively. The risk levels of staying put are not abnormally high, moving out and being forced to stay in a crowded unsanitary sports centre or the like is probably quite risky in itself.

The evacuations are more about Councils covering their arses than actual risk & danger.

Captain Dart said:

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How is Camden Council not being supplied with the standard of cladding they commissioned and paid for the same as Kensington Council choosing a cheaper option and ignoring repeated warnings?

If anything this shows that what Labour has been saying is correct. That the regulations, the same regulations the Conservatives want to relax, are not strict enough.

The Government will not force private landlords of high-rise buildings to fire-test them, even if they are fitted with similar cladding to Grenfell Tower, Downing Street has said.

Instead, No 10. said it “expected” private landlords to voluntarily use the testing facility that is being used by council or housing association blocks.

It added that the government expects private landlords to be "responsible" and councils to relay what is expected of them.

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Because private landlords are well known for being responsible and being concerned about the safety of their tenants.

Captain Dart said:

Remedial works can reasonably be done in a more measured manner without disturbing people so badly. All it needs is a few temporary measures to ensure that in the unlikely event of a fire it is tackled quickly & effectively. The risk levels of staying put are not abnormally high, moving out and being forced to stay in a crowded unsanitary sports centre or the like is probably quite risky in itself.

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I get it. What you're saying is that your knowledge is superior to that of the experts carrying out the tests and the fire service. They've both said the blocks should be evacuated immediately but obviously you know better.

chiefdave said:

I get it. What you're saying is that your knowledge is superior to that of the experts carrying out the tests and the fire service. They've both said the blocks should be evacuated immediately but obviously you know better.

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Many of the residents agree with my analysis...
Locals confused and angry over tower evacuations in Camden - BBC News
they are far from happy with this upheaval.

Captain Dart said:

Many of the residents agree with my analysis...
Locals confused and angry over tower evacuations in Camden - BBC News
they are far from happy with this upheaval.

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And the better option is to leave them in there? What if it goes up in flames?

McDonnell is out today saying the Grenfell victims were 'murdered'. More dog whistling and incitement from him, he knows exactly what he's doing

best not say anything eh?

McDonnell is a spiteful wanker,Back to being a protest party and Corbyn at Glastonbury peddling his nonsense.
Didn't see any of them supporting armed forces day!!
Just wondered where in the world a socialist government has been successful and good for the people?

westcountry_skyblue said:

McDonnell is a spiteful wanker,Back to being a protest party and Corbyn at Glastonbury peddling his nonsense.
Didn't see any of them supporting armed forces day!!
Just wondered where in the world a socialist government has been successful and good for the people?

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do you think the current tory government is successful?

westcountry_skyblue said:

McDonnell is a spiteful wanker,Back to being a protest party and Corbyn at Glastonbury peddling his nonsense.
Didn't see any of them supporting armed forces day!!
Just wondered where in the world a socialist government has been successful and good for the people?

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The Labour Party would actually do something about the 10K homeless former soldiers rather than the Tory's paying lip service whilst rewarding bankers with bonuses after 2008 and selling off the NHS to their mates.

Given it was a socialist government that gave us the NHS, and the welfare state (national insurance etc to pay for it), you don't have to look far for a successful government, good for the people...

clint van damme said:

do you think the current tory government is successful?

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You didn't answer the question,Even in their current plight they'd still beat the commies!!

westcountry_skyblue said:

You didn't answer the question,Even in their current plight they'd still beat the commies!!

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Several Scandinavian countries for starters. Though the definition of socialism is open to debate. I'd imagine for you it's any country that doesn't send poor children up chimneys.

this government is appalling.
Growth lower than Greece.
Wages contracted by 10% since 2007.
Missed it's targets on debt reduction, not only that but borrowing through the roof.
Slashed police numbers leading to security issues.
Governing without majority and trying to do deal with a party of creationists....the list is endless.

NorthernWisdom said:

Given it was a socialist government that gave us the NHS, and the welfare state (national insurance etc to pay for it), you don't have to look far for a successful government, good for the people...

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Wasn't that 70 years ago? think the world has changed since then but here's a few clues.
USSR,Eastern block,Cuba,Endless African countries,Venezuela,China,Vietnam,Laos,North Korea?