Another Gilbert tease.

Discussion in 'Coventry City General Chat' started by Captain Dart, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. kmj5000

    kmj5000 Member

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    But then it was badly-managed, was loosing money, and had no tenant.
     
  2. kmj5000

    kmj5000 Member

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    You can pay off your mortgage then?
     
  3. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    Poor analogy. The bond is a bit like an interest only mortgage rather than a repayment one.
     
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  4. kmj5000

    kmj5000 Member

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    It still doesn't make them insolvent though does it?
     
  5. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Yes as the valuation was projected not actual. As part of the bond agreement there were supposed to have another valuation. To my knowledge that hasn't happened.
     
  6. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    It will make them homeless if they can't afford to pay for it. Not exactly solvent is it?
     
  7. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    It makes them reliant on borrowing to exist, but I suppose that is the way in the age of credit.
     
  8. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    I think we all knew this. May I add that wasps have a good team and aren't they top? Europe?

    What about when the bubble bursts and a few people don't go anymore.

    Trouble is they will find a way out of it so expect them to still be here past 2022 sadly.
     
  9. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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    Never was going to be paid back in full at the end of term except by borrowing from somewhere else, anyone know what commercial rates are like on deals like that?

    I notice Richardson is propping Wasps up, I've said several times before he would. Others have questioned his ability to find the money but I think he has up to £10M available, that will see them out till the bond scheme completes.

    Both CCFC & Wasps are turning their finances round, but in very different ways.
     
  10. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    Ha BenjaminBuck on the comments all over the telegraph, I am not sure it could be any more obvious.
     
  11. dongonzalos

    dongonzalos Well-Known Member

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    Glad this thread has stayed here. Never really did see the point of having a separate Wasps section.
     
  12. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    Nothing new to see in this article, it was analysed by a number of people on this site about 3 weeks ago and Mr Carvells comments by and large agree with that. Much better analysis from him on this than the one he did for CCFC imo.

    As for the headline - who writes these at the CT? - misleading surely most people realised that Wasps would need to refinance. We have discussed that on this site since 2015. The headline makes it seem like it is imminent - it isn't. They can choose to refinance from 2019 onwards but have to probably refinance by May 2022. Refinance could be another bond, a loan or even floating the company as a PLC. Plenty of options

    Given the background of the people in charge at Wasps, then if we can see the need to refinance it is reasonable to think this is something they have planned for. So hardly a shock

    The immediate problem for Wasps is meeting the bond covenant conditions each year. These underpin the bond itself. They need to increase operating profits, that will mean recovering or driving down costs as well as increasing income. Getting a sponsor signed up would of course help with achieving the necessary levels.

    Are Wasps insolvent - no. Can it meet its liabilities as it falls due - no evidence they can not. Do they have financial support of the owners - it would seem so. They appear to have equity available in their fixed assets. It would seem they have the ability to source finance. Cash flow is tight there is an expectation of improvement in 2nd six months

    Bond price - doesn't represent a valuation of the company as such - provides an indication of what investors think of the risk, amongst other things. When results last six months came out 28/02/17 101p now currently 104p. No panic about repayment there it would seem

    The article that is of most interest to CCFC fans in the last 24 hours is not this one, I doubt other news outlets have been clamouring for this story as claimed
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  13. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    only here don because everyone thought it would be something to do with CCFC - it isnt
     
  14. italiahorse

    italiahorse Well-Known Member

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    Are they Wankers because they only get 6.5% and their money back when the bond is reissued or because they could have got 10% with SISU/CCFC and no chance of there money back ?
     
  15. torchomatic

    torchomatic Well-Known Member

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    They're wankers because they shouldn't be here.
     
  16. dongonzalos

    dongonzalos Well-Known Member

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    I know, it isn't and it hasn't been moved. Which I think is good, personally.
    There are some people on this site who think that SISU are killing time waiting for Wasps to have to sell the Ricoh.
    So personally I think any stories such as this still have a relevance here and people choose to read them or not.
    I also think when Wasps are doing something marketing or promotions wise that we are not it's worth going on here and discussing as well. Whether CCFC should be doing the same or not.
     
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  17. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    Why are you making out they get deleted or moved to a different site? It goes to a sub forum FFS.
     
  18. oldfiver

    oldfiver Well-Known Member

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    The first 2 years of "interest" was paid by the original investors themselves
    A sum was set aside from the initial funding to make the payments
    Until the investors sell their bonds or they are repaid they have actually not received those 2 years interest payments
     
  19. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    Not really the same is it? It would be like buying a house for £250K and the bank giving you a £2m mortgage!

    We know lots of businesses survive on credit but a lot also go out of business and nobody knows how things will stand when they need to renew the bonds, will be interesting if they fail to meet the conditions of the bonds and the valuation, and lack of the required second valuation, has never sat well with me.

    Its certainly not Wasps about to go out of business but it would be naïve to suggest its all plain sailing for them.
    This is why its in Wasps advantage to suppress CCFC. Increase costs at the Ricoh alongside a poorer matchday experience is of benefit to Wasps. In the unlikely event we got back to the Championship or PL it would inevitably have an impact on Wasps both in terms of attendance and local sponsors.

    All this makes me wonder what will be revealed next. The two most recent articles from the CT don't really sit with the message they have been pushing for the last couple of years - why the change?
     
  20. italiahorse

    italiahorse Well-Known Member

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    That's not a financial answer though.
    Financially they are better off here than Wycombe, surely ?


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  21. dongonzalos

    dongonzalos Well-Known Member

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    Not making out anything. That's exactly what I mean the sub forum FFS.
    Much better off having it here in the main section where everyone reads.
    As long as it in someway may affect CCFC. Such as Wasps accounts, sponsorship deals marketing ideas that CCFC could use. Especially those who think Wasps will go bust and we are waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces.
    I get news about Wasps scores or who they sign not been here.
     
  22. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    Yes, it goes to a sub forum on the same site. If people want to read it they will. It's how forums work.
     
  23. dongonzalos

    dongonzalos Well-Known Member

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    More people will be on this today discussing it, than if you knew beforehand and tucked it away in the sub forum.
    I accept a lot of the discussion is on Gilbert's build up. However more discussion is now stimulated and us about the actual finances.
    If this was known to be about the finances and Wasps straight away and put in the sub section, there will be many who would not even know it is there.
     
  24. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    Yes, and that's the whole idea of sections of a forum. The same as off topic stuff goes in off topic and other football goes in that section.

    Probably stick to waffling on about Robins.
     
  25. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Zzzzzzzzz
     
  26. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    It's a good way to deflect the fact that it's no news for Dongo to start going on about the section it's in though isn't it ;)
     
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  27. skybluebeduff

    skybluebeduff Well-Known Member

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  28. Terry Gibson's perm

    Terry Gibson's perm Well-Known Member

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    As the chief says they are making the matchday experience poor with over zealous stewards etc, the biggest problem for The London team would be us getting into the higher leagues as nobody would be interested in their little pastime, luckily for them we have Sisu helping them drive the experience down as well.
     
  29. Moff

    Moff Well-Known Member

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    Unless Financial markets give it a low (poor rating) as a risk to get your money back and then people will invest elsewhere. Have seen it happen and follow these events with my onw investments. You will try to bat this off, but if its the case it doesn't bode well for Wasps...... Good!
     
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  30. Moff

    Moff Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the debt. Depends if they can pay it back.
    Getting low attendances but being solvent is better than a big shiny stadium, loads of free tickets and tacky flags and being insolvent, isn't it.
     
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  31. italiahorse

    italiahorse Well-Known Member

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    Yes loving watching CCFC at the moment and hating watching Wasps


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  32. Moff

    Moff Well-Known Member

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    Nicely side stepped the Wycombe Wasps and Coventry Wasps analogy there ;)
     
  33. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    Depends which way you look at it.

    It was better for Richardson. He took 10m out of the money raised from what he had loaned to Wasps. But they were much closer to their own supporters. And was it costing them 2m in interest alone each year? On top of that it is losing them money. In 2022 they will still owe what they owe now after paying 2m a year.

    It might be theirs. But they still need to pay for it.
     
  34. Astute

    Astute Well-Known Member

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    I don't hate watching Wasps. I will never waste my money watching them.
     
  35. RegTheDonk

    RegTheDonk Well-Known Member

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    Don't understand the finances one bit...but if they can't pay now and have to re-finance at some point, when they are currently aruguably the best side in the country in their particular field, what hope have they for a bright future? Surely in stature and standing, the amount of people supporting them and buying their merchandise, it can't get much better than it currently is?
     
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