Bin men strikes (2 Viewers)

[NorthernWisdom]

£20k would be pretty decent for a job you can walk into without qualifications and experience. There are graduate jobs with degrees and experience needed for much less than that.

The point being, I don't need to get out the house at 4 in the morning and clean up other peoples' shit.

I think that deserves valuing more than it is.

 

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[Nick]

Do they leave their house and 4 in the morning and do they clean up other people's shit though nowadays?

Granted years ago when they would be up people's gardens and alleys picking up all the black bags and carrying them down to the lorry it was a different story.

 

[Marty]

The point being, I don't need to get out the house at 4 in the morning and clean up other peoples' shit.

I think that deserves valuing more than it is.

Tbf, bin men don't clean up people's shit, they move a wheelie bin 5 foot from the edge of the curb to the back of the truck and back again. They have plenty of reasons to not do it. Too heavy, too full, not full enough, wrong waste etc.

What gives people the reason to excel if we can all go and be bin men or work in McDonalds for 40k a year?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Tbf, bin men don't clean up people's shit, they move a wheelie bin 5 foot from the edge of the curb to the back of the truck and back again. They have plenty of reasons to not do it. Too heavy, too full, not full enough, wrong waste etc.

So why doesn't everybody apply to do it, if it's that great? Why are you wasting your life not being a bin man?

 

[Marty]

So why doesn't everybody apply to do it, if it's that great? Why are you wasting your life not being a bin man?

Where did I say it's a great job? I'm telling it like it is, unskilled labour that anyone could literally be fully trained in an hour. They get what they deserve and the supervisor on 30k is vastly overpaid.

 

[hill83]

Some jobs are overpaid, some are underpaid.
I knew exactly what I was getting into when I studied IT and it wasn't for the love of it. It was the cash.

Had a falling out with the wife's sister a few months ago as she was saying she wasn't paid enough for the work she puts in as a nursery nurse.
She is spot on. But I said to her that she knew what she was getting into before she trained for it. She fell out with me. I went to the pub.

As for the benefits side of things. I was brought up in a single parent non working household. It's not fun and games and I often went hungry.

Anyone who thinks that they wouldn't be better off working instead of claiming benefits based on the starting salary is a plonker. Take the job, get experience get a better job.

 

[fernandopartridge]

FP, I was a purchasing manager for years, I had 40+ staff, buyers, blanket order buyers, purchase ledger staff etc... I had the power to list products with large multi nationals, nationals and 'tied in' independents.
As a buyer, when you are offering an 'opportunity' to list a product to a potential supplier you would know that your job is to force down the wholesale price (therefore maximising profit and reducing risk), and include an over rider, surely you would be well aware that these are only achieved buy the supplier being able to get that product produced at the lowest cost? And you would be well aware that labour would be the first 'port of call'

Yes, I am well aware of all that. It goes up and down the chain mind you.

 

[chiefdave]

Tbf, bin men don't clean up people's shit, they move a wheelie bin 5 foot from the edge of the curb to the back of the truck and back again.

Would be nice if they put them back where they took them from and not some random point in the street.

 

[Astute]

Plenty of jobs are below the average wage though. You could go to uni and get a degree and have 5 years experience in the job and still be below the average wage.

If all jobs were then raised to be closer to the average wage then surely the average would just go up when other jobs go up because of it? Not just bin men.

I am not saying it is an amazing wage, I am saying it isn't as bad as being made out for a job somebody could potentially walk into from leaving school with no qualifications. If you believed everything from this thread it would be that being on £17k would have people searching through the bins to get food, and that binmen are tidying people's houses for them.

I'm not saying bin men are scum of the earth and they don't deserve to be paid etc. I am just saying that there are plenty of other jobs where people are outside all day, plenty of other manual jobs and jobs that aren't the best working conditions. Surely they should all get a pay rise as well if it's on that basis?

Surely like you knowing exactly how to fix a machine and engineering your wife would be trained and experienced to know how to do things in IT? It's the same with most jobs.

Nobody here has said that binmen should get a raise. What is being said....other than yourself....is that it is a fair pay for a job that isn't easy at times. A lot of people couldn't handle walking all day. Just like I couldn't handle being in an office tied to a desk all day.

You take your choices in life. You either train for something or you don't. I had to go straight to work when I left school. After starting work I started training in what I wanted to do. Then I had to get experience in what I trained for. I finally got the job I wanted in my late 20's.

 

[Nick]

Nobody here has said that binmen should get a raise. What is being said....other than yourself....is that it is a fair pay for a job that isn't easy at times. A lot of people couldn't handle walking all day. Just like I couldn't handle being in an office tied to a desk all day.

You take your choices in life. You either train for something or you don't. I had to go straight to work when I left school. After starting work I started training in what I wanted to do. Then I had to get experience in what I trained for. I finally got the job I wanted in my late 20's.

It's been said pay should go up rather than benefits go down etc. Insinuated a fair few times throughout the thread they should be paid more.

Of course you take your choices, you could either train and develop and work your way into a career / trade or you can stick at an unskilled job.

How do you define what is a good salary for a job or not?

 

[Astute]

As for the benefits side of things. I was brought up in a single parent non working household. It's not fun and games and I often went hungry.

Anyone who thinks that they wouldn't be better off working instead of claiming benefits based on the starting salary is a plonker. Take the job, get experience get a better job.

I know the feeling. Either my mother didn't work or she had to put long hours in and we didn't see her. We looked after ourselves. There wasn't the same in work benefits on the oldern days.

If you are jealous of someone's wage train for the job they have. If you earn more then count yourself lucky.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It's been said pay should go up rather than benefits go down etc. Insinuated a fair few times throughout the thread they should be paid more.

Of course you take your choices, you could either train and develop and work your way into a career / trade or you can stick at an unskilled job.

How do you define what is a good salary for a job or not?

What happens when we get to the point where nobody, despite their lack of skill, wants to do a job due to the low pay and crap conditions? What would we do?

 

[Nick]

As for the benefits side of things. I was brought up in a single parent non working household. It's not fun and games and I often went hungry.

Anyone who thinks that they wouldn't be better off working instead of claiming benefits based on the starting salary is a plonker. Take the job, get experience get a better job.

That's the thing, if people are saying a bin man job is £17k starting and there's no incentive because of benefits how does that work?

I know a fair few people who refuse to work less than 16 hours though because they are better off that way, no idea how they work it though.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Where did I say it's a great job? I'm telling it like it is, unskilled labour that anyone could literally be fully trained in an hour. They get what they deserve and the supervisor on 30k is vastly overpaid.

What's your benchmark for saying anybody is overpaid? £30k a year is just a smidgen over the average salary in the UK. An equivalent person who supervised a small team sat in the office would get more than that most likely.

 

[hill83]

I know a fair few people who refuse to work less than 16 hours though because they are better off that way, no idea how they work it though.

That short sighted thinking really annoys me. Yes you'll be worse off to begin with, but you'll be working. Gaining experience and increasing your chances of being a lot better off in the future.

Edit: Hang on, refuse to work less than 16 hours? I read it as more.
Anyway. I'm still annoyed.

 

[Nick]

What happens when we get to the point where nobody, despite their lack of skill, wants to do a job due to the low pay and crap conditions? What would we do?

It comes down to people's expectations though doesn't it? The same as people speaking like £17k is a pittance, when in reality there are hundreds of jobs where potentially they aren't the best working conditions or manual where you wouldn't get close to £17k. Neither would you get the opportunity for overtime etc where you can bump it up. Not many of them would have a union also.

 

[Astute]

It's been said pay should go up rather than benefits go down etc. Insinuated a fair few times throughout the thread they should be paid more.

Of course you take your choices, you could either train and develop and work your way into a career / trade or you can stick at an unskilled job.

How do you define what is a good salary for a job or not?

You was moaning that a binman got paid more than you when you was training then getting experience. But you are less a use when training and then getting experience. The binman will have started on a better wage. But he won't ever earn a fortune in an unskilled job.

To me a good wage for a job is where there are enough applicants for vacancies and they are paid enough to want to stay on the role. Otherwise they will keep moving on to better paid jobs.

 

[fernandopartridge]

That's the thing, if people are saying a bin man job is £17k starting and there's no incentive because of benefits how does that work?

I know a fair few people who refuse to work less than 16 hours though because they are better off that way, no idea how they work it though.

You're not considered as employed if you work less than 16 hours, so are potentially entitled to certain benefits like JSA depending on how much you earn.

 

[Astute]

It comes down to people's expectations though doesn't it? The same as people acting like £17k is a pittance, when in reality there are hundreds of jobs where potentially they aren't the best working conditions or manual where you wouldn't get close to £17k. Neither would you get the opportunity for overtime etc where you can bump it up.

So who has said 17k is a pittance for the job of a binman?

 

[hotrod]

Would be nice if they put them back where they took them from and not some random point in the street.

Today my neighbour placed a piece of cardboard 6'x 3' at the side of his bin as it would not fit, the dustmen refused to take it, the cart was only two yards away, they could have thrown it in to the back,but no. The driver regularly drives over grass verges in our close to save his men walking an extra ten yards.

Regards.

 

[Nick]

So who has said 17k is a pittance for the job of a binman?

Earlier in the thread, it was along the lines of it being a shite salary and not enough to live on.

 

[Astute]

Earlier in the thread, it was along the lines of it being a shite salary and not enough to live on.

Do you mean when you said a low wage of about that is a struggle to get by on that you used to be on when inflation was taken into account?

 

[Nick]

You was moaning that a binman got paid more than you when you was training then getting experience. But you are less a use when training and then getting experience. The binman will have started on a better wage. But he won't ever earn a fortune in an unskilled job.

To me a good wage for a job is where there are enough applicants for vacancies and they are paid enough to want to stay on the role. Otherwise they will keep moving on to better paid jobs.

I've never had a trainee job so have always had to do the actual job so I was of use because I was still doing the job hired for.

A binman could potentially progress up to £30k couldn't they? Again, that's not to be sniffed at and it does at that point become more skilled as they have the additional driving license / experience that opens up avenues.

Is there a shortage of binmen at the minute?

 

[Astute]

I've never had a trainee job so have always had to do the actual job so I was of use because I was still doing the job hired for.

A binman could potentially progress up to £30k couldn't they? Again, that's not to be sniffed at and it does at that point become more skilled as they have the additional driving license / experience that opens up avenues.

Is there a shortage of binmen at the minute?

So you agree that those on a living wage are more skilled than just pulling bins around?

 

[hill83]

When I moved into where I live now our recycling bin was rammed with bricks and shit that shouldn't have been in there from whoever owned the house before us.
The binmen refused to take it as it was too heavy. It absolutely stunk and there was no way I was emptying it so I paid for a firm to empty and clean it.
2 blokes turned up in a van and they found out it was 70% rotting water. They poured it out into the drain in the street and I'm not joking, the entire street stunk of shit and the pair of them where throwing up in the back of their van covered in it, it was rank. I was crying with laughter.
They said they clear up clinical waste and rotten animal parts etc from food prep factories and this was the worst job they'd ever had.

Best £60 I've ever spent.

 

[Nick]

So you agree that those on a living wage are more skilled than just pulling bins around?

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? I've pointed out there are plenty of jobs more skilled for less money than a binman and for more money.

 

[Nick]

When I moved into where I live now our recycling bin was rammed with bricks and shit that shouldn't have been in there from whoever owned the house before us.
The binmen refused to take it as it was too heavy. It absolutely stunk and there was no way I was emptying it so I paid for a firm to empty and clean it.
2 blokes turned up in a van and they found out it was 70% rotting water. They poured it out into the drain in the street and I'm not joking, the entire street stunk of shit and the pair of them where throwing up in the back of their van covered in it, it was rank. I was crying with laughter.
They said they clear up clinical waste and rotten animal parts etc from food prep factories and this was the worst job they'd ever had.

Best £60 I've ever spent.

I've had ones like that, was one where it was half full with grass but the top open so it filled with water and then the sun got on it.

 

[Astute]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? I've pointed out there are plenty of jobs more skilled for less money than a binman and for more money.

Don't worry. I don't think anyone knows what point you are trying to make :smuggrin:

 

[Nick]

Do you mean when you said a low wage of about that is a struggle to get by on that you used to be on when inflation was taken into account?

Yep, for somebody supporting a wife who wasn't working, paying a mortgage, kids, 2 cars etc it was a bit uncomfortable on £17k at the time.

If somebody had a big mortgage to pay, a family to support, kids to feed then £17k wouldn't cut it on it's own. I don't dispute that. However, nor would thousands of other jobs and salaries that are less than £17k. What about those?

You change that to a 21/22 year old lad who lives with parents with not many outgoings and no qualifications and £17k a year for 4 or 5 years could quite easily put £500 a month away to save for a mortgage compared to the wage he would get working at McDonalds, ASDA or minimum wage picking and packing somewhere.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

If you are jealous of someone's wage train for the job they have. If you earn more then count yourself lucky.

While I generally agree with this, some people don't have the opportunity to train again.

It's often significant that people who get jobs in certain careers are those who come from well-off enough backgrounds that they can afford to take the hit of a lower / no salary while they build up experience, and can be picky about what they choose. Sometimes, the need for a wage consumes everything else.

I do agree if you're lucky enough to be able to choose to go on to further education / apprenticeships etc. then to a degree that's your choice. Doesn't stop some jobs being vastly undervalued in my view, though.

 

[Nick]

Don't worry. I don't think anyone knows what point you are trying to make :smuggrin:

That £17k for a starting out binman isn't as bad as being made out... That's all!

 

[Astute]

While I generally agree with this, some people don't have the opportunity to train again.

It's often significant that people who get jobs in certain careers are those who come from well-off enough backgrounds that they can afford to take the hit of a lower / no salary while they build up experience, and can be picky about what they choose. Sometimes, the need for a wage consumes everything else.

I do agree if you're lucky enough to be able to choose to go on to further education / apprenticeships etc. then to a degree that's your choice. Doesn't stop some jobs being vastly undervalued in my view, though.

I didn't really have the opportunity. But I trained whilst working. Had years of lack of money and no time to myself. But I didn't mind too much as I didn't have the spare time to spend the money I didn't have.

 

[Astute]

That £17k for a starting out binman isn't as bad as being made out... That's all!

Less than £1500 a month before stoppages. So between £1200 and £1300 a month take home?

Rent somewhere to live. About £600. Not a lot left is there? As I said not a decent living wage. Didn't say it was good or bad for a binman.

 

[Nick]

I didn't really have the opportunity. But I trained whilst working. Had years of lack of money and no time to myself. But I didn't mind too much as I didn't have the spare time to spend the money I didn't have.

Same as me pretty much .

 

[fernandopartridge]

When I moved into where I live now our recycling bin was rammed with bricks and shit that shouldn't have been in there from whoever owned the house before us.
The binmen refused to take it as it was too heavy. It absolutely stunk and there was no way I was emptying it so I paid for a firm to empty and clean it.
2 blokes turned up in a van and they found out it was 70% rotting water. They poured it out into the drain in the street and I'm not joking, the entire street stunk of shit and the pair of them where throwing up in the back of their van covered in it, it was rank. I was crying with laughter.
They said they clear up clinical waste and rotten animal parts etc from food prep factories and this was the worst job they'd ever had.

Best £60 I've ever spent.

Somebody left a similar bin the alleyway behind my house. I phoned the council and they sorted it, same situation, full of water and all sorts of shite and immovable.