CCFC 10 years from now... (1 Viewer)

[Rory83]

I'm sure this has been done to death, but I'm curious. Those of you who've seen it all and those who are newer to the club. Where do you see us in 10 years time?

Will we have a club? A stadium of our own? Premier League or Vanarama?

Personally I think we'll be ok, but I doubt I'll see us back in the Prem in my lifetime, which is depressing given I'm in my mid 30's.

 

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[Suffolk sky blues]

I think we will have new owners but it's a long way back.

 

[Rory83]

Sometimes it feels like we are yesterday's man. The footballing elite have moved so far ahead of us. The forgotten football club.

I think a massive part of our identity demise has been the loss of Highfield Road. It was synonymous with the club and Jimmy Hill's vision. The Ricoh has turned into a bad dream, which the man himself pretty much foresaw.

 

[ccfcway]

After 2 draws and a defeat, the victory against Brackley Town this weekend will give manager Carl baker and his team a real boost. The 1st goal of the season from the returning George Thomas has propelled the sky blues into the top half of the webuyanycar.com South league table.

With 2 days to go until the transfer window closes, Carl is leaving no stone unturned in his efforts to bring in some new faces to the Coome Abbey arena.

In other related CCFC news, owners of the club, SISU have announced they are appealing the court decision to decline a request for JR6.

 

[bawtryneal]

After the first two games I was full of hope and optimism. After the last two the complete opposite
As every year that goes by I care less and less, so probably ten years from now I will not give a flying shit.

 

[skyblueinBaku]

In 10 years time, I hope I'm still around to know the answers to those questions!

 

[CJ_covblaze]

We'll be mentioned in a milk advert.

 

[ccfcway]

We'll be mentioned in a milk advert.

there's a joke in there somewhere about "milking it", but i'll leave it

 

[harvey098]

My guess would be that we will be in league 1 in 10 years, still playing at the Ricoh with an average attendance of 9,000-11,000. I think even if we get new owners, unless they are super rich nothing really would change. I really believe our budget is not as bad as the performances have been over the past decade. I can see us getting back into league 1 but maybe not up to the Championship unless we have a fluke season.

 

[Rory83]

Looking back probably ending up in the top flight and maintaining our position for so long was all one massive fluke.

Maybe this is our level.

 

[Brylowes]

I have absolutely no idea where we will be in ten years time, 'its 50/50 whether we still exist or not.
But I do feel that for this club to move forward instead of back, the owners have to go.

 

[CovBurty]

I'm sure this has been done to death, but I'm curious. Those of you who've seen it all and those who are newer to the club. Where do you see us in 10 years time?

Will we have a club? A stadium of our own? Premier League or Vanarama?

Personally I think we'll be ok, but I doubt I'll see us back in the Prem in my lifetime, which is depressing given I'm in my mid 30's.

I agree with you we will exist in some form, no ground, only ground share. As to which league, no higher than L1, more likely non-league. Unless Sisu leave us, then more chance of L1. I feel our days of top two league's is now just a dream. We need a new type of Jimmy Hill with around 50 million to splash. Not very likely as the best stadium in Coventry is a crappy rubgy. So we also need another load of dosh to build a decent footy stadium. Not a good future. City will only be remembered as that bunch of underdogs who beat Spurs in 87. Thankfully I got to go and it was and is our greatest achievement.

 

[rupert_bear]

At this moment in time I find it difficult to gauge where we might be in 2027 but for now I see little prospect as we are now of being much better or higher than we are I just don't see any desire in being a lot higher from our owner to be honest. Very depressing when you think about it, then I look at the likes of Fleetwood and Burton who ten years ago were minnows in non league let alone the football league so there is hope. Getting Sepalla out of our club should be every fans priority but don't bank on that fucker !

 

[no_loyalty]

We will be owned by the richest man in the world, and winning everything.

That would be just plain boring

 

[chiefdave]

Realistically I don't think we can survive knocking about in L1 / L2 for 10 years. That level means we have to stay at the Ricoh and the longer it goes on the smaller the crowds will get. So either someone comes in and turns things around and we get back to the Championship or we'll drop out of the league and end up playing at the Butts or Nuneaton.

 

[baldy]

Someone simulated Football Manager 1000 years into the future

At least in 27 years time,we fork out a world-record transfer fee (dunno how he'll fare on a cold night in Newport though)

 

[oscillatewildly]

there's a joke in there somewhere about "milking it", but i'll leave it

Think "Accrington Stanley".

 

[Captain Dart]

Holding my horses till situation regarding ground for next season resolved.
If it isn't the Ricoh Arena then I doubt CCFC will be located in the City in 10 yrs time.

Pointless worrying.

 

[Limey]

Much like Cov rugby club unless we start pulling in regular gates of 15k plus.

Worried club and fanbase will dwindle to such an extent that there will be no way back.

 

[Carlh29]

New Owners, new 15k stadium on Gosford Park but still struggling in L2.

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Depends on what happens with Sisu, if they still own us I would expect we will be the league below the conference at best part time, if they go and soon we will be league one at best unless the new owners were mega rich

 

[oldskyblue58]

The promotion to Championship season 2015/16 financials of Burton make interesting reading. Promotion achieved on a turnover of £4.2m and wages of 3.6m. That's not out of reach of CCFC even now. However Burton have land assets, a positive Balance sheet (£5m) and are not burden with debt or large interest charges. Having got to the Championship then the important thing is to stay there and they did but the financials not available yet.

ALBION FOOTBALL CLUB(BURTON-ON-TRENT)LIMITED(THE) - Filing history (free information from Companies House)

Fleetwood have also achieved on low budget but slightly differently. In year to 30/06/2016 they had a turnover of £4.3m and spent all that on wages 4.3m. They own land but have a negative balance sheet (-£6.9m). However they owe that and more to the owner (10.8m) who additionally wrote off over £6m in that financial year. They run at an annual loss of around £2.5m. That said they have spent quite a bit on the base for training and academy a clear long term plan.

FLEETWOOD WANDERERS LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)

Another club to look at would be Forest Green. Achieved success on a shoestring and significant owner contribution. Will be interesting to see if they survive in L2. Not sure they will

Otium/CCFC 2016 accounts Turnover £5.4m wages £4.5m Balance Sheet £14m negative Total fixed assets £600k Interest charges 2.4m Loans £8.2m. Failure

So it is possible to achieve success on fairly modest means. I expect that CCFC will remain a EFL team but will bounce between L2 and L1 under the present owners, indeed under any owner that does not have significant funds. Are significant funds likely? other than history, fans potential and the name then I do not see what makes CCFC attractive to any investor when other clubs have better infra structure. Not sure I see SISU cutting and running if the JR2 goes against them - the actions increasingly look like ways to buy time whilst finances away from CCFC are sorted out - so any investor will have to pay a ransom to acquire. The true investment value has been lost so bumping along in L2 makes not a bit of difference to SISU. In deed any level of success is a positive for SISU and could allow funds extraction (not saying they have or will I don't know)
New owners could galvanise the fans and see promotion to L1 even Championship (Burton even Yeovil proved it can be done but can it be maintained) but with much of the infra structure gone then they will need deep pockets. Then you factor in the ripple effect of the current transfers market and wages, the trawling of the best young players by Premier League Clubs etc and the pockets to great success will need to be even deeper. Thats before factoring in the rebuilding of key relationships. In 10 years time I hope we have new owners but the damage done in the last ten years I think confines us to L2 and L1 in that order - but a lot could change. A Premiership promotion I think is a complete fantasy

 

[the rumpo kid]

If sisu stay , no higher than league one, possibly a lot lower.

 

[Captain Dart]

The promotion to Championship season 2015/16 financials of Burton make interesting reading. Promotion achieved on a turnover of £4.2m and wages of 3.6m. That's not out of reach of CCFC even now. However Burton have land assets, a positive Balance sheet (£5m) and are not burden with debt or large interest charges. Having got to the Championship then the important thing is to stay there and they did but the financials not available yet.

ALBION FOOTBALL CLUB(BURTON-ON-TRENT)LIMITED(THE) - Filing history (free information from Companies House)

Fleetwood have also achieved on low budget but slightly differently. In year to 30/06/2016 they had a turnover of £4.3m and spent all that on wages 4.3m. They own land but have a negative balance sheet (-£6.9m). However they owe that and more to the owner (10.8m) who additionally wrote off over £6m in that financial year. They run at an annual loss of around £2.5m. That said they have spent quite a bit on the base for training and academy a clear long term plan.

FLEETWOOD WANDERERS LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)

Another club to look at would be Forest Green. Achieved success on a shoestring and significant owner contribution. Will be interesting to see if they survive in L2. Not sure they will

Otium/CCFC 2016 accounts Turnover £5.4m wages £4.5m Balance Sheet £14m negative Total fixed assets £600k Interest charges 2.4m Loans £8.2m. Failure

So it is possible to achieve success on fairly modest means. I expect that CCFC will remain a EFL team but will bounce between L2 and L1 under the present owners, indeed under any owner that does not have significant funds. Are significant funds likely? other than history, fans potential and the name then I do not see what makes CCFC attractive to any investor when other clubs have better infra structure. Not sure I see SISU cutting and running if the JR2 goes against them - the actions increasingly look like ways to buy time whilst finances away from CCFC are sorted out - so any investor will have to pay a ransom to acquire. The true investment value has been lost so bumping along in L2 makes not a bit of difference to SISU. In deed any level of success is a positive for SISU and could allow funds extraction (not saying they have or will I don't know)
New owners could galvanise the fans and see promotion to L1 even Championship (Burton even Yeovil proved it can be done but can it be maintained) but with much of the infra structure gone then they will need deep pockets. Then you factor in the ripple effect of the current transfers market and wages, the trawling of the best young players by Premier League Clubs etc and the pockets to great success will need to be even deeper. Thats before factoring in the rebuilding of key relationships. In 10 years time I hope we have new owners but the damage done in the last ten years I think confines us to L2 and L1 in that order - but a lot could change. A Premiership promotion I think is a complete fantasy

Depressing.

 

[Limey]

The promotion to Championship season 2015/16 financials of Burton make interesting reading. Promotion achieved on a turnover of £4.2m and wages of 3.6m. That's not out of reach of CCFC even now. However Burton have land assets, a positive Balance sheet (£5m) and are not burden with debt or large interest charges. Having got to the Championship then the important thing is to stay there and they did but the financials not available yet.

ALBION FOOTBALL CLUB(BURTON-ON-TRENT)LIMITED(THE) - Filing history (free information from Companies House)

Fleetwood have also achieved on low budget but slightly differently. In year to 30/06/2016 they had a turnover of £4.3m and spent all that on wages 4.3m. They own land but have a negative balance sheet (-£6.9m). However they owe that and more to the owner (10.8m) who additionally wrote off over £6m in that financial year. They run at an annual loss of around £2.5m. That said they have spent quite a bit on the base for training and academy a clear long term plan.

FLEETWOOD WANDERERS LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)

Another club to look at would be Forest Green. Achieved success on a shoestring and significant owner contribution. Will be interesting to see if they survive in L2. Not sure they will

Otium/CCFC 2016 accounts Turnover £5.4m wages £4.5m Balance Sheet £14m negative Total fixed assets £600k Interest charges 2.4m Loans £8.2m. Failure

So it is possible to achieve success on fairly modest means. I expect that CCFC will remain a EFL team but will bounce between L2 and L1 under the present owners, indeed under any owner that does not have significant funds. Are significant funds likely? other than history, fans potential and the name then I do not see what makes CCFC attractive to any investor when other clubs have better infra structure. Not sure I see SISU cutting and running if the JR2 goes against them - the actions increasingly look like ways to buy time whilst finances away from CCFC are sorted out - so any investor will have to pay a ransom to acquire. The true investment value has been lost so bumping along in L2 makes not a bit of difference to SISU. In deed any level of success is a positive for SISU and could allow funds extraction (not saying they have or will I don't know)
New owners could galvanise the fans and see promotion to L1 even Championship (Burton even Yeovil proved it can be done but can it be maintained) but with much of the infra structure gone then they will need deep pockets. Then you factor in the ripple effect of the current transfers market and wages, the trawling of the best young players by Premier League Clubs etc and the pockets to great success will need to be even deeper. Thats before factoring in the rebuilding of key relationships. In 10 years time I hope we have new owners but the damage done in the last ten years I think confines us to L2 and L1 in that order - but a lot could change. A Premiership promotion I think is a complete fantasy

Difference between those clubs and us is that we play in a 32k stadium. How would our figures compare with a 15k average gate?
Looking at Pompey, a good comparator in club size/ambitions, you would back them to get out of L1 based on gates alone.
(I'm ignoring the obvious wedge between sisu and supporters in this. A new owner, even with minimal financial backing, would help with attendances you would think?)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

According to FM17 we will be in the Championship with Kolo Toure as manager and SISU will leave in 2019.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Difference between those clubs and us is that we play in a 32k stadium. How would our figures compare with a 15k average gate?
Looking at Pompey, a good comparator in club size/ambitions, you would back them to get out of L1 based on gates alone.
(I'm ignoring the obvious wedge between sisu and supporters in this. A new owner, even with minimal financial backing, would help with attendances you would think?)

I can see the point you are making but the Turnover already compared favourably with Burton & Fleetwood in 2015/16 on average CCFC gates of 12570 that season. An extra 2500 on the attendance to 15000 average would raise say 700k excl VAT. Ticket prices have gone up since then so that may mean on attendances of 15000 an extra 600k overall in income excluding VAT. Things like hospitality F&B etc Kit sales, Car parking, Programme sales we only get a split of after costs deducted. We have under 1 year left on the ground deal you would think the replacement if we are at the Ricoh would be at commercial rates adding to current costs. A new owner might have better relationships with landlords and fans but will still need substantial funding behind them to get to the top of L! let alone get to and stay in the Championship

The Pompey Trust & Supporters realised they were hitting a glass ceiling as far as further progression was concerned..... yes in 2016 they had an 8m turnover on 16300 attendances they paid out 5.3m in wages in L2 to get promotion and it worked..... they had a ground and training facilities to call their own ............. but they are now owned by someone with substantial financial backing and willing to fund it. Pompey could do it but not on attendances alone. Look at Sheffield united that 2015/16 season Turnover above £10m and average crowds 19800 it didn't get them up

 

[Captain Dart]

I can see the point you are making but the Turnover already compared favourably with Burton & Fleetwood in 2015/16 on average CCFC gates of 12570 that season. An extra 2500 on the attendance to 15000 average would raise say 700k excl VAT. Ticket prices have gone up since then so that may mean on attendances of 15000 an extra 600k overall in income excluding VAT. Things like hospitality F&B etc Kit sales, Car parking, Programme sales we only get a split of after costs deducted. We have under 1 year left on the ground deal you would think the replacement if we are at the Ricoh would be at commercial rates adding to current costs. A new owner might have better relationships with landlords and fans but will still need substantial funding behind them to get to the top of L! let alone get to and stay in the Championship

The Pompey Trust & Supporters realised they were hitting a glass ceiling as far as further progression was concerned..... yes in 2016 they had an 8m turnover on 16300 attendances they paid out 5.3m in wages in L2 to get promotion and it worked..... they had a ground and training facilities to call their own ............. but they are now owned by someone with substantial financial backing and willing to fund it. Pompey could do it but not on attendances alone. Look at Sheffield united that 2015/16 season Turnover above £10m and average crowds 19800 it didn't get them up

Essentially isn't what you're saying is that if you haven't got owners prepared to spend (and lose) money on success then you will never get it because there are plenty of competitors out there who will and deny you that prize.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Depressing.

How is such a massive club with apparent 43k fan potential only delivering a derisory turnover of £5.4m?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Hobo]

Will it be the age of Aquarius???

Stupid post....10 year projection lol

 

[wingy]

Will it be the age of Aquarius???

Stupid post....10 year projection lol

Stop being one dimensional!

 

[Limey]

I can see the point you are making but the Turnover already compared favourably with Burton & Fleetwood in 2015/16 on average CCFC gates of 12570 that season. An extra 2500 on the attendance to 15000 average would raise say 700k excl VAT. Ticket prices have gone up since then so that may mean on attendances of 15000 an extra 600k overall in income excluding VAT. Things like hospitality F&B etc Kit sales, Car parking, Programme sales we only get a split of after costs deducted. We have under 1 year left on the ground deal you would think the replacement if we are at the Ricoh would be at commercial rates adding to current costs. A new owner might have better relationships with landlords and fans but will still need substantial funding behind them to get to the top of L! let alone get to and stay in the Championship

The Pompey Trust & Supporters realised they were hitting a glass ceiling as far as further progression was concerned..... yes in 2016 they had an 8m turnover on 16300 attendances they paid out 5.3m in wages in L2 to get promotion and it worked..... they had a ground and training facilities to call their own ............. but they are now owned by someone with substantial financial backing and willing to fund it. Pompey could do it but not on attendances alone. Look at Sheffield united that 2015/16 season Turnover above £10m and average crowds 19800 it didn't get them up

Higher attendances must have other financial draws though such as increased commercial/sponsorship attraction.
We are just as likely to succeed in getting back to the championship in a 8k seater stadium then?
Just think we somehow need to break this cycle of dwindling gates to get back. With sisu or not.

 

[Gazolba]

In 10 years I see us back in League 1, struggling to get promoted.
It would not surprise me if we get promoted and/or relegated more than once in that time.
Personally, the way things are going, I'll just be glad if we still exist.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Higher attendances must have other financial draws though such as increased commercial/sponsorship attraction.
We are just as likely to succeed in getting back to the championship in a 8k seater stadium then?
Just think we somehow need to break this cycle of dwindling gates to get back. With sisu or not.

Yes higher attendances will knock on to other incomes I agree but look at the 2016 figures for CCFC. An increase to 15000 average would have been 2500 extra people. It wouldn't have changed the shirt sponsorship income that was/is in place, it might have increased advertising incomes (few more boards around the ground etc) no naming rights on the ground itself though. It would not have changed the prize monies or central distributions (assuming same team performance) it would not have changed the academy grant. Things like F&B, car park, club shop etc are shared after costs deducted and it might have increased but it wouldn't have been large numbers. Extra turnover also brings extra costs to be met as well.

Based on the 2016 accounts if we presently had gates averaging 15000 then as a pure guess I would expect turnover to be in region of 7m net of VAT. The increases being mainly due to more bums on seats and 20% price rises as described in my previous post . Not insignificant certainly in L2, about average in L1, and well under requirement for the Championship.

For example Bristol City Turnover first year back in Championship was £10.3m and they made a £13m loss, to get promoted from L1 they had a turnover of 7.1m and made losses of £8m. Attendance Championship 2015/16 15292 and League 1 2014/15 12056. The match and season ticket income increased by £187k according to the accounts. It was the league & FA & premiership distributions that made the difference in Turnover but losses grew faster

Clearly bigger crowds make a difference but without other major support from owners & investors there would seem to be a glass ceiling to success. Is success a factor of ground size? Forest Green, Burton etc would suggest not, but of course the bigger the crowds the better. Plus the bigger the ground the more it costs

Crowds are part of the solution but it is other factors as well. Maximising income is important, and the best way to do that is by team success on the pitch, team success will cost to get in the right people/players, which in turn puts pressure on finance, which in turn puts pressure on owners to back it, which in turn puts pressure on maximising income. So it goes round, its a catch 22 situation.

The current way that football is run makes little financial sense. It is not a level playing field for all clubs. Look at a Premier League club and they could afford to let fans in for free and still be ok because 90%+ of their income is from the TV & media deals (excluding player transfers). Crowd income becomes more important in the lower leagues but then so does the owners annual investment where even modest sums invested can make a difference. The egos or bad management of owners, the poor and toothless regulation of the FIFA, FA, EFL, the fans expectation of bottomless pit financing, the ridiculous wages and transfer values etc all adds up to a sector that one day will surely crash and burn?

 

[Nick]

That's where there needs to be strict rules to put everybody on a level playing field. As with Orient somebody could be pumping the investment in one minute and paying players 5 figures a week in the lower leagues but when the gamble doesn't pay off and the money tap stops it all goes to shit.

I'm not sure how it could be implemented but with teams like PSG milking it, it's clear FFP isn't the way.