Grendel
Well-Known Member
Is that you making your one appearance for Stenhousemuir?So the next time CCFC are taken out of Coventry and turned into a franchise team you'll be all for it? Ya fucking knob Jockey!!!
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Come on Grenduffy, Coventry Sporting Club, Ayr Utd, Montrose, and Raith.... Only 6 games for Raith(Retired with Injury)
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Hey Nick! You said that without moving your lips.
Nick
Administrator
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I thought you were talking averages over a season? If I was being cynical I'd say it's like the facts (when looked at long-term) don't back up your argument so now you're nit picking individual games. If I was being cynical that is.
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
The weekend feelgood factor is starting to fade......'group hug everybody'
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
How much are they losing now?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
What was your point mate before the deflector blamed 'our' fans 8 pages ago?
Astute
Well-Known Member
I still stand by what I have said on here. Poor performances do not grow attendances. Neither do constant unglamorous opponents.
There was a lady who had a couple of tickets off me for last Sunday. The lad with her kind of showed interest previously. But now he has been....and what a game to go to....wants to go again. These young supporters are our future. I think it is the first time my little boy has seen us win. That is including being 2 goals up in a game at 90 minutes and still not winning. He has seen a fair few draws. But it isn't the same.
Winning teams have supporters not wanting to miss games. But we have been perennial losers. We have STH's that have even stopped going because of the crap served up. It is depressing.
Blame CCC. Blame Wasps. Blame SISU. Blame whoever you want. But don't blame the supporters. CCFC are supposed to be in the entertainment business. There have been times when I would have had more fun watching paint dry. It isn't my fault or thousands of others if they decide to spend a large chunk of money each year on something more enjoyable with their families than watching crap football and hoping we can at least compete.
There was a lady who had a couple of tickets off me for last Sunday. The lad with her kind of showed interest previously. But now he has been....and what a game to go to....wants to go again. These young supporters are our future. I think it is the first time my little boy has seen us win. That is including being 2 goals up in a game at 90 minutes and still not winning. He has seen a fair few draws. But it isn't the same.
Winning teams have supporters not wanting to miss games. But we have been perennial losers. We have STH's that have even stopped going because of the crap served up. It is depressing.
Blame CCC. Blame Wasps. Blame SISU. Blame whoever you want. But don't blame the supporters. CCFC are supposed to be in the entertainment business. There have been times when I would have had more fun watching paint dry. It isn't my fault or thousands of others if they decide to spend a large chunk of money each year on something more enjoyable with their families than watching crap football and hoping we can at least compete.
SkyblueSpecial
Well-Known Member
I'm sure we all agree that bigger attendances result in greater revenue for the club, and therefore in theory produce a better team.
So a league table should be broadly in line with each teams attendances. Bigger the crowds, better the team.
However in the 16 years since being relegated from the premiership, we have been in the top half of the attendance table every season (baring Northampton of course) yet in that time the club has only managed a top half finish a pitiful 4 times.
Certainly since premiership relegated Ccfc has enjoyed support far in excess of what it deserves.
The fans have backed the club and have been let down.
So a league table should be broadly in line with each teams attendances. Bigger the crowds, better the team.
However in the 16 years since being relegated from the premiership, we have been in the top half of the attendance table every season (baring Northampton of course) yet in that time the club has only managed a top half finish a pitiful 4 times.
Certainly since premiership relegated Ccfc has enjoyed support far in excess of what it deserves.
The fans have backed the club and have been let down.
bawtryneal
Well-Known Member
Build a team first before you build a stadium.
Fergusons_Beard
Well-Known Member
When looking at fan attendance why not use Wigan,Bolton, Blackburn,Fulham and Blackpool as examples?
All shit attendances now but when they were (relatively) successful they had packed stadia.
There's a general malaise about football at the moment which is being created by the Premiership.
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All shit attendances now but when they were (relatively) successful they had packed stadia.
There's a general malaise about football at the moment which is being created by the Premiership.
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Fergusons_Beard
Well-Known Member
Can't argue with facts G!
I don't think it's pointing fingers at fans that just don't attend anymore, more looking at our history of attendances and comparing that to clubs that have a history of high attendances.
Sheffield, Leeds, Norwich , Liverpool , Manchester. Seem to not be affected by fan apathy-they'll turn up in whatever division -Sheff teams,Leeds, Man City, Norwich all been to Div 1.
No idea why-more of a tie to club?How can you measure fan loyalty?
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stupot07
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter what they are losing, for every Bournemouth there are more Clubs with huge debt that are nowhere near knocking on the door to the PL (e.g Forest), or worse been in admin or gone bust. Its one of the reasons we are where we are now.
And whilst Bournemouth may not be losing money now, relegation will have a significant impact on finances despite parachute payments. So while it may be "make hay whilst the sun shines", there will come a time in the not so distant future when the grey clouds will loom over them again.
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NorthernWisdom
Well-Known Member
I don't know the answer to the question anyway, but despite the so-called riches in the Premiership, the experience of clubs such as Bolton, Blackburn... us is that getting the top flight TV cash might give you the spending power to service the humungous debt you run up spending a fortune on wages etc, but it's all dependent on staying up there. Fall down the trapdoor if you're a small to middling club and doom awaits, if you don't get back quickly.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I would imagine if clubs have any sense, they will have clauses in players contracts that means post relegation their wage bill returns to one that is sustainable in the Championship, certainly after the parachute money has dried up.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Not since I blocked you and your wife on snapchat
Come on Nick, tell the truth.... It's YOUR wife!
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Yep. Its a very short termist view. Interestingly thr Bournemouth owners loaned not gifted the money. I wonder how much of those loans or interest hes had back since being in the top flight.
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Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
I personally can't wait for the likes of Chelsea going "Pop" when Abramovic pulls out and "Calls in the £1b+ in loans to the Football Club/Chelsea Village... Should be interesting to see what precedent that situation sets.
covmark
Well-Known Member
This is exactly what I tell my Chelsea supporting mates. They're forever taking the piss out of me for being a city fan. I always say to them that I can't wait until Abramovic gets bored. See where Chelsea are when that happens.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
It's incredible to think they lost £54 million in two seasons in the championship. In sure it was £10 million plus in league one as well.
It's horrendous and incredible they are being cited as a way forward.
Relegation would be disastrous. It will be interesting to see the accounts this year and how much money has been chucked on wages to keep them up. I think it will be an eye opener for many.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Football fans, especially those watching the PL circus, have become completely desensitised to money. It's literally like watching football Monopoly.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
You know some people should learn to read.
My post about Bournemouth was to illustrate that "success" was not dependent on large crowd numbers, not about advocating massive debt or losses at all. The "success" is dependent on the decisions the owners and directors make above all else. There is no set way to run a football club. Fans have very little if any say or influence be it as small or large numbers of them. Are the owners prepared to risk their money or even are they brave enough to tackle root cause problems or do they carry on regardless with no clear plan of how
Bournemouth owners chose to get to the Premiership by large interest free loans from the owners. Much of which is classified as long term not current debt. Ok so long as the money not required to be repaid - that would be a big problem
Sheffield United have arranged their finances around the owners putting in share capital rather than loans and written off £34m of historic debt. Share monies cant be demanded to be repaid easily. Issue of new shares contributes to SCMP also
CCFC have spent 10's of millions of interest bearing loan money, classified it as current debt, simply to help keep afloat, failing on the pitch and no clear plan ahead
The key decision maker for all three clubs are the owners. Each owner chose the financial route they have taken - wasn't dependent on the fans or fans numbers
There are many other variations at lots of other clubs
My post about Bournemouth was to illustrate that "success" was not dependent on large crowd numbers, not about advocating massive debt or losses at all. The "success" is dependent on the decisions the owners and directors make above all else. There is no set way to run a football club. Fans have very little if any say or influence be it as small or large numbers of them. Are the owners prepared to risk their money or even are they brave enough to tackle root cause problems or do they carry on regardless with no clear plan of how
Bournemouth owners chose to get to the Premiership by large interest free loans from the owners. Much of which is classified as long term not current debt. Ok so long as the money not required to be repaid - that would be a big problem
Sheffield United have arranged their finances around the owners putting in share capital rather than loans and written off £34m of historic debt. Share monies cant be demanded to be repaid easily. Issue of new shares contributes to SCMP also
CCFC have spent 10's of millions of interest bearing loan money, classified it as current debt, simply to help keep afloat, failing on the pitch and no clear plan ahead
The key decision maker for all three clubs are the owners. Each owner chose the financial route they have taken - wasn't dependent on the fans or fans numbers
There are many other variations at lots of other clubs
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Astute
Well-Known Member
And there is the problem. Their owners have done what they thought was best for their club. Ours have done what they thought was best for them. They have improved. We continue to slip lower.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Personally I think that "investment" by owners (including minority shareholders) should be only be by the issue of new shares for cash. Even further than that shares in football clubs can only be issued for cash (ie no capitalising historic losses in to worthless preference shares etc) That might make a few think before they act.
Had ARVO been forced to do it that way then the CCFC would have been showing profits 2016 and the balance sheet not in deficit - a much more attractive proposition
Had ARVO been forced to do it that way then the CCFC would have been showing profits 2016 and the balance sheet not in deficit - a much more attractive proposition
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Personally I love how some of the same posters who hold Bournemouth's capacity up as a reason why we can move to a 12K BPA and still be successful then ask who would want Bournemouth's financial model. Talk about having your cake and eat it.
SkyblueSpecial
Well-Known Member
You're right that potential investors would analyse attendances. However they would look behind those figures rather than just take them for what they are. I.e. Try to understand the clubs potential.
Let's take the 1977-78 season that you quoted. In that season we averaged 23k. You're making the argument that a 25k stadium would've been big enough for us that season.
That figure only works if you assume people will go to each game in even numbers.
In actual fact, we sold over 25k in 6 games that season. Nearly 1/3 of all home games.
If we had only been playing in a 25k stadium in 1978, that average would've fell to 22k, and the club would've lost over 24k ticket sales over the course of a season.
The best way to plan a stadium capacity is to look at crowds for the big but regular games.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Not really - if its 12,000 or 20,000 it makes no difference in terms of the spend they made - it would have still been a whacking great loss.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It is why they are not really a big club.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Very true, we did buy those players, but!... Within 9 months Dann and Fox were sold, Westwood was treated abominably so walked away, and Gunarsson could see the owners had no ambition whatsoever, and did the same as Westwood..... So YES it was SISU's fault.
Astute
Well-Known Member
Which is what Richardson did to us to start our downfall which ended up with SISU taking us over. But you say that he is not guilty of anything.
Fergusons_Beard
Well-Known Member
Jeezus-Blinkered again! Fucking fake news spinny bullshit!
Actually we bought Fox AND Dann in Jan 2008
They played the remainder of that season 2007-8 and then played the whole of the next season 2008-9 playing 57 games each. Which is ACTUALLY 16 months NOT 9!
In 2007-8 Dowie won Manager of the month but SISU (Ray Ransom) took over and sacked him-replacing him with Coleman. We avoided relagation on the last day-despite losing 4-1 at home to Charlton (SISUs fault?).
Next season 2008-9 we finish 17th (SISU's fault?) and only finish 8 points above relegation. Westwood and Fox get in the PFA Championship team of the season.
Westwood and Gunnarson played out there 3 year contracts and both left in 2011.
Is that the owners fault that they left?
Let's look at that facts...
2009-10 season finished 19th
2010-11 season finished 18th
All with Chris Coleman in charge & the season after that we got relegated...
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