Petrol and Diesel Cars banned by 2040 (1 Viewer)

[Nick]

New diesel and petrol vehicles to be banned from 2040 in UK - BBC News

Doesn't give much info, but I guess it will be Electric Cars only. They had better start bringing the prices right down ready and sort public transport out.

 

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[IrishSkyBlue]

Im guessing tesla are beaming at this news it give them plenty time start chruning out the electric cars now, as you said tho main thing is price

 

[Sub]

People i.e our goverment havnt thought about this its another knee jerk reaction to people who think it can be acheived without massive investment in the national grid in this country. All the precious metals needed for lithium batteries and alll the exotic bits in electical batteries like neodymium are found in china and colbolt is found in places like china, congo and russia. It is something that is totally beyond doing with the technology we have at present. If all the vehicles in the Uk were electric we would need something like another 4 or 5 nuclear powerstations to charge them all !!! Also i can see high story blocks of flats with hundreds of cables running out their windows charging peoples cars. It is something that is not possible at the moment. Best thing they can do is ban diesels and concentrate on making hydrogen powered cars but they wont do that because everyone will be able to fuel their car for free !!

 

[scubasteve]

There was a article I read a few months back about most electric cars today including the tesla, and you would have to drive a new vw golf petrol blue motion for 70k miles to create the same levels of pollution just to build the batteries required in electric cars. Its was to do with the mining of the metals needed etc, so in theory for the first 70k miles you are still more pollutant in a electric car, and that didn't include energy used when charging cars once you own them

 

[Marty]

There was a article I read a few months back about most electric cars today including the tesla, and you would have to drive a new vw golf petrol blue motion for 70k miles to create the same levels of pollution just to build the batteries required in electric cars. Its was to do with the mining of the metals needed etc, so in theory for the first 70k miles you are still more pollutant in a electric car, and that didn't include energy used when charging cars once you own them

That's crazy, but I suppose if it's cleaner energy, then better?

 

[scubasteve]

That's crazy, but I suppose if it's cleaner energy, then better?

no idea. It was a few months back when I read it so I cant remember all the details, just that you had to drive 70k miles in a new car today to have the same carbon footprint as it takes just to build the batteries in the electric cars today.

 

[Captain Dart]

no idea. It was a few months back when I read it so I cant remember all the details, just that you had to drive 70k miles in a new car today to have the same carbon footprint as it takes just to build the batteries in the electric cars today.

Maybe, but the pollutants are not in the City. Hey if this happens maybe sperm counts will return to 1970's levels!

 

[Gazolba]

They'll have to start making enough electric cars first wont they? Unless the supply of electric cars is enough to meet the demand, this won't happen.
In any case, this applies to 'new' vehicles only. Older petrol-powered vehicles will still be on the road for 20-30 years after that.
Petrol-powered vehicles will only disappear when petrol stations disappear.

 

[Grendel]

They'll have to start making enough electric cars first wont they? Unless the supply of electric cars is enough to meet the demand, this won't happen.
In any case, this applies to 'new' vehicles only. Older petrol-powered vehicles will still be on the road for 20-30 years after that.
Petrol-powered vehicles will only disappear when petrol stations disappear.

Most manufacturers will be building electric vehicles only by then anyway.
At that point countries will make tax so punitive on fuel driven vehicles and / or incentivise change that by default most consumers will switch.

 

[Sub]

i am currently working on an electric vehicle (HGV) and the amount of batteries that are required and the weight plus charging time make them completely pointless as they will never be cost efficient for companies and until people HAVE to buy them by law the best thing to do is steer clear of any electric vehicle imho. The batteries have to be replaced after 3 years as they start degrading and at 3-5 grand a time its just a ludicrous amount of money to have to pay to keep the same car and replace them!!

 

[Grendel]

i am currently working on an electric vehicle (HGV) and the amount of batteries that are required and the weight plus charging time make them completely pointless as they will never be cost efficient for companies and until people HAVE to buy them by law the best thing to do is steer clear of any electric vehicle imho. The batteries have to be replaced after 3 years as they start degrading and at 3-5 grand a time its just a ludicrous amount of money to have to pay to keep the same car and replace them!!

Regarding cars the battery will be covered by a warranty period and also will pay for itself by fuel savings, road tax savings and significantly reduced service costs and replacement parts volume

 

[scubasteve]

Regarding cars the battery will be covered by a warranty period and also will pay for itself by fuel savings, road tax savings and significantly reduced service costs and replacement parts volume

The batteries still degrade quickly so someone is left with a massive bill, are service and replacement parts significantly cheaper? Without sounding cynical I would bet that the free road tax you get now won't exsist if everyone has a electric car, that's a huge hole in tax income if it was abolished.

 

[Grendel]

The batteries still degrade quickly so someone is left with a massive bill, are service and replacement parts significantly cheaper? Without sounding cynical I would bet that the free road tax you get now won't exsist if everyone has a electric car, that's a huge hole in tax income if it was abolished.

Servicing will be around 50% cheaper. The forecast on battery life is it will significantly improve in the next decade.

 

[Sub]

if you say so :happy:

 

[skybluetony176]

I was talking to someone from the battery industry and they recon that there's only enough raw material in the world to keep building lithium batteries at current (no pun intended) levels for another two decades. Lithium batteries are very difficult and expensive to recycle apparently also with currently only a handful of companies worldwide able to fully recycle them so most spent batteries are ending up in landfill.
You then get onto the issue of power generation to charge all these batteries in cars. Where's all the coming from? And that's before you even start talking about the carbon footprint of lithium batteries.
Battery powered cars is really already a dead technology with a production run limited by battery availability.

Hydrogen is the future. Once someone works out how to safely package it and mass produce it at a competitive cost.

 

[Grendel]

if you say so :happy:

Well I can assure you most manufacturers will not be building conventional fuel injection vehicles well before 2040

 

[skybluetony176]

Maybe, but the pollutants are not in the City. Hey if this happens maybe sperm counts will return to 1970's levels!

Mine already has. I wasn't even squirting rice water in the 70's and I had a vasectomy two years ago

 

[Grendel]

Just to clarify PHEV and BEV vehicles will be manufactured still by the mid 2020's

 

[Sub]

Well I can assure you most manufacturers will not be building conventional fuel injection vehicles well before 2040

Diesels are finished VAG saw to that

 

[scubasteve]

The life of a battery is 8-10 years or 80-100k miles. The average price of a new battery is £8-10k on a cheaper electric car, tesla up to 20k once you pay for fitting and recycling of the old battery. So in less than 8 years the car is worthless, as whoever has it has a bill of anywhere of £8-20k. Can see this one working.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I have a few points to provoke thought on this...

1. If the figures quoted about length of battery life are correct...there will be some good turnover & hence great riches to be involved early on

2. The prices will come down relatively but maybe kept up as high as possible since that over time eliminates the ability of the masses to buy them - thus reducing the number of cars on the road relative to what they will otherwise go up to...so car travel becomes another class & business thing

3. Due to their quietness there will be many pedestrians & cyclists being injured due to being unaware of approaching vehicles - but that's alright they will only be the less well-off that can't afford the bloody cars!
4. What will we do with all the oil?

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[dancers lance]

And everyone laughed at me when I bought a milk float in the early 90's, How they giggled when I told them i was buying a vehicle for the future, well they're not laughing now are they!

I've had the pleasure of traveling at 15mph over a 10 mile range for the past 20+ years and these fools are waiting till 2040 to enjoy the same? Suckers!

 

[Captain Dart]

4. What will we do with all the oil?

Fly.

 

[RegTheDonk]

Maybe they think the Middle East will have imploded by then so we can't get any oil.

 

[Kingokings204]

Many many things have to be sorted out. Electric isn't the future imo. How long will the charge last and where do you charge it? How much is it?

 

[skybluetony176]

The life of a battery is 8-10 years or 80-100k miles. The average price of a new battery is £8-10k on a cheaper electric car, tesla up to 20k once you pay for fitting and recycling of the old battery. So in less than 8 years the car is worthless, as whoever has it has a bill of anywhere of £8-20k. Can see this one working.

Battery life depends on a few things. Firstly the depth of discharge you take it to. All batteries have a limited number of cycles and the number of available cycles correlates to the depth of discharge. Basically the more energy you take out of a battery in a single discharge the fewer cycles it will give you. The other big thing in increasing/reducing a batteries life expectancy is the charging. If you don't recharge a battery correctly you can greatly reduce it's life.

The 8-10year or 80-100k will be under certain conditions. Human nature is that alot of people will take every last amp out the battery before putting it on recharge taking it to a deep depth of discharge and then take it of charge before the recharge cycle has finished because they've run out of milk and want to go to Tesco's.

 

[dancers lance]

Battery life depends on a few things. Firstly the depth of discharge you take it to. All batteries have a limited number of cycles and the number of available cycles correlates to the depth of discharge. Basically the more energy you take out of a battery in a single discharge the fewer cycles it will give you. The other big thing in increasing/reducing a batteries life expectancy is the charging. If you don't recharge a battery correctly you can greatly reduce it's life.

The 8-10year or 80-100k will be under certain conditions. Human nature is that alot of people will take every last amp out the battery before putting it on recharge taking it to a deep depth of discharge and then take it of charge before the recharge cycle has finished because they've run out of milk and want to go to Tesco's.

I find the occasional top-up of distilled water is all my Midland Electric B25 has ever needed and as such I am sure the electric car power plants of the future will benefit from exactly the same? My only worry is, what will this do to the price of distilled water in the future?..... it will be worth more than gold by weight I can tell you, stock up!

 

[skybluetony176]

I find the occasional top-up of distilled water is all my Midland Electric B25 has ever needed and as such I am sure the electric car power plants of the future will benefit from exactly the same? My only worry is, what will this do to the price of distilled water in the future?..... it will be worth more than gold by weight I can tell you, stock up!

You've got good old fashioned British engineered deep cycle wet lead acid batteries that you can maintain yourself. The batteries that are in modern electric cars are all dry cell and "maintenance" free batteries. I think you're safe on the cost of distilled water


Your batteries are also greener as they're 100% recyclable unlike lithium derived batteries.

 

[Grendel]

The life of a battery is 8-10 years or 80-100k miles. The average price of a new battery is £8-10k on a cheaper electric car, tesla up to 20k once you pay for fitting and recycling of the old battery. So in less than 8 years the car is worthless, as whoever has it has a bill of anywhere of £8-20k. Can see this one working.

Nissan is around £5k and the prices will reduce. Cash back is offered as well. The tesla figure you have is miles off the mark

Residual value of tesla vehicles are very strong versus combustion competition.

 

[Gazolba]

Servicing will be around 50% cheaper. The forecast on battery life is it will significantly improve in the next decade.

The lifetime ownership cost of an electric vehicle will be greater than that for a petrol-powered vehicle.
They will have to be much lighter and thus much less durable.
The auto industry will ensure that maintenance costs equal or exceed that of petrol-powered vehicles. Whatever few parts need replacement will be exceedingly expensive.
How will these vehicles batteries hold up when someone is driving in the rain with their wipers, headlamps and air-conditioning on and listening to their car stereo?

 

[Grendel]

The lifetime ownership cost of an electric vehicle will be greater than that for a petrol-powered vehicle.
They will have to be much lighter and thus much less durable.
The auto industry will ensure that maintenance costs equal or exceed that of petrol-powered vehicles. Whatever few parts need replacement will be exceedingly expensive.
How will these vehicles batteries hold up when someone is driving in the rain with their wipers, headlamps and air-conditioning on and listening to their car stereo?

I would guess you said the same when some bloke turned up with a briefcase and showed you a huge brick and said "this is a mobile phone and it's the future"

 

[dancers lance]

You've got good old fashioned British engineered deep cycle wet lead acid batteries that you can maintain yourself. The batteries that are in modern electric cars are all dry cell and "maintenance" free batteries. I think you're safe on the cost of distilled water


Your batteries are also greener as they're 100% recyclable unlike lithium derived batteries.

You've got good old fashioned British engineered deep cycle wet lead acid batteries that you can maintain yourself. The batteries that are in modern electric cars are all dry cell and "maintenance" free batteries. I think you're safe on the cost of distilled water


Your batteries are also greener as they're 100% recyclable unlike lithium derived batteries.

I'm glad you mentioned recycling, I tend to recycle my old batteries by placing them atop a pile of old tyres and setting fire to it, are the new batteries fireproof or could they be recycled using this method?

Also, if I find myself short of old tyres I recycle them by throwing them over my fence into the neighbours fish pond.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm glad you mentioned recycling, I tend to recycle my old batteries by placing them atop a pile of old tyres and setting fire to it, are the new batteries fireproof or could they be recycled using this method?

Also, if I find myself short of old tyres I recycle them by throwing them over my fence into the neighbours fish pond.

I'm starting to think that you're a wind up merchant

Scrap lead batteries are worth about £450 a ton at the moment.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Many many things have to be sorted out. Electric isn't the future imo. How long will the charge last and where do you charge it? How much is it?

And how do we produce the electricity to charge the batteries?
Burn at leadt the same amount of oil in more concentrated areas?


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[Grendel]

I am actually fairly sceptical. It's not battery cost, production etc. That's the issue and the national grid will have no issue but there are numerous issues.

Arguing against is futile though. All research is going into this in the future and all manufacturers are trying to fast forward this as much as possible.