The Attendance Solution? (1 Viewer)

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
I think we can all agree that English Football, in terms of ticketing costs, is overpriced, do you think that CCFC could benefit from adopting a German style of ticketing? A Uli Hoeness' statement is below:

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A couple of questions:

- Could CCFC benefit from it and boost attendances?
- Would it work financially for the Club in terms of helping the Club move forward?
- If City was to adopt this approach would it help set a precedent in English Football?


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rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
But there's another reason for poor gates, poor performances and we have had more of our fair share of those this season. Also in our case the Northampton factor is still having an affect imo.
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
But there's another reason for poor gates, poor performances and we have had more of our fair share of those this season. Also in our case the Northampton factor is still having an affect imo.


It is. For some fans that was the straw that broke the camel's back. For most of us we saw that move to Northampton as nothing but a betrayal.
 

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
But there's another reason for poor gates, poor performances and we have had more of our fair share of those this season. Also in our case the Northampton factor is still having an affect imo.

The Football being played and Northampton will still have an affect, the difference between some of the Clubs that have adopted the approach above, like Bayern, Dortmund and Real Madrid, is that these teams don't have a lack of fans, for instance if they drop their tickets prices it helps those who have always wanted to purchase Season Tickets, that may of not been able to in the past.

Would it help City? We have 10,000 hardcore supporters in my view, would this help enticing additional fans??


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rupert_bear

Well-Known Member
Throughout history fans react to performance, I remember Manchester United getting gates of 25000 in the early Fergie years, Chelsea getting 8k, we have had years of dross. The silver lining is the 28000 that turned up on our Ricoh return, shows potential , nothing more but still potential.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Said a while ago that I couldn't help but notice how the average age of the crowd dropped significantly for the JPT games so why don't the club do a flat rate of £5 for under 18's?

Keep the JSB deals etc but I would think that the average teenager can afford £5 out of their pocket money plus it's an investment for the club. Get the youngsters in the habit now and you stand more chance of them becoming occasional/regular and season ticket holders when they're older and working for a living.

If you're not going to encourage the local youth to come and watch CCFC is it a surprise that they end up supporting a London, Liverpool or Manchester based team? After all, if you're going to "support" a team that you don't go to watch why would that team be CCFC over a team that actually win something and play entertaining football.
 
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lifelongcityfan

Well-Known Member
if it continues to be an extremely poor product on the pitch and we are playing 2nd division football...the majority will not bother going even if it was free.
If SISU went, theh the crowds would come back as long as the product was ok
 

SBS

Active Member
I have a lot of sympathy for our younger fans! If you're under 20 then you've seen no success, it can be a pain to get to the Ricoh and I think the lack of a pay monthly option for a season ticket didn't help earlier this season.

I think there is a lot of room for improvement in the ticket department in terms of creative selling - I think it was Bradford who had a scheme where their JSB equivalents got £2 back for every game they went to. We need ideas like this! We are seriously in danger of losing our next generation of supporters to Wasps or Sky TV.
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
Said a while ago that I couldn't help but notice how the average age of the crowd dropped significantly for the JPT games so why don't the club do a flat rate of £5 for under 18's?

Keep the JSB deals etc but I would think that the average teenager can afford £5 out of their pocket money plus it's an investment for the club. Get the youngsters in the habit now and you stand more chance of them becoming occasional/regular and season ticket holders when they're older and working for a living.

If you're not going to encourage the local youth to come and watch CCFC is it a surprise that they end up supporting a London, Liverpool or Manchester based team? After all, if you're going to "support" a team that you don't go to watch why would that team be CCFC over a team that actually win something and play entertaining football.

I agree flat rate for under 18's and cut free tickets there are far to many people not paying at all. I would also look getting the full price nearer to the senior price.

Although I have paid for my season ticket I wouldn't be bothered if they started selling tickets for a pound to get the ground a bit more full (I know there are football league rules about pricing but there are football league rules about moving clubs and they didn't seem to matter!)
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it would be good if one club in this country could be brave enough to slash ST prices as Rob suggests. However, because of Sky and television I can't see that ever happening. And Tony is spot on too. A flat rate of a fiver every game would encourage more to attend with their kids. Better to fill a few thousand seats at a fiver than have a few thousand seats empty.

When the Bradford game was postponed due to them being in the cup me and my lad went to see Cheltenham. Still cost nearly thirty quid for the both of us! So, it's a problem throughout all the leagues. People are being priced out.
 

rondog1973

Well-Known Member
In addition to the OP, I believe all clubs in Germany must be 51% fan owned, with it being mandatory the remaining 49% be owned by German registered businesses/companies.
 

Paxman II

Well-Known Member
No matter who owns us it's the performances on the pitch that dictate the attendance. If SISU pumped in stacks of money and we became a good side people would not be staying away because they hated their owners. Conversely if TM turned this bunch of no hopes into a successful side attendances would rise dramatically. It's not all about ticket price or promotions which can help marginally but success on the pitch.
 

Warwickhunt

Well-Known Member
It still comes down to the football on the pitch! When we show we can compete and pass the ball and do the simple things then the supporters will come back, I cannot remember the last time we lost a game and I said to myself we were unlucky to not get a point or win the game. We are a very very poor side and will be fortunate not to get relegated no matter how hard TM tries. Waggots intransigence of sticking with SP has done for us and its deeply ingrained in the DNA of the club
 

usskyblue

Well-Known Member
It is. For some fans that was the straw that broke the camel's back. For most of us we saw that move to Northampton as nothing but a betrayal.

Yeah...

I bet they cried all the way in to the Ricoh for the Gillingham game...or did they find another straw?
 
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usskyblue

Well-Known Member
Success = More fans.

Anything else (Northampton, SISU, women abusing players...etc..) is, in general, an excuse.

Whether you like it or not, this has been proved in our case.
 

MichaelCCFC

New Member
Yeah, it would be good if one club in this country could be brave enough to slash ST prices as Rob suggests. However, because of Sky and television I can't see that ever happening. And Tony is spot on too. A flat rate of a fiver every game would encourage more to attend with their kids. Better to fill a few thousand seats at a fiver than have a few thousand seats empty.

When the Bradford game was postponed due to them being in the cup me and my lad went to see Cheltenham. Still cost nearly thirty quid for the both of us! So, it's a problem throughout all the leagues. People are being priced out.


Not the whole solution but a step in the right direction? http://www.fsf.org.uk/latest-news/view/premier-league-london-tv-deal-march
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Bradford have had cheap season tickets for 3 years now. They charge as we do on match days. Junior season tickets are less than £5 a game.

Would we get a big hike If we did it though?
 
Football is all about money these days. The majority of owners don't care about the opinions of the fans, nor the success of the team. I honestly don't know why most owners get into the sport cus most teams make big losses
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I don't think alone price structure can bring back the crowds, but once were attracting support it'll increase the rate and retention.

Attendance is a multifaceted issue. Obviously league position is the biggest factor, but fan engagement, matchday experience and community involvement all matter within those margins.

Personally I'd like to see a smarter pricing structure that reflects the holistic nature of football supporting. A season ticket holder should be more like a member of a club. The club should build packages around the demographics their market analysis throws up. Supporting a club is being part of a community not a series of one off purchases.

I favour a subscription style service with tiers for different levels of engagement from long distance fan to fanatical Superfan. We shouldn't be just selling tickets but membership to a group. The long distance package could have ties with foreign supporters groups and include Sky Blue Player, the Superfan package could include entry to an exclusive bar, a recognisable badge or scarf and away day travel offers.

This helps create "stickiness" meaning fans stay financially connected to the club as well as socially, hopefully reducing fan "churn". Also from a marketing perspective you have a constant channel to get people going to matches and other events.

Just my 2c.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
A hundred quid season ticket wouldn't hurt.
If you've 20 odd thousands empty seats why not try it?

Say we sell 20k £100 ST - that's £1.6m ticket revenue less VAT. We made £2.7m ticket revenue in 12/13, with 11k average. So double attendance and reduce ticket revenue by 40%.


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Gazolba

Well-Known Member
Have a raffle at each home game for non-season ticket holders where the winner gets a free season ticket for next season. It would not cost the club anything since the person would just be filling a seat that would otherwise be empty. And the winners might bring in other people or spend money at the stadium.
 

steveecov

New Member
Been saying for years about the success in Spain and now especially Germany, and yet they haven't had SKY money. English teams should have had a bigger win ratio in European competitions.

With regard to attendances here, Sky money doesn't filter down to us, and much like the new stadium certainly isn't going to happen for a few years minimum.

Therefore all thought of the 100s of millions should be put on the back burner. Still an ultimate target, but not affecting the here-and now; which is what dictates which players we can attract and afford.

The biggest revenue increase; and it has to be supported by owners, has to come from the fans.

Obviously, football nowadays is anything but a cheap pastime. Much as supermarkets try to cater for maximum customers; so should we.

All supermarkets from Lidl to Waitrose have premium and value items within a range.

Be it a new stadium in the future(bit like Sky, not relevant now) or more realistically, at the Ricoh; thought should be put in to having "value" blocks/areas.
I used to stand on the Kop, because I couldn't afford the posh seats. Later I would still prefer to be in the cheaper areas due to a better experience/atmosphere.

Certainly cater for the prawn sandwich clientele but create a value area. Sort out the shop and try to run it to make money.

All these things should be explored, if only to realise for themselves how tarnishes the brand is.
 

M&B Stand

Well-Known Member
Say we sell 20k £100 ST - that's £1.6m ticket revenue less VAT. We made £2.7m ticket revenue in 12/13, with 11k average. So double attendance and reduce ticket revenue by 40%.


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Not all tickets 100 quid you mug, just the corners or behind goal etc, and also you've not factored pay as you go tickets game by game.

Would you rather it be more expensive?
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Not all tickets 100 quid you mug, just the corners or behind goal etc, and also you've not factored pay as you go tickets game by game.

Would you rather it be more expensive?

No, I wish it was cheaper, I have a couple of ST's in the premium block. I just think £100 is too cheap and if there's only a limited amount, us current ST holders who get first dibs will renew and move to the cheap seats whicb will leave only the more expensive areas so won't entice new fans.

I agree something needs to be done, but £100 (£80 less vat) is too cheap when it's our only significant route for income. We also play an additional 6 home matches, compared to Germany.
 

GaryJones

Well-Known Member
Let everybody in for £1 for one Saturday League Game and see how many turn up!

My guess is we still wouldn't completely fill the place.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
Say we sell 20k £100 ST - that's £1.6m ticket revenue less VAT. We made £2.7m ticket revenue in 12/13, with 11k average. So double attendance and reduce ticket revenue by 40%.


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Is the 2.7 million ticket revenue reported for 12/13 also after tax has been deducted then?

Other things to consider would be single ticket sales, I guess with cheap season tickets you would get less but I assume still some maybe 500-1,000 or so each game which would add to the revenue.

And also remember season ticket sales are money in the bank straight away in the summer which can be spent by the club. I'm not sure how many ST holders we had in 12/13, probably about 6k at a guess? so a good portion of that 2.7m is likely coming from single ticket sales which is spread across 8-9 months of a season whereas ST sales are guaranteed revenue.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Is the 2.7 million ticket revenue reported for 12/13 also after tax has been deducted then?

Other things to consider would be single ticket sales, I guess with cheap season tickets you would get less but I assume still some maybe 500-1,000 or so each game which would add to the revenue.

And also remember season ticket sales are money in the bank straight away in the summer which can be spent by the club. I'm not sure how many ST holders we had in 12/13, probably about 6k at a guess? so a good portion of that 2.7m is likely coming from single ticket sales which is spread across 8-9 months of a season whereas ST sales are guaranteed revenue.

No idea, OSB or Godiva would know about that.

Problem is the more casuals that take up cheap ST offers, then there's less casuals taking up matchday tickets (if you can only go to 6-10 games a season, it's cheaper to buy a ST than 6-10 individual matchday tickets - based ok the £100 suggested compared to £22+ per match), then there's a mixture of adults, concessions and kids meaning you wouldn't be getting all 500-1000 at full price. Whilst ST's give you cash in the bank, if that's significantly less than than current prices, then you're gonna he to cut the wage bill to accommodate the slashed ticket prices.

Somehow you'd have to find the balance between getting more ST's sold and at least maintaining ticket income, otherwise that's going to lead to further cuts to the wage bill.
 

SkyBlueScottie

Well-Known Member
To take the Bayern argument. 2 million is nothing to them. 2 million to is a massive percentage of our budget. FFP and SCMP don't encourage to reduce ticket prices, it merely puts the emphasis on making more money...
 

Senior Vick from Alicante

Well-Known Member
I think the cash cow part of the statement is the line for me, people spend if they see investment and all our owners have done is cut,cut,cut. If new owners came in and invested in players with contracts I believe fans would come back, at this moment in time they can only expect cobbled together loans and kids, at the end of the day it's not what any one wants to contribute towards when you don't get value for money.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
To take the Bayern argument. 2 million is nothing to them. 2 million to is a massive percentage of our budget. FFP and SCMP don't encourage to reduce ticket prices, it merely puts the emphasis on making more money...

Yep, easy for Bayern 3rd richest club in the world and a turnover of over £400m pa.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
No idea, OSB or Godiva would know about that.

Problem is the more casuals that take up cheap ST offers, then there's less casuals taking up matchday tickets (if you can only go to 6-10 games a season, it's cheaper to buy a ST than 6-10 individual matchday tickets - based ok the £100 suggested compared to £22+ per match), then there's a mixture of adults, concessions and kids meaning you wouldn't be getting all 500-1000 at full price. Whilst ST's give you cash in the bank, if that's significantly less than than current prices, then you're gonna he to cut the wage bill to accommodate the slashed ticket prices.

Somehow you'd have to find the balance between getting more ST's sold and at least maintaining ticket income, otherwise that's going to lead to further cuts to the wage bill.

Yea I'm not saying it should be done, just pointing out its not as simple as your last post. And your comparison of 1.6 million to 2.7 million isn't a fair reflection, as the 12/13 number contains single ticket sales throughout the season and you don't know if both numbers are with/without VAT.


I know more people buying season tickets means less people buying match day tickets, but I think thats not necessarily always a bad thing. Its a decision for the club to make, do they want a guaranteed X amount from that customer every year or hope that customer spends more than X amount over the year with no guarantees that they will spend a single penny. If it was all about getting the max money we might as well bin off season tickets all together an charge everyone £22 a game.

We also don't know how the budgets are calculated, do they include projected ticket revenue which isn't guaranteed. Do they budget for minimum projected, maximum somewhere in the middle? At least with money in the pot the club know where they stand with there budget and would be able to manage there budgets better. What happens if they over budget and income isn't as high as expected, do we have to rejuggle our squad and vise versa if income is higher than expected. Doesn't mean the budgets will be higher but guaranteed income over potential income could be better for a club like us who is just looking for stability and in theory could lead to a much lower player turnover rate which should bring stability on the pitch.


personally I feel if the club have to take a hit in ticket revenue to get people coming again, its something that should be done. Not only just to get them coming through the gates again but I wouldn't underestimate the difference the crowd/atmosphere can have on a team, which is something Peter Taylor specifically said after the Gillingham match. The Ricoh is toxic at the moment during games.
 

rob9872

Well-Known Member
A few other overlooked advantages of filling cheaply are encouraging a fan base fir the next generation (although not the sisu way), a % of food and beverage income, more programmes, more shop sales etc. I would think a full Ricoh would attract players if the wages at two clubs were the same offer and I think bigger teams would allow us their better quality youngsters on loan to get them playing in front of a bigger crowd, so definitely merits in cheap tickets to fill it. On the downside I went to watch Leamington earlier this season and was disgusted to pay £12 for a ticket and they ate three leagues below us, with a significantly smaller budget, so we don't need to undersell the product either.



My idea for season tickets would be a sliding scale. On price anywhere and we start off at eg £500. The gardvore would buy one and commit. At 5000 tickets it drops to £400, 10000 its £300 and 15000 its £200. Then we don't give away what we nerd to and all those of us who commit first would do the marketing to push everyone up there to make our own tickets cheaper. Would obviously need a cut off date like 31st July.


.... and whilst we're at it ... why id my dad's ticket cheaper than mine? Yes he's retired, but its not like encouraging z cheap kids ticket for the next 50 years and needing a full price adult to accompany them. Dad is retire andd I guess like most of our older fans has more disposable money than I do, takes up a seat, can get there on his own (in fact fir free if he used the free bud pass he also receives as an oap) and yet pays z fraction of what I do. Clearly having fun and don't begrudge my own dad as no different to others, but oap's imo should pay full price. Tbh if they're still going at that age, then not many are giving up going based on price.
 

skybluericoh

Well-Known Member
Hope, ambition and dare I say success of some sort is the only way to get fans. New owners I would give them 3-5 years to bring some sort of success, but with this lot in charge the only way they would get me going again is by delivering some sort of hope. If they gave me free tickets and sent a car for me don't think I'd go at the mo. Fair play to the ones that do, they obviously are better people than me. I've had my football mojo seriously damaged by this lot and it will take a lot to repair it.
 

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