The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by jimmyhillsfanclub, Jun 8, 2016.

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
  1. Remain

    23 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. Leave

    35 vote(s)
    56.5%
  3. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. Not registered or not intention to vote

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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    Le Pan Sr polled 17.6%, his Daughter 34.5%,, she is 49 I would guess she will have another go next time.
    After which there is Marion Maréchal-Le Pen, Marine Le Pen's niece who at 28 is already a Deputy in Vacluse, (Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur )
     
  2. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    Overt. Not over.
     
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  3. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Le Pen fought on Frexit and drop the Euro... plus security... Macron fought for the EU with reform and liberal free markets. Neither were from the traditional camps with a history of positions on a wide range of subjects. It was as near to a referendum as you could get and Macron got a staggering 65%+.... Wilders didn't teach his target and great right hope missed the chance of becoming president in Austria. As people get used to seeing Trump and Brexit at work, the right wing renaissance is beginning to falter.., In Schleswig-Holstein the AfD only just scraped in .... the bubble for the AfD has burst...
     
  4. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    A few months is a long time in politics..
     
  5. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    You trying to cheer me up? She may have another go next time, but she still has legal problems and next time is way off...
     
  6. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused, why is Brexit automatically right wing/racist/fascist?
     
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  7. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    If you said 3 years ago marine Le pen would get to the second round of the presidential election and get 35% of the vote everyone would of laughed at you.

    A point also worth noting, many in France have voted for macron purely to stop Le pen getting in not because of their love for macron. Give him 5 years of further eu integration and stupid policies and see where they are then.
     
  8. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    Well they did say all brexit voters are stupid and confused
     
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  9. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    Austria were a whisker away from having a far right leader, I would hardly call that a success. It more means delaying the inevitable sadly. Right wing leaders were getting no where before and now all across the EU they are everyone. Why?
     
  10. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    Hey! I voted Leave! Oh, wait..... :rolleyes::bucktooth:
     
  11. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    It isn't automatically, but there is a strong element of right wing involved. The extreme right will be in favour of it - doesn't mean everyone else who supports Brexit is far right or necessarily right wing. I never said that Brexit is automatically fascist. Trump's supporters include many right wingers and his policies are right wing ( I include trump and co. in the sense of a right wing renaissance ).
     
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  12. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Fear. Fear of being left behind. Resentment. Lack of opportunities. All this channeled against the EU - although the EU isn't necessarily the main cause of the problems they perceive to have. The right wing is nationalistic and has the backing of the Murdoch press and some internet bloggers and publishers. Not to mention that the EU is a bigger player/ market than the US or Russia, if it were weakened they could profit.

    I doubt whether all voters actually know what the EU does, let alone how it is organised
     
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  13. Liquid Gold

    Liquid Gold Well-Known Member

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    Ha! 35% in a one or the other choice is a massive loss, there is no other way to gloss over that. The Front Nationale are the only party to lose by this margin since the post war years.

    Nice twist of argument by leavers again here, earlier in this thread it was "how is she racist/facist" now its "overt racist party". You're Murdoch's dream.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
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  14. Liquid Gold

    Liquid Gold Well-Known Member

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    Ha, pathetic. 'We won the war' is the argument of the idiot.
     
  15. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Are the communist party and the SWP right wing? Is Dave Nellist, is Jeremy Corbyn?
     
  16. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    No. I never said all Brexit people are right wing. I said right wing people would be attracted. My own brother is right wing and campaigned with Labour leave.
     
  17. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    The rest of Europe isn't as obsessed either way with the EU. Staunch kippers have always seen it as the root of all evil for some genuine and some spurious reasons .
    However, since the referendum, there is now a counter group to that view who seem to think the EU is brilliant without being to articulate why.

    Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
     
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  18. Liquid Gold

    Liquid Gold Well-Known Member

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  19. Macca

    Macca Well-Known Member

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    It's a guardian article FFS. Might as well quote the Mail on asylum seekers
     
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  20. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    No. It has been researched.
     
  21. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    EU membership is better than not being in a powerful bloc. 28 countries have a better bargaining position.

    That is the start and currently, as negotiations about the single market start - or don't - , the most obvious.

    The EU is the status quo, so it is up to the Brexiteers to give valid reasons to leave.

    A lot of unsupported, false, deliberately false and some valid arguments have been put forward.

    No one is saying the EU is brilliant, but some pretty dubious people don't like it. The article posted below your last post explains in more detail.
     
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  22. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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    New Banksy mural in Dover.
    [​IMG]
     
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  23. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    ...only those with an agenda would say those with an agenda would disagree.
     
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  24. Liquid Gold

    Liquid Gold Well-Known Member

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    What do you specifically disagree with in there?
     
  25. dutchman

    dutchman Well-Known Member

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  26. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    What is that supposed to signify? I thought France was not short of potential Islamic terrorists .., seems to be a pro Le Pen cartoon. Where was it?
     
  27. dutchman

    dutchman Well-Known Member

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  28. eastwoodsdustman

    eastwoodsdustman Well-Known Member

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  29. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    The authors a crackpot - she's obsessed with right wing manipulation of social media.
     
  30. Liquid Gold

    Liquid Gold Well-Known Member

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    Written by a former Telegraph journalist
     
  31. Liquid Gold

    Liquid Gold Well-Known Member

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    Because she has evidence that it might be true. What a crackpot.
     
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  32. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    What evidence? Her articles have two themes;

    Right wing organisations manipulate social media

    The targeted audience are brain dead idiots that are incapable of independent thought and go along with it.

    Her last attempt was the Holocaust.
     
  33. Liquid Gold

    Liquid Gold Well-Known Member

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    I assume testimony from the CPS and Electoral Commission aren't good enough for Grendel from SBT who's a world renowned expert on every fucking thing. Read the article mate. Tell me what you disagree with instead of denigrating the author.
     
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  34. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    The whole tenure of the article is that right wing organisations manipulate social media outlets to put across their message. Her key obsession is Google and Facebook and she tries to argue these forces control the minds of people and prevents them from independent thought

    She cites Trump, Brexit and oddly Holocaust denial.

    She omits to mention certain facts like for example regarding Trump - Clinton spent twice as much on a media campaign as he did. What do you think she did with the money? Spend it on petrol pump advertising?

    She also conveniently overlooks the Pro EU campaign which included a £9 million taxpayer funded brochure of "facts" none of which have materialised.

    The problem, I'm afraid, is she misses the point. Trump won, Brexit happened not because of manipulation but the voters who were not influenced by anything and did not turn out to vote. It is why Clinton lost for sure. People like her cannot understand or accept that "dumb" uneducated people have a view and an opinion that dares to differ from an elitist liberal media

    Her articles on holocaust denial is just bizarre. She pretty much says a lot of people are stupid and just buy theories they see in manipulated media. She fails to see the irony that she is doing exactly the same in her biased, liberal, condescending tripe
     
  35. Captain Dart

    Captain Dart Well-Known Member

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