The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (15 Viewers)

[Astute]

The majority want in the EU - voters and parties - and the government needs more EU immigration. Job Centres in some places are advertising in Greece and Spain.

Brexit and Trump have shown what can go wrong.

AfD have no policies and are not seen as competent - racist or not. 60% are protest votes - according to exit polls.

They will agrue with each other and it is likely there will be splits.

How do you know that most want in the EU? That wouldn't be known unless there was a vote. What we do know is that Merkels voters have had a massive change of mind. What has she done wrong?

I read that 39% of the AfD voters have an above average wage. The highest of any party. One fact I didn't expect.

 

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[clint van damme]

How do you know that most want in the EU? That wouldn't be known unless there was a vote. What we do know is that Merkels voters have had a massive change of mind. What has she done wrong?

I read that 39% of the AfD voters have an above average wage. The highest of any party. One fact I didn't expect.

Purely anecdotal but when I was in Berlin last year I didn't meet one person who thought the UK had done the right thing by voting Brexit.
However, it's quite possible that, like most countries, the opinions held in capital don't necessarily reflect the rest of the country.

 

[martcov]

How do you know that most want in the EU? That wouldn't be known unless there was a vote. What we do know is that Merkels voters have had a massive change of mind. What has she done wrong?

I read that 39% of the AfD voters have an above average wage. The highest of any party. One fact I didn't expect.

Opinion polls for the people and party policy for the parties. Anecdotal: I know no one that wants out of the EU. I know no-one who thinks that Brexit is a good idea. Not one person.

Yes that surprises me about the wages. Very surprised. Anecdotal: The people I know who support AfD are: a security guard, a car cleaner, a taxi driver, a storeman - all unskilled low wage earners who think refugees are better treated than they are, and are worried that refugees may later take their jobs or work for less money.

 

[martcov]

German far-right AfD MP quits hours after being elected

No sooner has it started that they start falling out with one another.

 

[NorthernWisdom]

German far-right AfD MP quits hours after being elected

No sooner has it started that they start falling out with one another.

Not racist enough for her by the looks of it.

 

[Grendel]

Opinion polls for the people and party policy for the parties. Anecdotal: I know no one that wants out of the EU. I know no-one who thinks that Brexit is a good idea. Not one person.

Yes that surprises me about the wages. Very surprised. Anecdotal: The people I know who support AfD are: a security guard, a car cleaner, a taxi driver, a storeman - all unskilled low wage earners who think refugees are better treated than they are, and are worried that refugees may later take their jobs or work for less money.

Well 13% voted to get out of the single currency.

 

[martcov]

Well 13% voted to get out of the single currency.

resounding success for the euro. Merkel said in answer to Junckers suggestion of expanding the eurozone: yes, if the countries apply and meet the criteria.

 

[martcov]

Not racist enough for her by the looks of it.

Gauland wants more taught about National Socialism in the schools.

 

[Grendel]

resounding success for the euro. Merkel said in answer to Junckers suggestion of expanding the eurozone: yes, if the countries apply and meet the criteria.

How is it a resounding success when only one party had a remotely anti Euro campaign and it was so extreme many wouldn't vote for it whatever their view on the EU and the Euro?

 

[martcov]

How is it a resounding success when only one party had a remotely anti Euro campaign and it was so extreme many wouldn't vote for it whatever their view on the EU and the Euro?

No-one puts the Euro at the top of his/ her priorities. It's accepted as a given. The Nazis don't like it - no surprise there.

 

[Ashdown]

No-one voted because Schultz wanted the EU to give us no concessions. No-one was interested in Brexit. Most want a strong EU. Those are not guesses.

The main issues for AfD voters were immigration, Islam and security. The AfD cannot agree internally on things like pensions and minimum wage ( compulsory or not ). People didn't vote AfD because of their competence. 60% voted purely as a protest vote ( according to polls ).

The immigrants that are least popular here are the Nafris ( North African from Marocco, Tunisia and Algeria ) and the Sinti and
Roma from Bulgaria and Romania. The country is split on the refugees. Some who voted AfD said the were for refugees, but were concerned about the lack of control, integration problems and are unhappy that they weren't consulted.

In the East the AfD are much stronger than where I am.

Lets be brutally honest here, I think you are correct in what you say and it applies in the UK too. People were not opposed by and large to educated folk from France, Germany, Holland, Italy, Eire etc arriving in the UK en masse, it was the mass movement from countries that you already identified plus other disrupted Muslim countries including that muted threat of Turkey joining the EU with 80 million citizens.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Opinion polls for the people and party policy for the parties. Anecdotal: I know no one that wants out of the EU. I know no-one who thinks that Brexit is a good idea. Not one person.

Yes that surprises me about the wages. Very surprised. Anecdotal: The people I know who support AfD are: a security guard, a car cleaner, a taxi driver, a storeman - all unskilled low wage earners who think refugees are better treated than they are, and are worried that refugees may later take their jobs or work for less money.

I travel Europe a lot, and I can agree with you on that. No one I know in Germany has been positive about our exit at all.

However, go to Slovakia, Italy, CZ, Poland etc... You find many many people there who are at very least interested, and if not quite supportive.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Not racist enough for her by the looks of it.

Keep on with that line of argument and votes will keep drifting away from the likes of Merkel in years to come.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

The analysis is that 60% of their voters ( according to polls ) used it as a protest vote - especially in the East. Where I am AfD is below 10% in the East up to over 20% in Saxony. It is seen as Nazi or racist- there are demos in Berlin in front of the building where they are celebrating. That implies that the majority of their voters are not hard line racists. There are some bad people in it though. I hope the FDP liberals get a good deal. They want an immigration law or ministry which lays down migration rules and the strengthening of the EU exterior borders.

The SPD have lost their basis to AfD in the working class areas because of the immigration problems.

So are you now admitting that there are issues with the refugees?

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Keep on with that line of argument and votes will keep drifting away from the likes of Merkel in years to come.

You reckon?

She's more racist than most of the party she's just quit from...

 

[martcov]

So are you now admitting that there are issues with the refugees?

The problems ( petty theft, pickpockets etc. ) here are caused by Sinti, Roma and Nafris. The problems and resentments are not usually against Poles, Italians, Spanish etc.. ( Although there are exceptions... my daughter's Spanish boyfriend got his nose broken in Hamburg for speaking Spanish ). There are issues with some refugees, but the Syrians are not the worst - statistically. There is more resentment in the East - probably because they are not used to foreigners/ immigrants. Some really strong AfD places hardly have any migrants.

 

[Ashdown]

The problems ( petty theft, pickpockets etc. ) here are caused by Sinti, Roma and Nafris. The problems and resentments are not usually against Poles, Italians, Spanish etc.. ( Although there are exceptions... my daughter's Spanish boyfriend got his nose broken in Hamburg for speaking Spanish ). There are issues with some refugees, but the Syrians are not the worst - statistically. There is more resentment in the East - probably because they are not used to foreigners/ immigrants. Some really strong AfD places hardly have any migrants.

And they read all the bad press and don't want them !
I read stuff here about crime in the Cities and who the police name as suspects or who they have convicted and I don't want them living near me either thanks !

 

[martcov]

And they read all the bad press and don't want them !
I read stuff here about crime in the Cities and who the police name as suspects or who they have convicted and I don't want them living near me either thanks !

Exactly what Gauland said. Whilst Boateng is a great footballer in the German team, he doubts whether anyone would like him as a neighbour. Wrong colour I assume....

 

[Ashdown]

Exactly what Gauland said. Whilst Boateng is a great footballer in the German team, he doubts whether anyone would like him as a neighbour. Wrong colour I assume....

What a shitty thing to say, I said I don't want foreign or any other criminals living down my road I couldn't care less what colour they are you prat!

 

[NorthernWisdom]

What a shitty thing to say, I said I don't want foreign or any other criminals living down my road I couldn't care less what colour they are you prat!

So basically you don't want any criminals. Their nationality is irrelevant.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Clive Lewis was thrown around as someone a few people on here wanted to be the next Labour leader right?

He's just been on national tv saying anyone that has issues with immigration are racist.

 

[Ashdown]

Clive Lewis was thrown around as someone a few people on here wanted to be the next Labour leader right?

He's just been on national tv saying anyone that has issues with immigration are racist.

Par for the course it's their answer to any opposing voices !

 

[Ashdown]

So basically you don't want any criminals. Their nationality is irrelevant.

Do you ?

 

[Grendel]

Clive Lewis was thrown around as someone a few people on here wanted to be the next Labour leader right?

He's just been on national tv saying anyone that has issues with immigration are racist.

Better tell that to Jeremy and the puppet master Mccluskey

 

[NorthernWisdom]

Do you ?

No.

I don't feel the need to mention whether I want foreign criminals specifically or not however. Surprised anybody would, unless they welcomed British ones.

 

[martcov]

In my ward AfD got 3,4%. In Kiel as a whole 6,9%. Nice here.

 

[Astute]

In my ward AfD got 3,4%. In Kiel as a whole 6,9%. Nice here.

So what you are saying is those most affected are those who voted for AfD?

 

[Grendel]

In my ward AfD got 3,4%. In Kiel as a whole 6,9%. Nice here.

Which shows the arrogance of the opulent.

 

[martcov]

So what you are saying is those most affected are those who voted for AfD?

Not necessarily.... the strongest AfD areas in Germany are the areas with the least immigrants in %. We have a lot of Turks in Kiel on the other side of the fiord. We were also a transit port for the refugees going to Sweden in 2015. We were more effected than many AfD areas. I live near the university and my area has a large number of students.

 

[martcov]

Which shows the arrogance of the opulent.

Not really as my area is not opulent. We have a university with 25000 students though - which may effect the vote in our area.

Kiel is not opulent as a whole. The SPD is the strongest party here.

 

[Astute]

Not necessarily.... the strongest AfD areas in Germany are the areas with the least immigrants in %. We have a lot of Turks in Kiel on the other side of the fiord. We were also a transit port for the refugees going to Sweden in 2015. We were more effected than many AfD areas. I live near the university and my area has a large number of students.

The areas you quote also have had a lack of investment. But they see billions going into the EU each year.

 

[Astute]

Not really as my area is not opulent. We have a university with 25000 students though - which may effect the vote in our area.

Kiel is not opulent as a whole. The SPD is the strongest party here.

So why did the coalition parties lose a lot of votes?

 

[martcov]

The areas you quote also have had a lack of investment. But they see billions going into the EU each year.

The areas in the East have received billions and billions from Aufbauost - paid from taxes and the EU. Their economy was wrecked by the war and then communism - not the EU. The EU has helped them. But, as I keep saying, the election wasn't about the EU. All major parties, and to an extent even AfD, are pro EU.

 

[martcov]

So why did the coalition parties lose a lot of votes?

They didn't lose so much here. AfD support is regional. More in the East than in the West and in some inner city areas in the West. The East remains poorer than the West as it has little manufacturing base because of it's communist past. It relies a lot on tourism and agriculture. They don't have many immigrants and the refugee crisis frightened and annoyed them. Merkel is very unpopular in some eastern areas, but not as unpopular in the West where there is full employment and a strong manufacturing and export sector.

 

[Astute]

The areas in the East have received billions and billions from Aufbauost - paid from taxes and the EU. Their economy was wrecked by the war and then communism - not the EU. The EU has helped them. But, as I keep saying, the election wasn't about the EU. All major parties, and to an extent even AfD, are pro EU.

Who blamed the EU?