The EU: In, out, shake it all about....

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by jimmyhillsfanclub, Jun 8, 2016.

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

Poll closed Jun 15, 2016.
  1. Remain

    23 vote(s)
    37.1%
  2. Leave

    35 vote(s)
    56.5%
  3. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  4. Not registered or not intention to vote

    1 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. NorthernWisdom

    NorthernWisdom Well-Known Member

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    tbf, I assumed he was joking...
     
  2. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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    Democracy means the U.K. Referendum is binding
     
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  3. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    Who said I don't want to listen to them? Or are you still in denial over a democratic result?

    There is a winner and a loser. There are no draws. Remain lost I'm pleased to say but then we make a brexit Britain for everyone not just 52% who voted for it.
     
  4. wingy

    wingy Well-Known Member

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    I make that 24% as against 4% in ours.
    If only they'd hadn't been persuaded to stay first time round, along with London which is like a Principality out on its own anyway, the margin for leave would have been respectively wide enough to kill this debate.
     
  5. ccfc92

    ccfc92 Well-Known Member

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    You'd hope so.

    Although her stamping of her feet for a second referendum suggest otherwise.
     
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  6. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Did it actually say that, or that it was advisory? If Scotland is no longer in the UK, that would be irrelevant. Not their problem.
     
  7. dutchman

    dutchman Well-Known Member

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    Cameron said it was although there is no such legal precedent.
     
  8. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    You have told me enough times to move on and join your club. I was never in denial of a small margin. You don't seem to get the possibility that there can be 2 losers here. One the remainers, and two the UK because of the result. No-one wins.
     
  9. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Well it was Cameron's referendum so he should know.
     
  10. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    Join what club?
     
  11. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    the "everything is going to be great" "global Britain" "they are queuing up to do trade deals with us" "our friends speak English" club
     
  12. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    Oh that one. I remember asking everyone to join that club now
     
  13. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    you asked me7 everyone to join and work together for the future - or words to that effect
     
  14. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    If they so wish, I would push for a London and Brighton & Hove alliance and stop funding the leaching leave areas. *

    * just following the tone of some on this thread.
     
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  15. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    I had the misfortune to click upon an article in the Brexiteers' mouthpiece, The Mail, by the vile Katie Hopkins. She described Sadiq Kahn as the mayor of Londonistan.

    That along with their piece about 'an openly gay ex Olympic fencer (shock horror) tells you all you need to know.
     
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  16. Kingokings204

    Kingokings204 Well-Known Member

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    What's wrong with that? Shouldn't we all come together after the vote and make brexit work for everyone?
     
  17. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Problem being people have different views on what Brexit is - e.g. hard Brexit, soft Brexit and treatment of EU citizens already here.

    We are not going to come together because of our differing opinions on the way forward. Brexit has hardly united the U.K.. In fact we now have more reasons not to come together. Before, we had left and right and party diffences - now Brexit crosses those lines and we have diffences within left and right and parties over Brexit.
     
  18. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    It is not going to happen. There are plenty of UK citizens who do not have dual nationality and are furious their rights are being taken away.
     
  19. shmmeee

    shmmeee Well-Known Member

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    Thought this was an interesting take on the right of citizens to remain argument: What the row over European citizens reveals about Theresa May



    No, politics means it's binding. Democracy means it's advisory.
     
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  20. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    First a far right party in Austria, now in Holland...looks like the Brexiteers dream is happening and the EUSSR dictatorship is crumbling before our very eyes.
     
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  21. scubasteve

    scubasteve Active Member

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    To be honest I think there is a big difference between what brexit voters wanted and Wilders in Holland, its a bit of a silly comparison. But if you think a far right party coming 2nd gaining 5 extra seats, to a centre right party is good for the left or the EU, then you are very misguided.
     
  22. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    The rise of the far right is not good for Europe as a whole, not just the EU. As before though, they will eventually be back on the fringes as we managed once before.

    Little appears to be said about the odious Farage interviewing and effectively promoting the leader of the French National Front.

    It is bizarre that not being happy wit Brexit, Brexiteers seem determined to see the break up of the entire EU.
     
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  23. mrtrench

    mrtrench Well-Known Member

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    Which British Brexiteers have said that they want to break up the whole EU? Who has said that they want the far right to gain power in Europe?
     
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  24. scubasteve

    scubasteve Active Member

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    just more labelling, anyone who voted leave must be far right, and want whole of Europe to break up. Its the EU that wants to control Europe and all its members not people who voted to leave, they want the opposite.
     
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  25. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    Are you implying that no leavers are far right, or that none of them expect or want a breakup of the EU? You may not, but many are and do.

    Are you saying that 28, or 27 European nations want to control Europe as a group? If so that is not unusual or undesirable. Who else would you suggest? Trump USA or Putin's Russia? Or do you simply want the EU to break up?
     
  26. scubasteve

    scubasteve Active Member

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    Of course im not saying there are no far right leave voters, just like im sure there are lefties who voted leave, doesn't make them the populous or to label anyone else who believes leaving the EU has far right opinions like wilders in Holland. That's the thing I don't see things as black and white and I don't label people one way or the other people can mix and match their opinions. im not the one who was getting excited like sick boy this morning because a far right movement increased there seats in Holland's government by 33% now 2nd in the country, as a victory for Europe and brexiters would be disappointed.

    im not that bothered its the decision on each and every country who they want to govern them, who am I to have an opinion on if France, Holland should stay or leave the EU. People who voted leave wanted Britons choice on their country, if that's the case in another country so be it, if not the same.
     
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  27. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    How many mich percentage did Wilders get in the end? I don't know yet. About 13%? Which would mean that the established parties got 87% between them.

    Extreme right didn't really come anywhere near power.

    What was the percentage increase for the greens? I think they are much happier than Wilders.

    Wilders thought he would get a lot more and be the number one.

    I think that people look at what the right actually does when it gets power. The people have not taken their country back in the USA or Britain - not to mention the situation in Russia and Turkey.

    Populist slogans are easily lapped up, but the reality at the end is quite a different thing.
     
  28. scubasteve

    scubasteve Active Member

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    but again what has the far right got to do with brexit? voting to leave does not make anyone far right or support anything the far right believes in. To put the 2 together is just wrong, a tactic people use to try and discredit anyone that believes that the EU doesn't work for this country as far right.
     
  29. Sick Boy

    Sick Boy Well-Known Member

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    Brexit was and is still lauded by the far right as a victory.
     
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  30. dutchman

    dutchman Well-Known Member

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    The current ruling party in Holland was considered 'far right' at one time! It actually lost seats last night but retains power. Before last night I wouldn't describe the Green-Left as being one of the 'established parties'. They did phenomenally well last night, boosted by the Islamic vote. Labour's vote completely collapsed, largely as a result of their failure to oppose austerity measures.

    Wilders vote increased, but not by as much as the media had led everyone to believe. His views on immigration and the €uro are shared by many Dutch voters across the political spectrum. Wilders won in Rotterdam which was the scene of recent ethnic rioting.

    The Christian Democrats did well after re-positioning themselves to the right, much how the British Liberal-Democrats did just before the 2010 election.

    Overall there was a shift from established centre parties to both right and left.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
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  31. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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  32. Grendel

    Grendel Well-Known Member

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  33. mrtrench

    mrtrench Well-Known Member

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    Some mammals are cats. Some cats are grey. Therefore all mammals are grey.
     
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  34. mrtrench

    mrtrench Well-Known Member

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    And also an awful lot of people who are not far anything. What's the point exactly? That some people with extreme views support Brexit? Sure, agreed. Just as some ginger-haired people do; some lesbians; some disabled people; some 18-year olds; some Liberals...

    EDIT: Not aimed at you Grendel.
     
  35. martcov

    martcov Well-Known Member

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    No-one ever said it was. It's a bit like AFD in Germany. They are not all extreme right, probably not even the majority are, but their movement has attracted a lot of extreme right wing people.
     

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