Wasps & Council conspire again

Discussion in 'Ricoh Row / Politics / SISU Section' started by jimmyhillsfanclub, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. jimmyhillsfanclub

    jimmyhillsfanclub Well-Known Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2016
  2. olderskyblue

    olderskyblue Well-Known Member

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    Weird

    I clicked on the link and only see a headline. No details whatsoever. Come back in here and chiefs post bemoaning CCC and wasps has disappeared too.
     
  3. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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  4. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    I thought it was strange that Simon didn't push them on the Severn Trent land and it was left at "no comment"....
     
  5. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    moved it to the other thread as people were talking about it in there.

    Sure its just another coincidence that Wasps who, according to their owner Richardson, aren't interested in property development 'I’m not a property developer, I’ve never developed anything in my life. I’ve never thought of this as something I might make profit from.' are now moving into property development.

    Building on green belt land no less that requires CCC to change the city plan. Wonder if they purchased the land at a price reflecting the restrictions in place or a price appropriate to a site being developed for housing?

    Seem to recall when we were talking about a stadium within the city boundary many were saying it was impossible if it wasn't in the city plan as that couldn't be changed.

    How much more evidence do people need that the council and Wasps are working hand in hand?
     
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  6. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    And strange that the council wouldn't let Severn Trent build on the land but are happy for Wasps to.
     
  7. jimmyhillsfanclub

    jimmyhillsfanclub Well-Known Member

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    I've "liked" it here too.
     
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  8. jimmyhillsfanclub

    jimmyhillsfanclub Well-Known Member

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    Key question......but I fear just another one we'll never know the true answer to.....

    ...this shady lot are starting to make the HR/Tesco/Ricoh deal look transparent & straightforward......
     
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  9. duffer

    duffer Well-Known Member

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    Surely no one here is saying that Wasps are demanding that SISU drop their legal action against the council in order to win a favourable planning decision (and hiding behind a shadow company to do so)?

    Good Lord, that would be an outrage. Poor, loveable, nomadic Wasps and the upright, open, decent and honest people who run Coventry City Council in some sort of sly, corrupt, secretive plan. Why I can't believe anyone could even countenance the idea.
     
  10. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    I doubt many will notice, everybody is looking in a different direction...
     
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  11. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    Of course not but I'm sure our local media, who have never done a deal with that same council to suppress stories for Wasps and the councils benefit will be thoroughly investigating the rapidly rising number of coincidences to ensure nothing untoward is going on.
     
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  12. duffer

    duffer Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. The CET will hold their feet to the fire on this, I've no doubt. Thank God we've got a press that can't be intimidated or bought into silence eh, or there's no telling what might go on.
     
  13. olderskyblue

    olderskyblue Well-Known Member

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    I tried it on chrome too, but still no story. clicked a link to Les' twitter, and voila, it was all there. Did wonder if something was going wrong with my PC or my short term memory. Didn't know you could move posts to other threads
     
  14. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    ANYTHING, to make sure it's a success. Lots of reputations are on the line here.
     
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  15. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    clearly they have a good working relationship, and work together, as to what or who they are conspiring against by this particular deal not sure unless you tie it to the AHC situation in some way. Both seem to gain by this proposal. Could there be secret handshakes on plans/deals, not naiive enough to think that couldn't be the case but we do not know there were - total transparency would be better but that's not the case for any of the parties involved in the greater saga of Coventry and the sports teams here - in reality business and property deals in particular rarely work that way

    Taking several steps back then (a) it is similar to what has been proposed by CCFC/SISU on other potential sites and by CRFC at BPA (b) could be worth tens of millions (eg 240 houses at £200k each = £48m (c) helps the council hosing shortage (d) potentially knocks a big hole in the £34m debt that apparently threatens Wasps future, that is once ownership of WPS Trading Ltd switches to Wasps Holdings Ltd (presently owned by Richardson & Armstrong). Should it get approved - wont it need to go to Sec of State because it is (a) greenbelt & (b) flood plain?

    People say things, circumstances/opportunities change, they say something different

    In much the same way as the whole engineered pattern to break the Ricoh lease was quite clever then the potential for Wasps in this deal is also quite clever

    Who owned the site whole site in the first place, Severn Trent or were others involved? If CCC land then sale value could be challenged but it has not been removed from green belt yet so I doubt there is a premium for potential planning

    Couple of interesting developments today, and delivered by the local reporters in a professional way
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
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  16. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    Was it mentioned if Severn Trent were given planning when they tried?

    The severn trent stuff was pointed out by si80 months ago, also mentioned they had a free box at Wasps as a sweetener.

    The timing again must be a coincidence.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2016
  17. stupot07

    stupot07 Well-Known Member

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    I doubt they would make anywhere near that much money. I remember watching a programme on BBC now long ago about building costs, etc of big housing providers and the profit wasnt as big as you'd think it would be.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
     
  18. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    wasn't saying they would make £48m stupot that's an example top line a developer might make before deducting costs, I would think WSP Trading will sell the site on with full planning permission and take a profit on that which could be millions
     
  19. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    Sort of like the telegraph are trying to do?
     
  20. fernandopartridge

    fernandopartridge Well-Known Member

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    Read an article that stated a margin of 7% for a small house-builder and 11.7% for a large one, though read elsewhere that Barratts were looking at 40%. Though once permission is granted you might see Wasps sell the land on to an actual house-builder. I have no idea how much it would cost to build an estate of 240 houses including all the infrastructure work required (no doubt CCC will find something to help this part).
     
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  21. wingy

    wingy Well-Known Member

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    Roughly £100K to build a 4bed. detached.
     
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  22. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    Does raise questions though doesn't it. If ST tried to do the same and were told it wasn't possible so sold the land at a lower value to Wasps and then once Wasps own it suddenly it can be built on and is worth far more.
     
  23. oldskyblue58

    oldskyblue58 CCFC Finance Director

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    I would have much more problem with it had CCFC been refused then Wasps got the permission

    as an aside what it does highlight is that by thinking unconventionally there are deals to be done that could benefit a sports team that do not centre on the stadium site.

    In my opinion whoever the owners are at CCFC they need to think differently to the accepted norm from now on if they are to turn things around, but it will require the calculated risk of new capital and building partnerships
     
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  24. oldfiver

    oldfiver Well-Known Member

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    Strange though the only potential developer in the area to achieve this is a WASPs offshoot - wonder when they were given the nod about going from Green Belt to Resi
    Still I expect CCC to have a top slice arrangement and it will cover part cost of a swimming pool?

    Incidentally it is the uplift achieved from green belt to resi where the money is - not in the actual build
     
  25. oldfiver

    oldfiver Well-Known Member

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    Do you think
    A) WASPS will meet the Gearing Covenants for the Bond Holders in the accounting year just past
    b) That the overdue revaluation of the Arena Stadium will go up or down? Allowing for the uncertainty in the CCC lease position, the non appearance of the JLR naming rights, no stand naming rights and there has to be a substantial dilapidation schedule from what is rumoured?
     
  26. dongonzalos

    dongonzalos Well-Known Member

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    What a shame we haven't got a relationship like this with the council
     
  27. SkyBlueZack

    SkyBlueZack Well-Known Member

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    It's shameful. Still got people defending and excusing the council though. They appear to be unable to do no wrong with some people. There is no doubt this has been concocted. It's a council assisting a private company to make money. They couldn't give the local team this assistance of course. Why should it just be given away? Councils are not here to aide failing sports teams. Well blow me down. Get your heads out your arses all that are conspicuous by their absence on this thread.

    How about Gilbert or Reid put a request to see if the council bought any of the bonds?
     
  28. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    Saddening. Does look like Wasps are now here to stay. :(

    Would be interested to know what the reasons were for Severn Trent being turned down. I don't think you can simply say STW were tuned down, but Wasps got it. The key could be as to why STW were tuned down.

    Still sad news.
     
  29. will am i

    will am i Active Member

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    So the council are happy to work with private business even hedge funds but not SISU. Do you ever wonder why its only SISU no one will deal with or are you always looking in a different direction?
     
  30. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    It's a fair point and is often glossed over on here. I heard a few years back (within the council and within Higgs) that I simply wouldn't believe some of things about Sisu and how they conducted business. The words I heard were 'shocking' and 'unbelievable.'

    I do understand a lot of the wrath around at the moment, 'why do this for Wasps but not for Sisu,' but this I do think is a big factor, that of Sisu with the batter people in court mentality and falling out with a number of organisations.

    As with everything pretty much, it's not all just black and white.
     
  31. Nick

    Nick Administrator

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    What about before SISU? What about things like the Open Doors stuff?

    Let's not pretend there is massive amounts of back scratching going on and that everything is just co-incidence :)
     
  32. Otis

    Otis Well-Known Member

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    There is back scratching going on.

    I like many others though believe that the council are not 'against' the football club, just Sisu.

    Yes, yes, I know, that in turn hurts the club in hurting Sisu, but I think there is a short term pain for long term gain scenario being played out.

    There are a fair number of councillors who are Coventry City supporters, but I do believe the council have a twinkle in their eye that is blinkering them somewhat and they are just salivating over the thought of maybe the biggest rugby club in the world on their doorstep.

    Also one very big beady eye is on the City of Culture bid, which Wasps seem to be totally onboard with.

    Double whammy!!
     
  33. oldfiver

    oldfiver Well-Known Member

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    Most citizens and traders havent a good relationship with this Council!
     
  34. Rusty Trombone

    Rusty Trombone Well-Known Member

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    Update from the Observer.

    UPDATE: Land Registry documents show part of the Green Belt land was sold on April 12 this year by Severn Trent Water to WPS Trading Ltd for £900,000 plus VAT.
     
  35. chiefdave

    chiefdave Well-Known Member

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    What sort of acreage was it?
     

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