wasps (1 Viewer)

duffer

Well-Known Member
For Me the real story is how Worcester get first call on our Talent and the RFU are looking at no relegation or promotion unless you meet certain criteria , that is likely to be min stadium size and winning the championship X years on the trot so that you may get more than the single point that London Welsh have managed this season. The gulf between the Aviva Premiership and the championship is massive now and growing.

This more than anything is the biggest danger to Cov RFC. As usual once the market becomes competitive (professional) the doors are swiftly closed for those not quick off the mark.

Can see it now with the Premier league and how the cash is distributed to the lower leagues, Rich clubs lecturing Poor clubs how to spend their money so that can never truly compete!

I don't think Worcester necessarily get first call on our talent - but others have made the point that the best youngsters playing don't often end up at Cov RFC. That would be just as true if Wasps had an academy here of course.

As for closing off the top division, I'm with you in that it's an absolute abomination. Money, as NW has pointed out, is contaminating the sport in the same way as football, and the RFU look even more toothless than the FA and FL (hard to believe, I know).

I'll make a point here in that this model of a closed off league very closely follows US sports like the NFL. There of course, franchising is taken for granted. Massively rich teams (often 'charities' that pay no tax) force local authorities to build them bigger and better stadia at the expense of the public purse. If they get a better offer from a different city, they move lock, stock and barrel with no thought of the fans. Does this sound familiar, perhaps? ;)
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
But the post is inferring Wasps will leave and that they will sell the stadium at a profit.
So in theory it's a rubbish rumour.

In reality I think he meant the lease, not the stadium.

Re the Academy, I think they will face a very strong legal challenge if they try to relocate to Coventry, or surrounding area, as Worcester will not be happy, and they will be ably supported by the Saints and Tigers who will not want Wasps impinging on their talent pool.
 

albatross

Well-Known Member
Back to the OP there was an interesting article in the Sunday times this week and given that Derek Richardson is now chairman of the board of WASPS as pre the recent announcement I don't think he is likely to lose interest anytime soon some have floated as a possibility.

Sunday Time extract..


So happy they were sent to Coventry

Fans fumed when Wasps’ new owner moved north, but huge crowds and transformed finances soon won them over.

After Derek Richardson announced he would be moving Wasps rugby club from its home in High Wycombe, 30 miles west of London, all the way to Coventry, he had an important phone call to make.

Some of the club’s long-standing supporters had been protesting about the rumoured move. “One of them, a guy called Steve, was very angry. Once the news had gone out properly, I rang him and spent 45 minutes on the phone with him,” said Richardson.

By the end of the call, Steve was placated — as well as pleasantly surprised that the owner had bothered to get on the phone personally. “He understood where we were coming from,” said the Wasps chairman.

Upping sticks and shifting the club 75 miles up the M40 had been a controversial decision but one vital to the club’s survival, said Richardson, an Irish insurance tycoon worth £44m as calculated by The Sunday Times Rich List.

When he bought Wasps two years ago, the club was on the verge of going bust. Its former stars include Lawrence Dallaglio, Josh Lewsey and Kenny Logan, and the Heineken Cup (Europe’s top club competition) was won as recently as 2007, but it was losing £3m a year and faced being wound up.

Richardson wanted to move so the club could become master of its own destiny. He denied the intention had always been to switch to Coventry’s Ricoh Arena: “It did not come into the equation until very late in the process.” Richardson had been courted by numerous local authorities from inside and outside the M25 before striking a deal to move to the West Midlands.

It is rather reminiscent of moves more commonly seen in America, where sports franchises move with surprising regularity. In American football, teams might move because city councils offer incentives to lure them, or owners believe a change of location will prove more lucrative. The same phenomenon can be seen in basketball.

Los Angeles once boasted two National Football League outfits, called the Rams and the Raiders. The former now play in St Louis, Missouri, while the latter have at least remained in California, returning to their original home up the coast in Oakland.

On this side of the Atlantic, such moves are highly unusual. Perhaps the most famous recent example is Wimbledon football club. In 2003, it was transplanted from southwest London to Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire. A year after the relocation, which required the blessing of football’s governing body, the club was renamed MK Dons. The change provoked such hostility among the Wimbledon faithful that they backed the formation of a new team, AFC Wimbledon, who have worked their way up the football pyramid and now play in League Two, the fourth tier.

American-owned Manchester United, the butt of jokes about the number of supporters they have in the home counties, opened a commercial office in central London in a bid to boost income from sponsorship deals. Not even the much- criticised Glazer family, who bought the Old Trafford club in 2005, would be likely to try to relocate it.

Richardson argues that comparing Wasps with what happens in America is unfair. “It’s not quite the same,” he said. “In America, you are talking about [teams moving] hundreds of miles. We are 60 or 70 miles away. It’s so small over here. It’s important to understand that.”

He also said moving Wasps has prompted nothing like the kind of outrage and angst the Milton Keynes switch caused for football fans. “There was an initial backlash. I believe I am right that 95% of people [behind] the backlash have done a full 360 degrees by virtue of us being able to explain why we were moving,” he said. The Wimbledon-Milton Keynes affair “was a totally different scenario”.

Attendance at Wasps’ new home appears to back his argument. When Wasps were sharing Adams Park with Wycombe Wanderers football club, the average crowd numbered 5,500. Since moving up the motorway, the side are drawing average attendances of triple that: about 17,700. Wasps’ biggest gate since moving last autumn was 28,254 for the match against London Irish, a Premiership record for a home ground fixture. The club has also hung on to about two-thirds of its season ticket holders.

Richardson argues that fans have a better deal under the new set-up because the transport links make it easier to get into and out of the new home than it was at Wycombe.

“At Adams Park, it was a monster job getting in and out of the ground. We are positive the vast majority of our supporters get to the Ricoh door-to-door quicker than they did to Adams Park. You are straight out of the ground and on to the motorway,” said Richardson.

He adds that transport links will be further boosted by the creation of a new railway station at the stadium that will provide a shuttle service to Coventry city centre.

Sports marketing experts sympathise with Richardson, claiming he had little choice but to move the club. “This was not about someone buying a franchise and moving it. This was about survival,” said Tim Crow, chief executive of Synergy, the sports sponsorship agency. “It was a desperate situation that required desperate measures.”

Wasps hold a 250-year lease on the stadium, having acquired Arena Coventry, the stadium management business, in a £20m deal from the local council and the Alan Edward Higgs charity, which had each owned half. The council continues to own the freehold of the stadium.

Although Richardson stands behind the club right now, his aim is for Wasps to become financially self-sufficient. “If we are not self-sustainable this year, we definitely will be next year,” he said, adding that “Wasps won’t be dependent on my money for very much longer”.

The rugby club, along with the stadium business (which includes a hotel, casino and conference centre), generates total revenues of about £20m. Richardson, who still has a foothold in the insurance industry through the online broker Hello.ie, talks regularly of the need to generate a year-round income rather than just on match days in the season. While Wasps were playing at Adams Park, they collected about £15 of every £100 that came through the gate. Now they collect the lot.

“We’ve gone from having the second-smallest turnover in the Premiership to the second-largest in Europe [behind Toulouse],” said Richardson. He expects to overtake the French club before long.

Income from match-day corporate hospitality has been significantly boosted, given the much larger facilities and greater number of boxes at the Ricoh. An added bonus has been the return to the ground last year of Coventry City football club, which had quit the stadium after getting into financial trouble. That was not in the original business plan, said Richardson.

Wasps, along with their fellow Premiership sides, may also benefit if a long-mooted plan to increase the number of clubs in the top flight, and to “ring-fence” them so there is no longer the risk of relegation, is approved. Richardson said “the jury is out” on the advantages of the latter scheme.

The club will not benefit directly from the rugby World Cup later this year as the Ricoh is not a tournament venue. Despite that, Richardson said the event will raise the profile of the game and draw in new fans. “It will be very positive for us,” he said.

And if that helps to keep fans like Steve happy in Wasps’ new home, so much the better.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Back to the OP there was an interesting article in the Sunday times this week and given that Derek Richardson is now chairman of the board of WASPS as pre the recent announcement I don't think he is likely to lose interest anytime soon some have floated as a possibility.

Sunday Time extract..


So happy they were sent to Coventry

Fans fumed when Wasps’ new owner moved north, but huge crowds and transformed finances soon won them over.

After Derek Richardson announced he would be moving Wasps rugby club from its home in High Wycombe, 30 miles west of London, all the way to Coventry, he had an important phone call to make.

Some of the club’s long-standing supporters had been protesting about the rumoured move. “One of them, a guy called Steve, was very angry. Once the news had gone out properly, I rang him and spent 45 minutes on the phone with him,” said Richardson.

By the end of the call, Steve was placated — as well as pleasantly surprised that the owner had bothered to get on the phone personally. “He understood where we were coming from,” said the Wasps chairman.

Upping sticks and shifting the club 75 miles up the M40 had been a controversial decision but one vital to the club’s survival, said Richardson, an Irish insurance tycoon worth £44m as calculated by The Sunday Times Rich List.

When he bought Wasps two years ago, the club was on the verge of going bust. Its former stars include Lawrence Dallaglio, Josh Lewsey and Kenny Logan, and the Heineken Cup (Europe’s top club competition) was won as recently as 2007, but it was losing £3m a year and faced being wound up.

Richardson wanted to move so the club could become master of its own destiny. He denied the intention had always been to switch to Coventry’s Ricoh Arena: “It did not come into the equation until very late in the process.” Richardson had been courted by numerous local authorities from inside and outside the M25 before striking a deal to move to the West Midlands.

It is rather reminiscent of moves more commonly seen in America, where sports franchises move with surprising regularity. In American football, teams might move because city councils offer incentives to lure them, or owners believe a change of location will prove more lucrative. The same phenomenon can be seen in basketball.

Los Angeles once boasted two National Football League outfits, called the Rams and the Raiders. The former now play in St Louis, Missouri, while the latter have at least remained in California, returning to their original home up the coast in Oakland.

On this side of the Atlantic, such moves are highly unusual. Perhaps the most famous recent example is Wimbledon football club. In 2003, it was transplanted from southwest London to Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire. A year after the relocation, which required the blessing of football’s governing body, the club was renamed MK Dons. The change provoked such hostility among the Wimbledon faithful that they backed the formation of a new team, AFC Wimbledon, who have worked their way up the football pyramid and now play in League Two, the fourth tier.

American-owned Manchester United, the butt of jokes about the number of supporters they have in the home counties, opened a commercial office in central London in a bid to boost income from sponsorship deals. Not even the much- criticised Glazer family, who bought the Old Trafford club in 2005, would be likely to try to relocate it.

Richardson argues that comparing Wasps with what happens in America is unfair. “It’s not quite the same,” he said. “In America, you are talking about [teams moving] hundreds of miles. We are 60 or 70 miles away. It’s so small over here. It’s important to understand that.”

He also said moving Wasps has prompted nothing like the kind of outrage and angst the Milton Keynes switch caused for football fans. “There was an initial backlash. I believe I am right that 95% of people [behind] the backlash have done a full 360 degrees by virtue of us being able to explain why we were moving,” he said. The Wimbledon-Milton Keynes affair “was a totally different scenario”.

Attendance at Wasps’ new home appears to back his argument. When Wasps were sharing Adams Park with Wycombe Wanderers football club, the average crowd numbered 5,500. Since moving up the motorway, the side are drawing average attendances of triple that: about 17,700. Wasps’ biggest gate since moving last autumn was 28,254 for the match against London Irish, a Premiership record for a home ground fixture. The club has also hung on to about two-thirds of its season ticket holders.

Richardson argues that fans have a better deal under the new set-up because the transport links make it easier to get into and out of the new home than it was at Wycombe.

“At Adams Park, it was a monster job getting in and out of the ground. We are positive the vast majority of our supporters get to the Ricoh door-to-door quicker than they did to Adams Park. You are straight out of the ground and on to the motorway,” said Richardson.

He adds that transport links will be further boosted by the creation of a new railway station at the stadium that will provide a shuttle service to Coventry city centre.

Sports marketing experts sympathise with Richardson, claiming he had little choice but to move the club. “This was not about someone buying a franchise and moving it. This was about survival,” said Tim Crow, chief executive of Synergy, the sports sponsorship agency. “It was a desperate situation that required desperate measures.”

Wasps hold a 250-year lease on the stadium, having acquired Arena Coventry, the stadium management business, in a £20m deal from the local council and the Alan Edward Higgs charity, which had each owned half. The council continues to own the freehold of the stadium.

Although Richardson stands behind the club right now, his aim is for Wasps to become financially self-sufficient. “If we are not self-sustainable this year, we definitely will be next year,” he said, adding that “Wasps won’t be dependent on my money for very much longer”.

The rugby club, along with the stadium business (which includes a hotel, casino and conference centre), generates total revenues of about £20m. Richardson, who still has a foothold in the insurance industry through the online broker Hello.ie, talks regularly of the need to generate a year-round income rather than just on match days in the season. While Wasps were playing at Adams Park, they collected about £15 of every £100 that came through the gate. Now they collect the lot.

“We’ve gone from having the second-smallest turnover in the Premiership to the second-largest in Europe [behind Toulouse],” said Richardson. He expects to overtake the French club before long.

Income from match-day corporate hospitality has been significantly boosted, given the much larger facilities and greater number of boxes at the Ricoh. An added bonus has been the return to the ground last year of Coventry City football club, which had quit the stadium after getting into financial trouble. That was not in the original business plan, said Richardson.

Wasps, along with their fellow Premiership sides, may also benefit if a long-mooted plan to increase the number of clubs in the top flight, and to “ring-fence” them so there is no longer the risk of relegation, is approved. Richardson said “the jury is out” on the advantages of the latter scheme.

The club will not benefit directly from the rugby World Cup later this year as the Ricoh is not a tournament venue. Despite that, Richardson said the event will raise the profile of the game and draw in new fans. “It will be very positive for us,” he said.

And if that helps to keep fans like Steve happy in Wasps’ new home, so much the better.

Was "Steve's" real name Nicky?
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
Was "Steve's" real name Nicky?

According to Wasps' web site, they are set to break their own attendance record against Leicester on 09. May - 800% increase in interest in comparison to this time last year ( for this fixture ). Some on here talk of falling attendances at Wasps and free tickets. Who do you believe? Bitter CCFC fans or the published figures? My opinion is that this shows where we should be and would have been if things had been handled better. Yes, I too am bitter, but not because of Wasps' success....
 

lordsummerisle

Well-Known Member
According to Wasps' web site, they are set to break their own attendance record against Leicester on 09. May - 800% increase in interest in comparison to this time last year ( for this fixture ). Some on here talk of falling attendances at Wasps and free tickets. Who do you believe? Bitter CCFC fans or the published figures? My opinion is that this shows where we should be and would have been if things had been handled better. Yes, I too am bitter, but not because of Wasps' success....

The free tickets and attendances go hand in hand, and indisputable fact that free tickets for Wasps games have been showered like confetti.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
According to Wasps' web site, they are set to break their own attendance record against Leicester on 09. May - 800% increase in interest in comparison to this time last year ( for this fixture ). Some on here talk of falling attendances at Wasps and free tickets. Who do you believe? Bitter CCFC fans or the published figures? My opinion is that this shows where we should be and would have been if things had been handled better. Yes, I too am bitter, but not because of Wasps' success....

I'm sure if Man United were coming to play us in a couple of weeks time we would sell out. The leicester game was always going to be a near sell out, leicester sell out most weeks and a 20 miles down the road. my guess is there will be a more leicester fans than wasps 'fans' attending that game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 

martcov

Well-Known Member
I'm sure if Man United were coming to play us in a couple of weeks time we would sell out. The leicester game was always going to be a near sell out, leicester sell out most weeks and a 20 miles down the road. my guess is there will be a more leicester fans than wasps 'fans' attending that game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)

they say over 2000 are in hospitality.... It is interesting to see how things are developing. They seem happy ( at least they tell us they are ). We won't know for sure until the accounts for 2015 are published. Wish we were booming and were playing Man U next week......
 

Nick

Administrator
they say over 2000 are in hospitality.... It is interesting to see how things are developing. They seem happy ( at least they tell us they are ). We won't know for sure until the accounts for 2015 are published. Wish we were booming and were playing Man U next week......
See you in the match thread in half an hour :)
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
they say over 2000 are in hospitality.... It is interesting to see how things are developing. They seem happy ( at least they tell us they are ). We won't know for sure until the accounts for 2015 are published. Wish we were booming and were playing Man U next week......

We won't know until 4-5 years down the line when the curiosity and free tickets dry up. The 2015 accounts will tell us very little.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)
 

Moff

Well-Known Member
We won't know until 4-5 years down the line when the curiosity and free tickets dry up. The 2015 accounts will tell us very little.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse any spelling or grammar errors :)

Spot on Stupot. People who think this years accounts will reveal the full truth are way off the mark.

We will wait to see what attendances are in several years when the winter comes, and the novelty has long worn off. They will lose a proportion of current season ticket holders who no longer wish to travel so far to games, and it will interesteing to see how many locals commit to one in the next few years. It will alos be interesting to see how attendances fair when the great free ticket confetti give away ends.

And of course the Tigers game will be well attended. The Tigers regularly have over 20k at home and a lot of them will want to watch their team at such a close location, especially as their will be plenty of spare tickets. I expect more Tigers fans than Wasps and a comfortable away win.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
According to Wasps' web site, they are set to break their own attendance record against Leicester on 09. May - 800% increase in interest in comparison to this time last year ( for this fixture ). Some on here talk of falling attendances at Wasps and free tickets. Who do you believe? Bitter CCFC fans or the published figures? My opinion is that this shows where we should be and would have been if things had been handled better. Yes, I too am bitter, but not because of Wasps' success....

You clearly are a troll. Why don't you just fuck off?
 

Woz01

Member
Wasps announce 21,000 tickets have been sold for the Leicester game on May 9th, tickets only been on sale for 10 days. 2,000 of that is hospitality.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Wasps announce 21,000 tickets have been sold for the Leicester game on May 9th, tickets only been on sale for 10 days. 2,000 of that is hospitality.

The other 19,000 are probably Leicester fans! In all seriousness its a shame you don't get home and away attendances for rugby. People wouldn't be jumping up and down about how fantastic it is if we were playing Man Utd at the Ricoh and 25K of the tickets were sold to their fans.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Wasps announce 21,000 tickets have been sold for the Leicester game on May 9th, tickets only been on sale for 10 days. 2,000 of that is hospitality.

How's the sale of tickets to the next home game going?
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
The other 19,000 are probably Leicester fans! In all seriousness its a shame you don't get home and away attendances for rugby. People wouldn't be jumping up and down about how fantastic it is if we were playing Man Utd at the Ricoh and 25K of the tickets were sold to their fans.

Are there ticket allocations for away teams in Rugby or are the tickets just sold to anyone who wants them?
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
Are there ticket allocations for away teams in Rugby or are the tickets just sold to anyone who wants them?

They can go where they want it's all one big love in!

I bet they will do a roaring trade in half and half scarves for this game for all the people that used to watch Tigers and are now life long Wasps fans!
 

duffer

Well-Known Member
I don't doubt that they'll get a big crowd for this one. I'm not sure that it necessarily points to anything significant, the true test of attendances and the benefit to the local region will be in a year or two when we see how Wasps, CCFC, and CRFC are all fairing.

Of course, as a London club Wasps used to get a share of the 66,000+ at Twickenham for the double-headers played there, probably at a lot more than £15 a pop too. I wonder if they'll reclaim London status when this comes around again next season?
 

Covkid1968#

Well-Known Member
Giving serious consideration to going Wasps v Leics game. To those who have gone to the Ricoh for Rugby, is there an end where the Wasps fans mainly congregate. I like the banter at Rugby games but Im not sure I want to sit surrounded by Leics fans.

I live in Leics and thats hard enough:)
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Giving serious consideration to going Wasps v Leics game. To those who have gone to the Ricoh for Rugby, is there an end where the Wasps fans mainly congregate. I like the banter at Rugby games but Im not sure I want to sit surrounded by Leics fans.

I live in Leics and thats hard enough:)

Wasps 'fans' are all over the stadium but I get the impression the 'longer term' Wasps fans are in the double tier stand.
Away fans tend to group in a couple of areas targeted by their forums, but you can expect to be by the odd Leicester fan anywhere.
 

Covkid1968#

Well-Known Member
Wasps 'fans' are all over the stadium but I get the impression the 'longer term' Wasps fans are in the double tier stand.
Away fans tend to group in a couple of areas targeted by their forums, but you can expect to be by the odd Leicester fan anywhere.

Cheers chap
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
I'm just gutted CCFC will probably never own the Ricoh, I'm perplexed as to why a lot of others are not also equally gutted as I am.

We have been there and moved on.
Some still hope that in years to come Wasps will move out and Sisu can resume their 'master' plan of getting the Ricoh for nothing.
May sound funny, but, some actually believe that we will then own our own stadium and get all the incomes.
 

Broken Hearted Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
We have been there and moved on.
Some still hope that in years to come Wasps will move out and Sisu can resume their 'master' plan of getting the Ricoh for nothing.
May sound funny, but, some actually believe that we will then own our own stadium and get all the incomes.

A few months ago there was an offer on the table Joy wouldn't take it though.
 

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
We have been there and moved on.
Some still hope that in years to come Wasps will move out and Sisu can resume their 'master' plan of getting the Ricoh for nothing.
May sound funny, but, some actually believe that we will then own our own stadium and get all the incomes.

It won't happen, our last straw has been sold from beneath us.

People want to hope for a better tomorrow so I can understand why people want to hold onto that hope that by some twist of fate we will get the Ricoh. I have now accepted the hopelessness of our predicament, I'm sure one day it will dawn on the rest of our fans.

Shit owners, shit support, no stadium and no revenues = L1 or worse for at least the foreseeable future and beyond
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
It won't happen, our last straw has been sold from beneath us.

People want to hope for a better tomorrow so I can understand why people want to hold onto that hope that by some twist of fate we will get the Ricoh. I have now accepted the hopelessness of our predicament, I'm sure one day it will dawn on the rest of our fans.

Shit owners, shit support, no stadium and no revenues = L1 or worse for at least the foreseeable future and beyond

Once we start winning and moving up the leagues all will be fine.
Just need to see progress and fans will return.
Need to get youngsters engaged (free) but even they are not stupid and struggle to support Sisu's piss take of a team.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
We have been there and moved on.
Some still hope that in years to come Wasps will move out and Sisu can resume their 'master' plan of getting the Ricoh for nothing.
May sound funny, but, some actually believe that we will then own our own stadium and get all the incomes.

You had moved on within 24 hours.

How are we going to own the ricoh when wasps own it? Our only chance of that is for them to fail and bugger off back down to London.


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SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
Once we start winning and moving up the leagues all will be fine.
Just need to see progress and fans will return.
Need to get youngsters engaged (free) but even they are not stupid and struggle to support Sisu's piss take of a team.

It's not enough, this is your own straw that you are still grasping to. One day you will accept the hopelessness of it all, the same way in which those hoping Wasps will leave and CCFC get the Ricoh will also have to accept it and let go of that straw.
 

stupot07

Well-Known Member
Once we start winning and moving up the leagues all will be fine.
Just need to see progress and fans will return.
Need to get youngsters engaged (free) but even they are not stupid and struggle to support Sisu's piss take of a team.

What leagues are we going to move up? Yeah, we can compete and battle for promotion from league one, but we can't compete in the championship with limited access to matchday only revenue, unless we get a billionaire owner, which is highly unlikely given we're not stuck as long term matchday only tenants.


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italiahorse

Well-Known Member
What leagues are we going to move up? Yeah, we can compete and battle for promotion from league one, but we can't compete in the championship with limited access to matchday only revenue, unless we get a billionaire owner, which is highly unlikely given we're not stuck as long term matchday only tenants.


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Stop moaning, we are where we are so lets start winning, fill the stadium and get on with it.
You don't also run the club shop do you ? They've given up hope as well.
 

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