SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
Bore off italia. It's always the same all sisus fault line. Move on.
What are Sisu's motives for staying? (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter OyJimmy
- Start date
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Totally agree with Italiahorse on this one. As you say Tm has been given a workable budget. Both Burton and Walsall were lucky to have players who want to play for each other and the Club. This shower of prima donna's(Murphy) hits a good shot and stands there for 5 mins admiring it. Ricketts shouldn't even be playing "Walk Football" Cole, been over the hill for quite a few years now(Should be carrying a oxygen tank and mask on the pitch with him) As for Fleck.. The most overrated player at the Club. Hit a 60 yards pass perfectly, then follows it up with 5 more 60 yarders that couldn't hit a barn door. I think Arma has been played way out of position for at least 3 months Maddison hasn't wanted to know since his "Big signing to Norwich"... Martin, Stokes, Vincelot, and RCC are the only ones that seem to care about the Club. Very sad situation
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Burton, Walsall, Gillingham, Southend, Rochdale will all likely have lower budgets than us. Yeovil got promoted a few seasons back on less than half our budget this season, TM has more than adequate budget this season. He's had total control of the where those resources go, he's chosen the players not sisu.
Sorry Italia but this second half of this season is entirely Mowbray's and the players fault not sisu's.
Every one in league one (unless you still receive parachute payments) shop in poundland.
Perhaps just isn't that good a manager.
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Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I look at it and it's been TM's choice. And he's infinitely more qualified to pick them than both you and I.
Incidentally where your argument falls down is where the other teams standout players have come from.
Tom Bradshaw - 50k from Shrewsbury when they were relegated to League 2 in 2014.
Bradley Dack - homegrown player for Gillingham
Romaine Sawyers -signed on a free having been released from West Brom
Lucas Akins - signed from Stevenage
It's amazing what you can get in the pound shop if you do a little research.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
The bottom line is.... The owners are ultimately responsible for the running of the Club... You wouldn't employ "Jack the Ripper" to manage a Brothel... or "The Roly Polys to run Weight Watchers. Italiahorse, just like yourself is entitled to his opinion.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Totally agree with Italiahorse on this one. As you say Tm has been given a workable budget. Both Burton and Walsall were lucky to have players who want to play for each other and the Club. This shower of prima donna's(Murphy) hits a good shot and stands there for 5 mins admiring it. Ricketts shouldn't even be playing "Walk Football" Cole, been over the hill for quite a few years now(Should be carrying a oxygen tank and mask on the pitch with him) As for Fleck.. The most overrated player at the Club. Hit a 60 yards pass perfectly, then follows it up with 5 more 60 yarders that couldn't hit a barn door. I think Arma has been played way out of position for at least 3 months Maddison hasn't wanted to know since his "Big signing to Norwich"... Martin, Stokes, Vincelot, and RCC are the only ones that seem to care about the Club. Very sad situation
So you agree with Italia - but your following rationale pretty much contradicts it
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
In fairness, all of those teams were relatively settled, Gillingham finished last season well, Walsall weren't bad either. Burton on the crest of a promotion wave with a very settled side. We came from a relegation battle with a completely rebuilt side which then had a number of injury problems, we should see what happens next season.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Totally agree with Italiahorse on this one. As you say Tm has been given a workable budget. Both Burton and Walsall were lucky to have players who want to play for each other and the Club. This shower of prima donna's(Murphy) hits a good shot and stands there for 5 mins admiring it. Ricketts shouldn't even be playing "Walk Football" Cole, been over the hill for quite a few years now(Should be carrying a oxygen tank and mask on the pitch with him) As for Fleck.. The most overrated player at the Club. Hit a 60 yards pass perfectly, then follows it up with 5 more 60 yarders that couldn't hit a barn door. I think Arma has been played way out of position for at least 3 months Maddison hasn't wanted to know since his "Big signing to Norwich"... Martin, Stokes, Vincelot, and RCC are the only ones that seem to care about the Club. Very sad situation
Have you started going to matches again now?
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Seems TM should have opened his eyes to this one then
To be fair to TM I think he went to Walsall when Elvis was in charge
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I accept that FP, but I still maintain tbr budget isnt the problem, and sisu cannot be blamed for the last 22 game debarcle. Also the similarities with what happened under Mowbray are alarming.
With teams who have recently been in the Prem dropping into league one, its unrealistic for Italia to suggest that Mowbray should and needs be given a top 2 budget next year in order to stop the season dropping off as it has done.
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Nick
Administrator
Mowbray says it is, else he wouldn't have signed
Have we got a lower budget than Colchester or Fleetwood who both technically out did us
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Burton are a team on the march, that happens from time to time and it's not always down to budget. Owners, managers (much to my suprise with Clough) and players have all been the right fit at the right time.
Dean Smith took years to get Walsall where they are on the budget available. He was given that time, something many on here don't want to give TM.
If a team has a mid table budget and had managed to spend over half the season in the top 6 I would say that the manager has made a good fist of it. Wouldn't you?
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Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
And didn't we have a top 6 budget as well?
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
No-one will have been able to compete with Wigans budget - that aside I bet our players budget is comfortable inside the top 6.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with you in essence - but TM had a budget much better than 'mid-table' and he has pretty much spent it as he wishes. To get us in such a good position and let it slide is shocking. TM is responsible, but so is his playing squad as well, and I don't think that sacking him is going to be of any benefit to the club. As you said it's worth taking the time to develop a settled and progressive squad.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
So you agree with Italia - but your following rationale pretty much contradicts it
I suggest you read ALL of Italia's post first before jumping to conclusions mate. Loans, has beens and youngsters. SISU dropped the "Biggest Bo**ck of all by selling Maddison mid season when they should have waited till the end. This has deffinately upset his game no matter how much he says it won't. TM has got a little gem in Jobi Jones. A cracking winger with talent oozing everywhere. How long will it be before SISU sell him? I'll give it to the first transfer window next season
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Again it's how you look at it.
Sisu are working within budget and the budget is circa 8th for this league.
In theory they are therefore planning to finish 8th. Yes with a bit of luck/skill, as other teams people have quoted, you can do better (or worse).
But the underlining plan is to finish 8th. You can't 'expect' to give a manager a budget for 8th and then 'expect' promotion.
To plan for a promotion you need to finance it. Sisu, won't so people should not 'expect' it.
As next seasons budget will be the same as this seasons we can again expect to finish mid table again.
I therefore conclude that it 'is' Sisu's fault because they will not 'finance' promotion.
Sisu are working within budget and the budget is circa 8th for this league.
In theory they are therefore planning to finish 8th. Yes with a bit of luck/skill, as other teams people have quoted, you can do better (or worse).
But the underlining plan is to finish 8th. You can't 'expect' to give a manager a budget for 8th and then 'expect' promotion.
To plan for a promotion you need to finance it. Sisu, won't so people should not 'expect' it.
As next seasons budget will be the same as this seasons we can again expect to finish mid table again.
I therefore conclude that it 'is' Sisu's fault because they will not 'finance' promotion.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Our budget is 8th? And where do you get that from?
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
I suggest you read ALL of Italia's post first before jumping to conclusions mate. Loans, has beens and youngsters. SISU dropped the "Biggest Bo**ck of all by selling Maddison mid season when they should have waited till the end. This has deffinately upset his game no matter how much he says it won't. TM has got a little gem in Jobi Jones. A cracking winger with talent oozing everywhere. How long will it be before SISU sell him? I'll give it to the first transfer window next season
Won't we have to buy him first?
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I suggest you read ALL of Italia's post first before jumping to conclusions mate. Loans, has beens and youngsters. SISU dropped the "Biggest Bo**ck of all by selling Maddison mid season when they should have waited till the end. This has deffinately upset his game no matter how much he says it won't. TM has got a little gem in Jobi Jones. A cracking winger with talent oozing everywhere. How long will it be before SISU sell him? I'll give it to the first transfer window next season
Loans, has-beens and youngsters all picked by TM. The Maddison sale is a misnomer. The best run of the season co-incided with him missing the majority of it.
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
But you don't want us in debt either. You can't have it all ways. You can't just buy success. We beat a lot of good teams this season. Was that because of sisu? If things are well its cos of anyone but sisu. If things are bad it's all sisus fault. Laughable.
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
Said it the other day. Delle ali was sold mid season. Mk still went up. Case closed
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
I think(but not certain) we did.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What you also need to remember is that not all that budget was spent on players, some was spent on Ryton, the team bus, backroom staff including setting up a scouting network that the club didn't have.
It's to easy to say his budget was X and Walsall's etc. budget was V therefore we should be doing better than them. TM had to stretch his budget further than the first team. Did Walsall etc.? I doubt it and if they did I doubt it even more that they had to stretch it to as many area's of the club as TM did. He wasn't rebuilding a team, he was rebuilding a club from the foundations up and that's a far bigger task by any stretch of the imagination. For all you know his actual available budget for players might actually be less than mid table not better than the mid table you have assumed it to be.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Was going to make the same point myself. Southend and Rochdale also haven't had 3 managers in 4 seasons i believe. Which brings you back to being settled teams again.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Nah...hes on a an emergency loan mate....we've agreed "in principle" to make the deal permanent in the summer....
...but don't hold your breath....we'll probably fuck that up too...
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
To be honest I don't know but that seems to be the figure placed up on here on several occasions.
If people can use it for there reasoning then I will also use it.
Does anybody know ?
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
To answer the OP's question, I'm pretty sure this must be the reason:
They made a mistake buying CCFC. They have poured money in and wanted to see an extraordinary return. That isn't happening.
They tried a quick run for promotion from the Championship but as it didn't work immediately they gave up because they didn't want to spend any more money.
They then tried to buy the Ricoh for a song. That failed too.
Now they are trying lawsuits to get compensation from anyone they can because their Ricoh plan didn't work.
In the meantime, they have reduced spending on the club which reportedly is now self-sufficient: so although they are owed a lot of investment and want more back, at least they are not losing any more. So now they are playing for time; waiting for the next opportunity to cash in. They have no motivation to sell as that would crystalise a loss and time is a positive motivation to stay.
They made a mistake buying CCFC. They have poured money in and wanted to see an extraordinary return. That isn't happening.
They tried a quick run for promotion from the Championship but as it didn't work immediately they gave up because they didn't want to spend any more money.
They then tried to buy the Ricoh for a song. That failed too.
Now they are trying lawsuits to get compensation from anyone they can because their Ricoh plan didn't work.
In the meantime, they have reduced spending on the club which reportedly is now self-sufficient: so although they are owed a lot of investment and want more back, at least they are not losing any more. So now they are playing for time; waiting for the next opportunity to cash in. They have no motivation to sell as that would crystalise a loss and time is a positive motivation to stay.
Nick
Administrator
People act as if Madison was messi before he was sold, not much has changed to be honest. Just now he has been sold more people notice his diving.I suggest you read ALL of Italia's post first before jumping to conclusions mate. Loans, has beens and youngsters. SISU dropped the "Biggest Bo**ck of all by selling Maddison mid season when they should have waited till the end. This has deffinately upset his game no matter how much he says it won't. TM has got a little gem in Jobi Jones. A cracking winger with talent oozing everywhere. How long will it be before SISU sell him? I'll give it to the first transfer window next season
Nick
Administrator
We have haven't we?
stupot07
Well-Known Member
No, the deal is only agreed in principle for the summer, but I guess its up to us or Jones to pull out of that deal.
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Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Andddd where did you get that from? ...... Only fair to ask that question, seeing as you've questioned Italia's 8th best budget
Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
Spot on! It's a question of how much is available for the first team? Given our owners "spin" on almost every issue & the costs of TF, paying off previous managers, etc. I would be careful in deducing that TM's budget was suitable, especially when we consider the total lack of infrastructure at the club when he took over.