covcity4life
Well-Known Member
stop calling people with opposing views deluded then?
you have been taught a valuable lesson today...you're welcome.
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Andy Thorn talks utter bollox (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter CUS Wyken
- Start date
stop calling people with opposing views deluded then?
you have been taught a valuable lesson today...you're welcome.
Juice Terry
Member
I agree, bring back Ady Boothroyd, best manager the club has ever had.
He wouldn't persist with some of these piss poor kids either.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
yeh not playing gardner at tip is hard to understand
Otis
Well-Known Member
Juice Terry
Member
No need to be funny, mate.
One of these so called 'starlets' is named after a woman ffs.
One of these so called 'starlets' is named after a woman ffs.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Notorious Bigi?
hahahahahahaha!!!! you wum!
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Now this thread makes me laugh. Why?
Loads of you are saying get rid of AT and get Black back. Fair enough, I suppose. Now, if SISU had got rid of AT at the end of last season then the forum would be awash with "Bloody SISU bastards sacked our best manager since Black, etc etc", if we'd been in our current position with a new manager. Unfortunately for AT he got the job full-time. The same thing could easily have happened to Eric Black but luckily for him he got the push which is why he's seen as some kind of God.
Luck of the draw, I guess. I like AT and I hope he can turn it round.
Loads of you are saying get rid of AT and get Black back. Fair enough, I suppose. Now, if SISU had got rid of AT at the end of last season then the forum would be awash with "Bloody SISU bastards sacked our best manager since Black, etc etc", if we'd been in our current position with a new manager. Unfortunately for AT he got the job full-time. The same thing could easily have happened to Eric Black but luckily for him he got the push which is why he's seen as some kind of God.
Luck of the draw, I guess. I like AT and I hope he can turn it round.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
yeh ive never understood how eric black was some sort of messiah to city fans
I agree. I like his football philosophy, it's just a shame the tools at his disposal are letting him down. I don't mean the kids, I'm thinking the likes of sheff, bell, baker, clingan and sicknotes mcpake and deegan
he made Bjarni Gudjohnsen look like Messi
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Ah, that's the problem with this forum. There are too many who like to jump on other forum members and inform them that they are wrong for having an opinion. That's very dangerous.
My opinion is that AT is still a good manager and I reckon he can get us out of this and take us up the table. Could I be wrong? Yep, just my opinion though. I suppose a poster such as yourself will no doubt quote it back to me in the not too distant future. :thinking about:
My opinion is that AT is still a good manager and I reckon he can get us out of this and take us up the table. Could I be wrong? Yep, just my opinion though. I suppose a poster such as yourself will no doubt quote it back to me in the not too distant future. :thinking about:
so we have established you cant rate players properly
so we cant really respect your opinion when you say no manager could do better with this squad.
no hard feelings fella
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
i was taking the piss because NLHWC called people who thought another manager could do better "deluded" , yet then complained when people disagreed with his "opinion" on players
this is a forum,you need to debate,dont shoot down others and then complain when someone does it to you.
next time read the thread properly please kiddo
p.s i havnt given up on thorn either
Otis
Well-Known Member
Fully understand the backing of Thorn and supporting him, but on what basis do you think he is a good manager? Doesn't make any sense. We expected it to be a relegation struggle and possibly be in the bottom 3 and we are. We were expecting that anyway, so how on earth does that make Thorn a good manager? Don't get it. We expected bottom 3 and are bottom 3.
Back him by all means but I simply cannot find any reason whatsoever for saying he is a good manager. If he was good we would be doing a little better than expected surely.
Unless of course you were expecting less than 2 wins from 19 games.
What i don’t get is, all these fans who think Thorn is a good manager will never answer me a simple question. Which is... What good has he done since he’s been in charge?
Yes the diamond was working at first (Honeymoon period) but teams now know our game. He has not changed anything since and that’s our and his downfall.
When was the last time he made changes tactically or player change which affected a match in positive way?
Many of his team selections, tactics and substitutions are mind boggling.
It’s all good and well saying he’s a good manager but what has he done to prove this? Team morale is at a low. His record speaks for itself. A win in every 6 games and going by this season form a win every 9 games.
We have become an easy fixture for teams who look at us as a gimmie for 3 points. He needs to install a never die attitude.
Yes the diamond was working at first (Honeymoon period) but teams now know our game. He has not changed anything since and that’s our and his downfall.
When was the last time he made changes tactically or player change which affected a match in positive way?
Many of his team selections, tactics and substitutions are mind boggling.
It’s all good and well saying he’s a good manager but what has he done to prove this? Team morale is at a low. His record speaks for itself. A win in every 6 games and going by this season form a win every 9 games.
We have become an easy fixture for teams who look at us as a gimmie for 3 points. He needs to install a never die attitude.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I guess I fall into the "these fans" category.
I think AT proved last season that when he has a decent squad he can and did get the team playing good football. I don't recall too many complaints on here at the time...
This season I think the problem is AT has got a pretty poor team, with a few exceptions and that's why I don't think AT has become a "bad" manager this season.
I back him because I know he could do alright given a few additions which is what I'm hoping for in January. If not and he gets the push then I seriously doubt any other manager, whether it be Carsley (oh, puullleaaase!) or any other experienced head could make anything out of the team we have.
Just my opinion, of course.
I think AT proved last season that when he has a decent squad he can and did get the team playing good football. I don't recall too many complaints on here at the time...
This season I think the problem is AT has got a pretty poor team, with a few exceptions and that's why I don't think AT has become a "bad" manager this season.
I back him because I know he could do alright given a few additions which is what I'm hoping for in January. If not and he gets the push then I seriously doubt any other manager, whether it be Carsley (oh, puullleaaase!) or any other experienced head could make anything out of the team we have.
Just my opinion, of course.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Because...
1. the average points per game went from 1.2 under McAllister to 1.6 under Black
2. the league win percentage went from 26% under McAllister to 50% under Black
3. the average goals scored per game went from 1.1 to 1.88
4. we scored three goals or more in a third of all Black's games
5. the average point total under Black is playoff calibre the majority of years
6. the average goal difference would have resulted in +33 over the course of a season
And he did all this with a less-than-stellar squad playing some really exciting football. I wouldn't bet on us finding another manager who has that kind of impact on the side anytime soon.
I can understand the 'new manager effect', but this wasn't merely scraping out a few extra initial wins because of added gut-busting effort to impress the new gaffer. Make no mistake about it - it was a total turnaround over a period of 18 league games, and we were really giving a hiding to other teams.
We go from manager to manager looking for that magic touch, and when we finally found the guy he was sacked for being 'inconsistent'. We do need to move on from Black, but it's a huge mistake to dismiss what he achieved and what we lost.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
He only had a very short tenure though didn't he?
It's a case of "what if" for me.
It's a case of "what if" for me.
He got the team playing during his honeymoon period last season, of course the players helped because they suited the diamond, the current crop don't suit it. Thats the problem. Its all good and well living on last season 6 - 8 games but when it matters i.e now, he does not have a clue.
He hasn't done anything to give me confidence this season.
Like i said, remind me what good Thorn has done this season Torch? 19 games in. Much longer period then last season.
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covcity4life
Well-Known Member
im not saying it wasnt a mistake to sack him dont get me wrong,just saying its not definite he would have kept that up either,id have loved to have found out though
Colonel Mustard
New Member
A short tenure, yes, but it was enough for me to believe he was the real deal. As I say, I can understand the extra huff-and-puff resulting in a few more positive results when a new manager takes control, but it's rare that you see such a complete turnaround over a period as long as 18 games. It was free-flowing attacking football that reaped huge dividends; the kind of football we have not seen since.
Let's not forget that he was sacked after winning 5-2 away from home. It was a fitting bookmark considering he started with a 6-1 win at Walsall. There's nothing to suggest that Black's run was flukey or temporary. It was terrific, cavalier football.
Let's not forget that he was sacked after winning 5-2 away from home. It was a fitting bookmark considering he started with a 6-1 win at Walsall. There's nothing to suggest that Black's run was flukey or temporary. It was terrific, cavalier football.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Like I said it's my opinion that he would turn it round. That doesn't mean to say he will and that he hasn't made mistakes.
Not long ago it was SISU getting the flack. AT was OK because it was their fault he had such a poor squad. Some have realised it's now easier to turn their anger on AT rather than SISU and this is what I think the problem is at the moment.
Personally, if AT had some decent players he'd be a good manager playing good football. OK, that's not the case.
Sack him then, see what we get.
Not long ago it was SISU getting the flack. AT was OK because it was their fault he had such a poor squad. Some have realised it's now easier to turn their anger on AT rather than SISU and this is what I think the problem is at the moment.
Personally, if AT had some decent players he'd be a good manager playing good football. OK, that's not the case.
Sack him then, see what we get.
Colonel Mustard
New Member
Sure. I'm just setting out why he was considered 'the messiah' - the one we're still sadly searching for. As for whether he would have continued it, I see no reason why not, because Black's method was do-or-die; there were a lot of bad losses that measured up to the wins. There was a consistency to his inconsistency...there were no lingering hopes concerning a long-stagnant side that maaaay get good.
Either way, I'm not really interested in hypotheticals...just results. Black's record speaks for itself, as does AT's. It was wrong to sack Black, and it would be wrong not to sack AT.
Otis
Well-Known Member
But I would say winning scoring 3 goals (once), 4 goals (3 times), 5 goals (once) and 6 goals (once) points to more than just a honeymoon period. Fact was City fans were saying our players were not good enough and we had a very poor team. We were a team of no-hopers.
Do you think any other manager could come in and have such a honeymoon period? We weren't just beating some teams, we were thrashing them out of sight.
Do you think any other manager could come in and have such a honeymoon period? We weren't just beating some teams, we were thrashing them out of sight.
Thats the whole point tho. We could all be good managers with better players. What makes a manager a decent manager is working with what you have at your disposal. Thorn can't get the best out of this crop of players so in my eyes it means he can't manage them in the best possible way then he shouldn't be in charge of them.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Ok, CUS. As I said sack him. What would happen then? Give it to Carsley? Or the tea lady?
I've no doubt the fans will get their way in the end and Thorn will be sacked. I just hope they are happy with what they get and that it makes a difference.
I've no doubt the fans will get their way in the end and Thorn will be sacked. I just hope they are happy with what they get and that it makes a difference.
Ive said it before Sean O'Driscoll. He always had the tightest budgets in the Championship yet worked miracles and he managed to keep them in th League and also got Donny promotion so he knows what it takes once we get relegated. Do it now and he can set the foundations for next season.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Really? What would that be, then? I'm pretty confident that I don't have anything to learn from you.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
Really? I thought I said that "people who think that we are only missing King are deluded". Which I still think. Very deluded
Equally, I didn't get upset when people disagreed with my opinion of players. I still have hope for Deegan, but agree he's been crap since the Blackpool game. I got "upset" at people implying I said something I didn't, which was pretty laughable, really. I'm hardly weeping as I type