skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Don't delete the article, simply add a correction / amendment. Like I've been saying all along and you're so abrasive to clarity is needed. Contradictions aren't helping.
Formal Planning Objection from CCFC (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Orca
- Start date
Don't delete the article, simply add a correction / amendment. Like I've been saying all along and you're so abrasive to clarity is needed. Contradictions aren't helping.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Oh ffs. No one believes we're ever going to build a fucking stadium so why do they believe they are going to move the academy. Its all horse shit that csf and wasps are using to help their PR. Its working a treat because mugs are buying it.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It's not about what we believe, it's about duplicity and the lack of credibility it gives to not only "we are moving on" but also to "we want a long term commitment". The duplicity makes neither believable.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Anderson has gone on record saying we want to stay at the higgs long term. Whilst we keep going around in circles on this wasps and csf will be happy as the attention is well away from them.
They are all a bunch of c-units including sisu.
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Nick
Administrator
So we are going to take a statement from over a year ago to show that we don't really want commitment because what is said now is different.
Meanwhile we ignore that csf said it wouldn't be possible to have the academy there not so long ago, then people got a bit of anger towards them (including you) so they do a bit of damage limitation and people swallow it.
Hasn't Anderson pretty much said since he came in he wanted long term at the higgs and stopped ruling out things at the ricoh? Almost like he was brought in to go against previous stuff?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
They can't formally say they are not considering it for obvious reasons.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Which are?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Orca
Well-Known Member
No Nick, deleting the article doesn't make the sham they've created go away. We've stated and still publicly declare on the official website that we're building an integrated first team and Cat 1 Academy facility. We've issued a contradictory statement stating we're staying at the Higgs long term. A sensible person would publicly withdraw one before declaring the other.
We've stated we're building our own stadium this year, not the Highfield 2 nonsense, the rebuild of the Butts. At the same time this hit the press, we're negotiating, but failing, to get a new long term deal at the Ricoh due to 'noise'.
Someone else used the word 'duplicity' and that for me is the perfect word. There are vocal people on here who claim these things are just being used by Wasps/CSF/CCC as PR, but I've not seen any of these parties make a big play about any of these things. The people who are vocal about the duplicity tend to be fans like me, who hate all this shit and long for a time when I could moan about Strachan's randomiser team selections or how shit the purple kit was (even though I wore it in Majorca on my holidays).
We have been run for years by idiots and not many on here would disagree with that. I do disagree with the conspiracy theories that there's some plan by CCC to rid the city of it's football team, but I understand that type of person exists. I've grown tired of arguing with said people.
I've learned plenty being on this site and I hope to remain objective enough to be educated further. However, I can't take a view that puts the reason we find our football club in such a parlous state is because of the Council, Wasps or the new 'enemy', CSF. The statements, the bluster, the 'we batter people in court' mentality existed right from the outset. SISU came in and promised a lot and required all of our shares to do it. Granted, they inherited a financial basket case, but other than one or two successful players and our current manager, I'd struggle to name many things SISU have done right.
Nick
Administrator
Why would they publically withdraw a statement from 18 months or so ago?
Anything to do with CA offering to have the first team at the Higgs as well as the academy?
You didn't see Wasps / CFC etc mention things for PR? Apart from every time they seem to make a statement they refer to them?
It is weird how people focus on that bit but you can't "take a view" that the council could have some blame, have you missed the conditions of the Wasps sale? How are they working out by the way?
Surely it isn't actually "duplicity" if 18 months ago they said the above, and now they are saying they want to stay at the higgs long term? Surely it is a good thing they are now saying they want to stay at the Higgs?
PS. at no point in that article does it say "we" are building anything. It mentions a "vision" and says we would use a facility designed and built. It doesn't say we are building anything. Then CA saying we would have the first team at the Higgs kind of then backs up a lot of the other stuff in there doesn't it?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Some people really can't bring themselves to criticize our owners can they. Having a statement on your website stating one thing and having the opposite statement on something as important as this planning objection makes neither credible. It needs addressing if the objection is to be taken seriously. It hampers the objection. It makes the objection look like nothing more than sour grapes.
Nick
Administrator
Wheres it the opposite?
I said at the start the objection probably wouldn't make much difference even if taken seriously, so I am not saying it is a deal breaker or a smoking gun.
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/could-those-attending-wasps-games.65552/
Nice to see the PR did it's job
I said at the start the objection probably wouldn't make much difference even if taken seriously, so I am not saying it is a deal breaker or a smoking gun.
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/could-those-attending-wasps-games.65552/
Nice to see the PR did it's job
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Orca
Well-Known Member
Because it was bullshit then, it's bullshit now and it's contradictory to what has just been publicly stated. Even Kieran Crowley admitted it - BUT IT'S STILL THERE!!!!
Who the fuck's going to build that for them? There's no room for the 1st team at the Higgs and certainly no willingness from CSF to work with them. Also, in the months since January 2015, exactly what did CCFC do to make any of this fanciful vision happen? You should know the answer to that.
You still can't see the glaring dichotomy here Nick and I'm about done with this place already.
Nick
Administrator
"done with this place" ? Why?
You said that article said they were going to build something. It says it was their vision, it doesn't say "we are building an academy" does it?
If anything, reading it back matches up what CA is now trying to push:
Which bits are massively contradictory? Reading it back, it seems less than I actually thought it would be.
Or are people just listening to wasps and CSF give that article as their reasons for "moving on" and running with it?
Meanwhile Wasps and CSF piss themselves that a poster who originally tried to persuade people to do a boycott of them is actually using their arguments on a CCFC forum...
Meanwhile, the council put conditions on a sale in black and white that it must not damage CCFC (and CRFC) that just gets swept away. No blame in CCC's court.
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Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Since the story first broke concerning Wasps and the acadamy, I've been convinced
SISU don't want it and see the situation as an ideal opportunity to drop it and blame
others.
Nothing I've heard, seen or read since inc the lodging of this formal planning objection,
has changed my mind.
Just CA going through the necessary motions. IMHO
SISU don't want it and see the situation as an ideal opportunity to drop it and blame
others.
Nothing I've heard, seen or read since inc the lodging of this formal planning objection,
has changed my mind.
Just CA going through the necessary motions. IMHO
Nick
Administrator
Since the story first broke concerning Wasps and the acadamy, I've been convinced
SISU don't want it and see the situation as an ideal opportunity to drop it and blame
others.
Nothing I've heard, seen or read since inc the lodging of this formal planning objection,
has changed my mind.
Just CA going through the necessary motions. IMHO
It could well be, but then surely Wasps / CSF could blow CA away and get the perfect "get out of jail free card" by putting this fantastic offer in writing. They put the academy situation on a plate and then if CCFC turn it down when it is there in black and white it is obvious isn't it?
It was CSF / Wasps who said it wouldn't be possible when the news first broke wasn't it? CA is leaving himself wide open with a huge bluff by demanding everything in writing isn't he if they don't actually want it? His pants will be well and truly down and they will have gone in dry.
(This isn't me saying you are wrong as I don't know, just some things don't add up with that theory).
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Because they don't need a "get out of jail card" it's us who need help, I think they know
As well as we do that SISU don't want it and are reluctant to get dragged into one of
Their silly games.
The irony is we will probably end up in court ( fucking up Ricoh talks once and for all)
Over something the club were desperate to stop funding anyway.
Nick
Administrator
So why are they so bothered about public opinion of them? Have a look at the thread on here saying Boycott them. If there was pressure on Wasps they would shit themselves.
You are right, they probably don't need a get out of jail card as they can do whatever they want and just say "it is SISU's fault" and everybody backs off and forgets about them.
Has it been said they were desperate to get rid of the academy?
Wasps or csf said at the start of it that it wouldn't be possible to have the academy there with all of the stuff going on. It went from that, to the trust going off like wasps have saved the world because they had a whisper in their ear.
I just can't believe so many fall for it. It's like back in the day when somebody would come on here solely to start rumours about people at the club...
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Brylowes
Well-Known Member
The fact the rental deal runs out in a year, why let it run down so much, they say
It costs 1.2 m per year to fund (at least) of which 1/2 m is in the form of a grant.
Why would SISU who 'openly admit " the club needs to be financially independent
Of the owners be content to pay 3/4 m per year when they can still run the club
Without it.
Nick
Administrator
So they don't want the academy because they put money into the club last season?
How long was this agreement? Hasn't ca said since he first came he wanted to make it long term there?
It could well be they want to close it down, but some things just don't add up for me with that. The main ones being him asking for everything in writing and the shocking attempt to deflect any blame...
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
Thats not what i said, it costs them about 700.000 k per year to fund the academy, they can
Still run the club without it whilst making a huge saving, that's all it comes down to for me.
The clubs future is of no concern to them, it's all about the here and now, they know the loss
Of the academy will be unpopular among supporters which is why this situation has played
Into their hands.
Since the academy story broke there's been no sense of urgency, no real stomach for a fight,
Fans I think can sence it,hence the "damp squib" of a petition.
Just another slice off our ever shrinking football club.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Sorry I don't get what you are saying?
singers_pore
Well-Known Member
A "vision" - Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Are there no depths to which you will sink in order to justify, retroactively, the ludicrous and contradictory statements made by SISU?
Nick
Administrator
How have I justified it? I just pointed out it didn't say "we are building an academy". It is probably also telling the fact I wrote it as "vision"...A "vision" - Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Are there no depths to which you will sink in order to justify, retroactively, the ludicrous and contradictory statements made by SISU?
CSF need a long term tenant, clearly that is the business model & that was the basis for the original build of Higgs.
We (Ccfc) wouldn't commit so why we do expect CSF to hang about & play sisu games of bluff/counter bluff. We actually left once before & that must have have a left huge hole in the Higgs budget as I suspect the tenancy is key to income.
CSF have a moody tenant with a terrible reputation, sisu do not act with integrity, they are a ruthless business, nothing illegal but certainly not an ideal partner/tenant. CSF did what I would do, rather than play time consuming games with a moody tenant they simply found a new tenant.
If I had a house and the tenant wasn't prepared to commit to another tenancy I would find a.n.other ......I wouldn't get involved in trading.
During their time in Coventry if sisu had acted with integrity & you could trust their handshake I suspect the Higgs 'problem' wouldn't have arisen. Unfortunately that isn't the case & other organisations are going to look at events around the Ricoh, non paying of rent, litigation etc & think I'd rather not do business.....I can't blame them.
The real tradegy is to the young footballers of Coventry, they are the collateral damage & that could have devastating effects on our future. If i had a lad who was good & I had choice of Coventry, Birmingham WBA, Leicester I know where I wouldn't choose. Maybe that is already happening.
The solution is for us to do the right thing & re-build our reputation. To once again become an organisation that others trust & will do business with. Its still possible but not unless the current incumbents of our club change style, communication & working manner. There have recent personnel & each seems brings a new mantra/style, Waggot clearly had the best skills of negotiation, diplomacy & tact. Would the Higgs situation be where it was if Waggot was still here .... I suspect not. Waggot was a guy who met others for an informal beer and built relationships, I don't remember him making threats/aggressive statements via the press. Waggot had a community background & appeared to understand the need to build working relationships with the community ....... I think the club miss his skills & outlook.
The 'blame game' is often futile & achieves very little but as the majority of this thread is trying to just that my suggestion is we look in the mirror............
Fingers crossed the children learn to play nicely in the future & work together for the community of Coventry but I won't be holding my breath .......does Waggott have a brother????
We (Ccfc) wouldn't commit so why we do expect CSF to hang about & play sisu games of bluff/counter bluff. We actually left once before & that must have have a left huge hole in the Higgs budget as I suspect the tenancy is key to income.
CSF have a moody tenant with a terrible reputation, sisu do not act with integrity, they are a ruthless business, nothing illegal but certainly not an ideal partner/tenant. CSF did what I would do, rather than play time consuming games with a moody tenant they simply found a new tenant.
If I had a house and the tenant wasn't prepared to commit to another tenancy I would find a.n.other ......I wouldn't get involved in trading.
During their time in Coventry if sisu had acted with integrity & you could trust their handshake I suspect the Higgs 'problem' wouldn't have arisen. Unfortunately that isn't the case & other organisations are going to look at events around the Ricoh, non paying of rent, litigation etc & think I'd rather not do business.....I can't blame them.
The real tradegy is to the young footballers of Coventry, they are the collateral damage & that could have devastating effects on our future. If i had a lad who was good & I had choice of Coventry, Birmingham WBA, Leicester I know where I wouldn't choose. Maybe that is already happening.
The solution is for us to do the right thing & re-build our reputation. To once again become an organisation that others trust & will do business with. Its still possible but not unless the current incumbents of our club change style, communication & working manner. There have recent personnel & each seems brings a new mantra/style, Waggot clearly had the best skills of negotiation, diplomacy & tact. Would the Higgs situation be where it was if Waggot was still here .... I suspect not. Waggot was a guy who met others for an informal beer and built relationships, I don't remember him making threats/aggressive statements via the press. Waggot had a community background & appeared to understand the need to build working relationships with the community ....... I think the club miss his skills & outlook.
The 'blame game' is often futile & achieves very little but as the majority of this thread is trying to just that my suggestion is we look in the mirror............
Fingers crossed the children learn to play nicely in the future & work together for the community of Coventry but I won't be holding my breath .......does Waggott have a brother????
Why do we and SISU expect someone else to provide the basic facilities a football club needs. Why not just build our own academy facility? You never know if they did a proper job we could receive revenue from it 365 days per year and put the revenue towards the playing budget instead of losing players to teams like Bradford and Sheff U.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
The fruits of the Academy mature over a long period, years even a decade.
SISU are a short term hedge fund, they've already been forced to hold on to the club longer than they would wish.
It would suit them well to cut the Academy out of their plans to reduce the time over which they need to plan.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Can't you admit it is bullshit.
Nick
Administrator
Can't see where I've said I think it's amazing and fully believe it.
Just that it didn't say we would build one and does match him saying he wants to move the first team there. I haven't said that's viable either.
But still, wasps and csf have used that article, good distraction to do whatever the hell they want isn't it?
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
So say you don't believe it.
Orca
Well-Known Member
Seeing people continually defend the indefensible is disheartening
"a facility that is designed and built to facilitate and future proof a Category One status" is a line from the article. Who's designing it and who's building it if not CCFC?
If you recall, I started a thread about getting the Local Government Ombudsman involved because the Council are not sticking to what they agreed. You pointed me at a thread where you said it had been discussed before but it was just a load of bickering. If you really think the Council are at fault, you have to prove maladministration and a personal impact on you (or as I suggested, the SBT). As far as I can work out, you're happy to blame them but have taken no steps to hold them to account.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
The reason they are not going to build one is money even London Wasps aren't building it from scratch and for the bits they need money for want sponsorship.
Nick
Administrator
I agree, the way people go on is tiring. The way people gargle everything wasps and csf say does is draining. Especially how they use that article that people obsess over to justify things and people go mad for it. Even though they said themselves the academy probably won't be possible there.
We even had people defending wasps people coming on here and spouting their rubbish, it is tiring.
You said it said we were building one, it didn't say that. That's all I said. I haven't defended it have I? I also pointed out it matches with ca moving the first team.
What's going to happen about the conditions when wasps moved? The person who wrote it gets put in front of the ethics committee? We know what happens there. What do you want me to do, write a letter of complaint that will get thrown away and ignored?
I made a thread to point it out, you can see what happened for yourself. People weren't interested... They are too busy shouting at the club and owners and letting everybody else do what they want.
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