italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Unless Sisu gift money into the club.
Would you say that gifting £1M to increase the player budget might might reap returns should we get to the Championship ?
Recruitment screwed up (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter Captain Dart
- Start date
Unless Sisu gift money into the club.
Would you say that gifting £1M to increase the player budget might might reap returns should we get to the Championship ?
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
So we're basically looking to the foreign out of contract players.
Alright then say he spent all the money and got us a bang average team for league 1, and somehow he then transforms this team of mediocrity into a promotion challenging side and we go up (never going to happen). We're now sat in the championship with a load of players on the books that won't be able to cut it and with 1 or 2 years left on their contracts.
SISU funded the wrong managers early on and now we've finally got a decent one and he's got no money to work with.
SISU funded the wrong managers early on and now we've finally got a decent one and he's got no money to work with.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
I think I disagree somewhat.
This battle is not with SISU. We have in no uncertain terms, a good enough league one budget.
Should we get promotion, the players would be good enough to compete at high league 1/low championship standard, so we could add and build to what we had should it happen and they'd be good enough. The budget would actually allow for a strong league 1 squad this season anyway, but he fucked it up.
Now we're left with a low league 1 standard team and the academy filling in.
I know which I would have preferred. The original plan was unrealistic anyway.
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
You're doing it again, pathetic attempt to divert the thread. No-one (Grendel aside) is talking about the size of the budget compared to the rest of the division here. Mowbray intimates, in the very quote I copied and you replied to, that he does still have a pot to spend. This is about his recruitment strategy and the waiting game Mowbray decided to play.
Edit: Sorry if I sound like a grumpy git but the CT have finally put out a CCFC article worthy of the name which has provoked some good football related debate. You've got plenty of other threads to promote your agenda on but this place is desperate for a decent footy thread.
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Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
No, because we wouldn't get to the championship.
As has probably proved this transfer window, I don't think Mowbray could be trusted to get the best out of any extra funds.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
You missed out that no one else wants.
Bruce the Boot
Well-Known Member
I think he s given up , He wont spend the money he has , He s being honourable not lumbering the club , He ll be off soon , Oh yes recruitment was a shambles 
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
He's not a politician though. He's a football manager in the last year of his contract with everything to gain and nothing to lose if his budget has been cut.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
With Mowbray as manager no. "Look what I've bought - the next Rueben lameries" oh and I've given Ricketts a 3 year deal"
Or "I couldn't spend the money. As I had this money I thought that I could punch above my weight and I had a sniff Vardy may come. He's not and now it's a bit late. No problem though - not only have a given you Bigi back I'm in touch with Cody and even Stephen Wright fancies a wing back job"
In TM we trust.
skybluebeduff
Well-Known Member
Bullshit, when they signed people were asking why we were signing untested players, we got lucky that they turned out decent for half a season!!
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
But it's related.
If you can't get the players you want its almost certainly down to money and hence the reference to the budget.
If you can't be certain what the player budget is and how it compares to other teams you can't argue whether the position we finish in is satisfactory or not.
You certainly will find it difficult to assign blame on recruitment without knowing all the facts.
For all we know Mowbray may be achieving what Sisu want even with the players we have already i.e. survival in Division 1.
We can be certain however that Sisu aspirations for this club does not match the fans aspirations..
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
That sums it up. We got lucky by obtaining players that were better than their cost.
Mowbray has tried again this year but it sounds as he has not got the players he wants on the budget available.
We need to wait and see whether the players he has got are again better than their cost. Early indications are there not.
Nick
Administrator
Yes, all managers have to work within a budget. He could have said he wanted Messi and people would be moaning we didn't give him the money.
It shows the targets are too high, so they want more money.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
but that's not what this thread is about is it?
Nathccfc
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's just this year that the recruitment has been poor, it's been a trend for many years. Ultimately it comes down to finances yes, but also adoring network. Remember, we are at a disadvantage because according to what you read we didn't have a scoutijg network. Other clubs would have had lists and scouting networks for years, we literally have about a year's worth.
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italiahorse
Well-Known Member
It's exactly what this thread is about.
Recruitment is assumed to be screwed up because fans aspirations are a lot higher than Sisu's.
And?
He was all set to sign but we were beaten at the last second by a team that was more local to him.
TM says in the article that Wilson wasn't looking for more money but signed for Rotherham because it's closer to his home.
I don't know how anyone can see Wilson was unattainable or unrealistic when he had agreed to sign for the club.
steve82
Well-Known Member
I think he was obviously looking at championship players on the slide like Wilson, Turner... If he meets them players and they and there agents make it sound like a deal is close or to be done then your gonna pursue and also think your in with a shout.
6 times is either very unlucky or you've been lead down the path so to speak and you'd expect a experienced manager to no the signs. Has he failed there, maybe. TMs quoted as saying it's not just about they had better offers, there own clubs messing them around and then agents getting involved for there slice.. I'm a fan of TM and I think he's missed a trick here this summer.
I've said before to you nick I believe he set his targets maybe to high for a club with our off the field problems can attract, and should therefore of looked to build a strong squad of league one players on 2 year deals signed preferably on free's.
People often refer to burtons success last year, tho they were built upon a successive play off finishing seasons and a promotion they are "fishing out the same pond as us"
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
We might have the calculated FL budget but do we have the cash? Which budget are they referring to - the clubs or the FL calculated one or something other?
The budget set by the FL is not going to include all of the players we have in the 1st team squad because of their age and being ex Academy either
Despite what TM says I cant help thinking the biggest reason for not signing the primary targets has been we cant afford or wont pay the wages. Not because the budget isn't there but because the cash is not available (there is a difference). Everything at the club has been cut back to reduce cost and financial risk, inevitable that it would catch up with financing the squad at some point.
Of course the summer months are times where the income is reduced in May & June followed by the ST sale boost in July. So that doesn't help even out cash flows. Probably also influenced the decision to do the recruitment late - which had the obvious risks. Some of the season ticket income has to be held back to pay the wages & overheads for the rest of the season I would think too
In addition there are no hidden gems to sell to raise the budget and cash either. Not only were we missing out on first choices but even our 6th choice in some positions - does that apply to the other positions too?
No extra funding we are told - have to live within our means. Does that living include repaying any interest or loans? Certainly some loan finance was repaid after Feb 2016 but that was on a revolving loan so surely the facility is still there?
its going to be a tough season I feel, we don't appear to have enough experience and mental toughness in the side. Relying on youngsters is fine up until they have a dip, (often when pitches get heavier) - we have a lot of youngsters. Also we seem to have picked up a number of lengthy injuries - is that just bad luck or pushing a young small squad too hard?
Feels like a lot of things conspiring against TM's efforts to bring players in. I have no doubt he and Venus have worked hard to try to get things done only to be frustrated repeatedly. Certainly doesn't feel like they were that successful, and there is a doubt in my mind as to if it has been that well planned and thought out (perhaps that's unreasonable I don't know)
Worrying but hopefully it can be turned around
The budget set by the FL is not going to include all of the players we have in the 1st team squad because of their age and being ex Academy either
Despite what TM says I cant help thinking the biggest reason for not signing the primary targets has been we cant afford or wont pay the wages. Not because the budget isn't there but because the cash is not available (there is a difference). Everything at the club has been cut back to reduce cost and financial risk, inevitable that it would catch up with financing the squad at some point.
Of course the summer months are times where the income is reduced in May & June followed by the ST sale boost in July. So that doesn't help even out cash flows. Probably also influenced the decision to do the recruitment late - which had the obvious risks. Some of the season ticket income has to be held back to pay the wages & overheads for the rest of the season I would think too
In addition there are no hidden gems to sell to raise the budget and cash either. Not only were we missing out on first choices but even our 6th choice in some positions - does that apply to the other positions too?
No extra funding we are told - have to live within our means. Does that living include repaying any interest or loans? Certainly some loan finance was repaid after Feb 2016 but that was on a revolving loan so surely the facility is still there?
its going to be a tough season I feel, we don't appear to have enough experience and mental toughness in the side. Relying on youngsters is fine up until they have a dip, (often when pitches get heavier) - we have a lot of youngsters. Also we seem to have picked up a number of lengthy injuries - is that just bad luck or pushing a young small squad too hard?
Feels like a lot of things conspiring against TM's efforts to bring players in. I have no doubt he and Venus have worked hard to try to get things done only to be frustrated repeatedly. Certainly doesn't feel like they were that successful, and there is a doubt in my mind as to if it has been that well planned and thought out (perhaps that's unreasonable I don't know)
Worrying but hopefully it can be turned around
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Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
No it isn't, it is screwed up because the strategy did not match the budget and player availability or their interest in this club.
I've no doubt the budget is aimed at a top half finish at least, but the squad recruited is delivering relegation form.
The manager gambled recklessly, the result may well be relegation.
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
If we went for and lost out on 6 centre halves then its not plan b its plan f or g. Cant complain about the manager or club for trying to get in decent players especially after all of the flouncing when Stokes came on board from non league. It seems to me that people are moaning for the sake of moaning.
Broken Hearted Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
If available
AFCCOVENTRY
Well-Known Member
That's a given
Don't talk such bloody sense, Nick and a few others want to find every way they can to lay all of the failings solely at the feet of the manager, and the last one and the next one after this and the next one after him.................
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily disagreeing but Wright did one or two good things in his 15 minutes at Fleetwood. One really strong run into their box springs to mind.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
No it wouldn't give them any return. If they put that in do you really think the following season in trying to compete in the championship where, history tells us, we are towards the bottom end in terms of revenue thanks to our stadium situation there will be a seven figure surplus for SISU to not only get their money back but make a profit?
Or it could be for some of the reasons Mowbray mentioned such as players moving to clubs closer to home.
And of course just because someone can earn more elsewhere doesn't mean that we should be offering that. If someone offers Bigi £50K a week should we match that? Of course not, but when he leaves it will be down to money and the budget but that in no way equates us having a small budget or not offering decent wages. Same with players coming in, if TM is offering Messi £1K a week to play for us the problem isn't the budget, the problem is Mowbray and Venus' targets being unrealistic. The fact that they've lost out on so many players would seem to indicate there is a problem with them setting their sights too high.
I would be amazed if when Mowbray talks about budget he is referring to anything but what he has to work with.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
[
Where is your source of info for all of the budgets for all of the clubs in League 1? I have never seen a list of these and I think a lot of people use guess work and supposition to support their argument rather than facts they can prove.
And they could of course as they have 40% of a considerable revenue to cover:
Policing { minimal in this division }
Ticketing { Now largely farmed out for the fans to pay for it at Ticketmaster }
Stewarding { See police }
Marketing { Don't make me laugh }
Rent { a Pittance now }
Transport
Ancillary staff like physios, medics etc { All cut back by all accounts }
Accounting and legals { Don't get me started ?! }
Other staff wages { Don't get me started even more }
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
I certainly wouldn't say a top 6 budget Grendel. But I hear your point and it's still valid on a top 12 budget.
Whatever budget he has (we will never know exactly) mowbray has messed up this summer badly.
Whatever budget he has (we will never know exactly) mowbray has messed up this summer badly.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
so would I but that's not necessarily the same as the one calculated by FL though ...... 60% of attributable turnover etc.
Also the budget that are held up by fans and very often the club not to mention the press almost always lead back to the FL calculated one. That could be significantly higher than what TM actually has been given to work with
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
There is a document the FL publishes, for clubs only, called the benchmarking report which, without naming them, contains details of the budget for all the clubs. Off the back off that it was stated, I think at the SCG, that we were in the top quarter (I think, going from memory).
So as TM has said are budget is pretty much the same unless everyone else's has radically changed we're in a similar position.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
But the thing people have been getting angry about is this seasons budget being slashed, which it hasn't by Mowbrays own admission. So whichever he is referring to is largely irrelevant in terms of comparison between the two seasons.
Moff
Well-Known Member
I am totally for a bigger budget but seriously with another 1 million you really think we would we get to the Championship?
Its like that 60 million debt we incurred didn't keep us in the Premier League did it.