jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
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Wasps & Council conspire again (16 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
- Start date
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
Weird
I clicked on the link and only see a headline. No details whatsoever. Come back in here and chiefs post bemoaning CCC and wasps has disappeared too.
I clicked on the link and only see a headline. No details whatsoever. Come back in here and chiefs post bemoaning CCC and wasps has disappeared too.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
moved it to the other thread as people were talking about it in there.
Sure its just another coincidence that Wasps who, according to their owner Richardson, aren't interested in property development 'I’m not a property developer, I’ve never developed anything in my life. I’ve never thought of this as something I might make profit from.' are now moving into property development.
Building on green belt land no less that requires CCC to change the city plan. Wonder if they purchased the land at a price reflecting the restrictions in place or a price appropriate to a site being developed for housing?
Seem to recall when we were talking about a stadium within the city boundary many were saying it was impossible if it wasn't in the city plan as that couldn't be changed.
How much more evidence do people need that the council and Wasps are working hand in hand?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
And strange that the council wouldn't let Severn Trent build on the land but are happy for Wasps to.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
I've "liked" it here too.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Key question......but I fear just another one we'll never know the true answer to.....
...this shady lot are starting to make the HR/Tesco/Ricoh deal look transparent & straightforward......
duffer
Well-Known Member
Surely no one here is saying that Wasps are demanding that SISU drop their legal action against the council in order to win a favourable planning decision (and hiding behind a shadow company to do so)?
Good Lord, that would be an outrage. Poor, loveable, nomadic Wasps and the upright, open, decent and honest people who run Coventry City Council in some sort of sly, corrupt, secretive plan. Why I can't believe anyone could even countenance the idea.
Good Lord, that would be an outrage. Poor, loveable, nomadic Wasps and the upright, open, decent and honest people who run Coventry City Council in some sort of sly, corrupt, secretive plan. Why I can't believe anyone could even countenance the idea.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Of course not but I'm sure our local media, who have never done a deal with that same council to suppress stories for Wasps and the councils benefit will be thoroughly investigating the rapidly rising number of coincidences to ensure nothing untoward is going on.
duffer
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. The CET will hold their feet to the fire on this, I've no doubt. Thank God we've got a press that can't be intimidated or bought into silence eh, or there's no telling what might go on.
olderskyblue
Well-Known Member
I tried it on chrome too, but still no story. clicked a link to Les' twitter, and voila, it was all there. Did wonder if something was going wrong with my PC or my short term memory. Didn't know you could move posts to other threads
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
ANYTHING, to make sure it's a success. Lots of reputations are on the line here.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
clearly they have a good working relationship, and work together, as to what or who they are conspiring against by this particular deal not sure unless you tie it to the AHC situation in some way. Both seem to gain by this proposal. Could there be secret handshakes on plans/deals, not naiive enough to think that couldn't be the case but we do not know there were - total transparency would be better but that's not the case for any of the parties involved in the greater saga of Coventry and the sports teams here - in reality business and property deals in particular rarely work that way
Taking several steps back then (a) it is similar to what has been proposed by CCFC/SISU on other potential sites and by CRFC at BPA (b) could be worth tens of millions (eg 240 houses at £200k each = £48m (c) helps the council hosing shortage (d) potentially knocks a big hole in the £34m debt that apparently threatens Wasps future, that is once ownership of WPS Trading Ltd switches to Wasps Holdings Ltd (presently owned by Richardson & Armstrong). Should it get approved - wont it need to go to Sec of State because it is (a) greenbelt & (b) flood plain?
People say things, circumstances/opportunities change, they say something different
In much the same way as the whole engineered pattern to break the Ricoh lease was quite clever then the potential for Wasps in this deal is also quite clever
Who owned the site whole site in the first place, Severn Trent or were others involved? If CCC land then sale value could be challenged but it has not been removed from green belt yet so I doubt there is a premium for potential planning
Couple of interesting developments today, and delivered by the local reporters in a professional way
Taking several steps back then (a) it is similar to what has been proposed by CCFC/SISU on other potential sites and by CRFC at BPA (b) could be worth tens of millions (eg 240 houses at £200k each = £48m (c) helps the council hosing shortage (d) potentially knocks a big hole in the £34m debt that apparently threatens Wasps future, that is once ownership of WPS Trading Ltd switches to Wasps Holdings Ltd (presently owned by Richardson & Armstrong). Should it get approved - wont it need to go to Sec of State because it is (a) greenbelt & (b) flood plain?
People say things, circumstances/opportunities change, they say something different
In much the same way as the whole engineered pattern to break the Ricoh lease was quite clever then the potential for Wasps in this deal is also quite clever
Who owned the site whole site in the first place, Severn Trent or were others involved? If CCC land then sale value could be challenged but it has not been removed from green belt yet so I doubt there is a premium for potential planning
Couple of interesting developments today, and delivered by the local reporters in a professional way
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
wasn't saying they would make £48m stupot that's an example top line a developer might make before deducting costs, I would think WSP Trading will sell the site on with full planning permission and take a profit on that which could be millions
Nick
Administrator
Sort of like the telegraph are trying to do?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Read an article that stated a margin of 7% for a small house-builder and 11.7% for a large one, though read elsewhere that Barratts were looking at 40%. Though once permission is granted you might see Wasps sell the land on to an actual house-builder. I have no idea how much it would cost to build an estate of 240 houses including all the infrastructure work required (no doubt CCC will find something to help this part).
Roughly £100K to build a 4bed. detached.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Does raise questions though doesn't it. If ST tried to do the same and were told it wasn't possible so sold the land at a lower value to Wasps and then once Wasps own it suddenly it can be built on and is worth far more.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
I would have much more problem with it had CCFC been refused then Wasps got the permission
as an aside what it does highlight is that by thinking unconventionally there are deals to be done that could benefit a sports team that do not centre on the stadium site.
In my opinion whoever the owners are at CCFC they need to think differently to the accepted norm from now on if they are to turn things around, but it will require the calculated risk of new capital and building partnerships
as an aside what it does highlight is that by thinking unconventionally there are deals to be done that could benefit a sports team that do not centre on the stadium site.
In my opinion whoever the owners are at CCFC they need to think differently to the accepted norm from now on if they are to turn things around, but it will require the calculated risk of new capital and building partnerships
Strange though the only potential developer in the area to achieve this is a WASPs offshoot - wonder when they were given the nod about going from Green Belt to Resi
Still I expect CCC to have a top slice arrangement and it will cover part cost of a swimming pool?
Incidentally it is the uplift achieved from green belt to resi where the money is - not in the actual build
Do you think
A) WASPS will meet the Gearing Covenants for the Bond Holders in the accounting year just past
b) That the overdue revaluation of the Arena Stadium will go up or down? Allowing for the uncertainty in the CCC lease position, the non appearance of the JLR naming rights, no stand naming rights and there has to be a substantial dilapidation schedule from what is rumoured?
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
What a shame we haven't got a relationship like this with the council
SkyBlueZack
Well-Known Member
It's shameful. Still got people defending and excusing the council though. They appear to be unable to do no wrong with some people. There is no doubt this has been concocted. It's a council assisting a private company to make money. They couldn't give the local team this assistance of course. Why should it just be given away? Councils are not here to aide failing sports teams. Well blow me down. Get your heads out your arses all that are conspicuous by their absence on this thread.
How about Gilbert or Reid put a request to see if the council bought any of the bonds?
How about Gilbert or Reid put a request to see if the council bought any of the bonds?
Otis
Well-Known Member
Saddening. Does look like Wasps are now here to stay. 
Would be interested to know what the reasons were for Severn Trent being turned down. I don't think you can simply say STW were tuned down, but Wasps got it. The key could be as to why STW were tuned down.
Still sad news.
Would be interested to know what the reasons were for Severn Trent being turned down. I don't think you can simply say STW were tuned down, but Wasps got it. The key could be as to why STW were tuned down.
Still sad news.
So the council are happy to work with private business even hedge funds but not SISU. Do you ever wonder why its only SISU no one will deal with or are you always looking in a different direction?
Otis
Well-Known Member
It's a fair point and is often glossed over on here. I heard a few years back (within the council and within Higgs) that I simply wouldn't believe some of things about Sisu and how they conducted business. The words I heard were 'shocking' and 'unbelievable.'
I do understand a lot of the wrath around at the moment, 'why do this for Wasps but not for Sisu,' but this I do think is a big factor, that of Sisu with the batter people in court mentality and falling out with a number of organisations.
As with everything pretty much, it's not all just black and white.
Nick
Administrator
What about before SISU? What about things like the Open Doors stuff?
Let's not pretend there is massive amounts of back scratching going on and that everything is just co-incidence
Otis
Well-Known Member
There is back scratching going on.What about before SISU? What about things like the Open Doors stuff?
Let's not pretend there is massive amounts of back scratching going on and that everything is just co-incidence
I like many others though believe that the council are not 'against' the football club, just Sisu.
Yes, yes, I know, that in turn hurts the club in hurting Sisu, but I think there is a short term pain for long term gain scenario being played out.
There are a fair number of councillors who are Coventry City supporters, but I do believe the council have a twinkle in their eye that is blinkering them somewhat and they are just salivating over the thought of maybe the biggest rugby club in the world on their doorstep.
Also one very big beady eye is on the City of Culture bid, which Wasps seem to be totally onboard with.
Double whammy!!
Most citizens and traders havent a good relationship with this Council!
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
Update from the Observer.
UPDATE: Land Registry documents show part of the Green Belt land was sold on April 12 this year by Severn Trent Water to WPS Trading Ltd for £900,000 plus VAT.
UPDATE: Land Registry documents show part of the Green Belt land was sold on April 12 this year by Severn Trent Water to WPS Trading Ltd for £900,000 plus VAT.