Nick
Administrator
Very strange.
So a lease was worse than us not buying it at the start and Wasps taking over was one of the best things to happen since you had supported the club?
Are you just on a wind up?
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- Thread starter I was eleven in 87
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Very strange.
So a lease was worse than us not buying it at the start and Wasps taking over was one of the best things to happen since you had supported the club?
Are you just on a wind up?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong. Not saying it is in any way likely just that the longer everyone cries BS and doesn't get behind it the longer SISU can use it to stall things. If everyone got behind it then the details you mention like how it would be paid for and what our status would be could be pressed for very quickly.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
No they didn't "The Board of Arena Coventry Limited (ACL) announces that it has made an application to the High Court in London to request that it make an administration order against Coventry City Football Club (CCFC)."
But you're saying we should only go after the Ricoh and discard all other options. In that scenario Wasps can charge us whatever they like. What happens if all our eggs are in the Ricoh basket and they say we won't accept less than £1m a year?
Not disputing that. Just making the point that you can't disregard all comments by ACL / CCC / Higgs as a negotiation tactic and then not do the same with statements from the other side.
This has to be a joke.
How is it ridiculous. Oucho is saying that we should ignore any other potential options in our future and stay at the Ricoh. In that scenario we have to accept any offer Wasps make. If they are short every year on their bond payments do you not think there is a chance the rent and / or costs get bumped up so we make up the shortfall for them?
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I noticed in the minutes tha TF never once mentioned the second site outside the city that he had identified if the Butts deal fell through. Maybe he forgot it was there. Or maybe it never existed in the first place.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I think its fair to say that time has disregarded pretty much everything that SISU have said on the Ricoh.
Nick
Administrator
Badgers.
One thing I didn't particular like was the:
He didn't say good for Cov Rugby, might be nitpicking over something not likely to happen but if it did I'd want it to be good for them too and help them grow and progress.
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Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
It never existed. I do agree with one point oucho makes a long term rent with best possible deal would actually be an asset to the club and secures let's say a 20-25 year deal a real future and we can stop messing around with where we are playing every year. We can concentrate on football perhaps then.
New owners or current owners we can't keep renting off wasps for 2 years every 2 years for the rest of time.
Nick
Administrator
Is that an asset that would make somebody want to jump at buying CCFC?
Would think in that aspect it would be better for 2 years, then if somebody new comes in they can either go to Wasps and negotiate their own deal or look at new stadium options rather than being stuck for 20 years.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Happy by the way for the butts or any other new stadium also but we can keep renewing every 2 years at the Ricoh was my point.
Just my opinion, butts isn't big enough and not realistic with cov rugby who get 1-2k crowds. Any new stadium we simply don't have to money and we would have to pay it all back and that a big burden and especially for any future owner. For now.
Just my opinion, butts isn't big enough and not realistic with cov rugby who get 1-2k crowds. Any new stadium we simply don't have to money and we would have to pay it all back and that a big burden and especially for any future owner. For now.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Yes I get that Nick. It was just my opinion. Not factual but in my opinion 20 years is not that long but secures the first team fixtures and club. Football can then be talked about and progress on the pitch rather than Westminster debates and where are we playing next year? It's embarrassing and depressing. Ricoh is already built it has our names on the seats (for now) biggest stadium in league 1. Lots of positives you have to admit?
Why would the 20 years put off new owners? If new owners want to build their own stadium it won't be built and ready in 4 years probably so why not just put a clause in a 25 year deal with wasps that you can break within 3 years.
Nick
Administrator
I agree if there are sensible break clauses, I just meant if it is a locked in 20 year thing like the last lease was then people might not want to touch it. If they had more freedom to come in and do their own thing (negotiate or build their own) rather than take on past deals it would be more appealing.
The westminister debate about where we are playing didn't seem to actually discuss the situation about where we are playing and what is going on.
That certainly doesn't gel with the Initial soundbites.Badgers.
One thing I didn't particular like was the:
He didn't say good for Cov Rugby, might be nitpicking over something not likely to happen but if it did I'd want it to be good for them too and help them grow and progress.
The Gentleman
Well-Known Member
FFS another Nick i see. Questions with questions without answering the ones you were asked. Except you go one step further by picking bits that you think suit your point without actually reading all of what I've said.
They won't charge us £2million a year. You have no facts to back this up. I don't the other way except Sisu went on rent strike and fucked off for having to pay £1.2million a year and that is a fact. So it wouldn't be in Wasps interests to charge anything like what you've said because if they are short on their bonds, do you not think that something is better than nothing? I said I wasn't agreeing with Oucho but a long term rent deal potentially gives us some stability. Sisu have given us nothing concrete to prove that they can build or sustain our future away from the Ricoh. I liked the post made by NW because I would love a stadium near the centre, in fact I would still love to be at HR but we are where we are. We need somewhere to play otherwise what is the outcome if we have nowhere to play? That is why I said what I said. You on the other hand obviously couldn't be bothered to answer what I asked, fair enough as it's late and I cannot be arsed with arguing with you.
oucho
Well-Known Member
Care to answer the question of whether it's ok to wriggle out of a deal you've signef up to just because it doesn't suit you any more? It was disgusting shameful behaviour. Made me ashamefmd to be a CCFC fan.
oucho
Well-Known Member
Dave you seem like a nice and smart bloke unlike many of those on here but i do want to take you doen the pub and explain it all to you. SBT isn't the best forum for that.
Nick
Administrator
So what happens if the deal is unsustainable? Let me guess, they bought the club it's their fault.
Why didn't they just extend the lease for acl, that would mean acl is safer and they wouldn't be so dependant on the rent?
The lease needed to go, would be strange that it would be ok to be locked in for years because past owners agreed it no matter if it was silly.
Who would be so offended by the lease being broken and would be so happy about wasps moving here?
Rusty Trombone
Well-Known Member
Apparently not.
Q & A between the Judge and Deering (extract). There is more about a letter sent to Fisher disagreeing with minutes that were taken, minutes that appeared to suggest that a rent holiday was agreeable.
12 Q. In particular, did Mr Fisher communicate to you that, so
13 far as ACL were concerned, they would not agree or
14 accept the non-payment of rent by the football club?
15 A. Well, they issued a summary judgment, so I presume as
16 much.
17 Q. Do you have any recollection of Mr Fisher saying, "Look,
18 there's a problem, finances for a start, ACL are not
19 going to give us a holiday from the rent"?
20 A. I don't remember that conversation.
21 Q. Mr Fisher would have been remiss upon receipt of this
22 letter if he hadn't let somebody know that the rent
23 holiday was a non-starter so far as ACL were concerned.
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albatross
Well-Known Member
Extending the lease would not have helped at all. What needed to be payed was the outstanding amount to the bank over the agreed period at the agreed interest rate. Hence the council purchasing the loan and charging a commercial rate of interest to ACL. WASPS have since repaid this loan in full to the council funded by their bond issue.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
If you read what the Gentleman says. He "Dabbled". I nor he has said it's written in stone but they work very closely together without one the other couldn't really work.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
If new owners said that they could build so much on such a small plot that has access problems for a start the first thing that would come to mind would be that they had given Fisher a job.
Astute
Well-Known Member
More like damned if they speak bullshit. And that is all we seem to get from them.
ricohroar
Well-Known Member
I don't know what all the arguing is about. CCFC will never own a stadium again. If fisher and co did build at the BPA or anywhere else, SISU would own it and they would take rent from CCFC not just while they were there, but long after the have sold CCFC.
We have a stadium, rented or not, a successful team will bring in income, not div 4 5000 spectators pie and beer money.
We have a stadium, rented or not, a successful team will bring in income, not div 4 5000 spectators pie and beer money.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Wrong! SISU put CCFC into Administration... Hence SISU's choice of Administrator Appleton!... A blind man could see it was what SISU wanted. The only time SISU played a "Blinder" Thus getting in first!
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Think we can all agree that the breaking of the Ricoh lease was a planned event with a known legal process and known outcome....... administration. Personally I think it was a clever plan and I haven't seen anything in it that was illegal, it was use of the legal process
However that process to break the lease did not start with ACL petitioning for administration, that was just a step in the planned series of events. The plan started much earlier I would suggest when ARVO lent Otium £2m and took a charge over the assets of CCFC ltd & CCFC H Ltd. So separating the assets from liabilities and ultimately leaving ARVO in control of any administration
That ACL applied to court on 3 steps of the plan for the full amount of rent due would indicate they had not agreed to a rental holiday. The fact that everyone was surprised including ACL that the only thing left in CCFC Ltd was the lease indicates who controlled the plan.
However that process to break the lease did not start with ACL petitioning for administration, that was just a step in the planned series of events. The plan started much earlier I would suggest when ARVO lent Otium £2m and took a charge over the assets of CCFC ltd & CCFC H Ltd. So separating the assets from liabilities and ultimately leaving ARVO in control of any administration
That ACL applied to court on 3 steps of the plan for the full amount of rent due would indicate they had not agreed to a rental holiday. The fact that everyone was surprised including ACL that the only thing left in CCFC Ltd was the lease indicates who controlled the plan.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I'd rather our landlords were someone with a connection to Coventry, rather than some parasite, franchised operation who have no affinity to their own fan base by moving permanently circa 100 miles. Wasps have absolutely no interest in us whatsoever other than using our presence at the Ricoh to increase their revenues in order to assist in paying off their bonds debt.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
As unlikely as it is, I'd love us to own/part own the BPA with CRFC. The Ricoh has been an unmitigated disaster from us from before day 1, with so many parties culpable. Staying at the Ricoh, we're forever intrinsically linked to a franchised rugby club.
I'd much rather we moved elsewhere within the City, even if it means downgrading in size (12k with the option to build up to 25k would be fine with me). We need to start again, no ties to Wasps, ACL, CCC etc and build again bottom up. Fresh start.
If that's at a re-developed smaller stadium in Coventry, I'm bang up for it.
I'd much rather we moved elsewhere within the City, even if it means downgrading in size (12k with the option to build up to 25k would be fine with me). We need to start again, no ties to Wasps, ACL, CCC etc and build again bottom up. Fresh start.
If that's at a re-developed smaller stadium in Coventry, I'm bang up for it.
oucho
Well-Known Member
It saddens me that there are grown adults, intelligent-sounded people like yourself who are not morally outraged by SISU's forcible breaking of the lease through Phoenixing tactics, and who wouldn't celebrate when they were foiled in their objectives by the council whipping the rug from under them by selling to Wasps. It was so richly deserved, it was delicious.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
People have considered it already from the few crumbs that Sisu have thrown down. There a few fat pigeons on here.
We need to see the plan so we can get behind it.
I suspect it's just a ploy to get a deal at the Ricoh and I suspect Wasps, like me, know exactly that.
It's all games with Sisu but they are not good at it.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
but some of us love the club too much to take pleasure in something that is ultimately damaging it (no matter what the rights or wrongs). Others are quite happy for the club to be collateral damage, you sound like one of them, each to their own.
italiahorse
Well-Known Member
Happy with league one then ?
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
no one, be it owners, council, directors, investors, should have used or be using our club in the manner they have or are still doing. To us CCFC is much more than a tool in clever wheeler dealing one-upmanship. Its about passion, belonging, identity and above all a love for our team and football.
CCFC became and it seems still is about doing the deal, about the ego and stubborn positions of a few to the detriment of the ones that really matter, the ones that really care - The Fans.
And they wonder why the fans are upset, frustrated and disbelieving in reality it is hard to believe why they wouldn't be
CCFC became and it seems still is about doing the deal, about the ego and stubborn positions of a few to the detriment of the ones that really matter, the ones that really care - The Fans.
And they wonder why the fans are upset, frustrated and disbelieving in reality it is hard to believe why they wouldn't be
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Doesn't change our tenant status though, might not improve our earning potential (especially if it limits gates to below 16K) so in actual fact might actually make us a less attractive proposition for potential new owners. But as long as we can get one over on Wasps hey.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I didn't see where I typed that.
That 11k stadium is absolutely killing AFC Bournemouth at the moment, isn't it.......