Meeting with EFL (9 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Kid]

Question:

Can you offer assurances that the EFL will not, under any circumstances, allow Coventry City Football Club to relocate again, even on a temporary basis, away from the city of Coventry? If the EFL is unable to provide those assurances, can you outline under what circumstances you would allow the club to relocate away from its home city?

Football League response:

With regard to the issue of ground re-location the board will always consider any application to re-locate on a temporary basis by any of our 72 member clubs on its merits and in accordance with our regulations. Generally, though, it will ask itself whether it is in the long term interests of the club.

Many EFL clubs do not own their own ground and there are a limited number of stadia in which clubs can stage professional football matches. Therefore, if the EFL Board, as a general policy, refuses permission for clubs to relocate when they are unable to reach agreement with their landlord, it will seriously undermine the ability of football clubs to negotiate a fair rent.

In such circumstances the landlord would always hold the whip hand in any negotiation because they would know that the club had no choice but to agree the terms offered. This would cause great financial harm to professional football clubs in England and Wales.

For example, in 2008 the board gave Rotherham United permission to play their matches in Sheffield while the club built a new stadium in Rotherham. This eventually had a successful outcome with the club moving to the New York Stadium in 2012 where it has since thrived.


Of course they "Thrived" they actually did what they said they would do.... "Build a Stadium" ffs. After the last fiasco the EFL won't guarantee that SISU will not take our Football Club out of the City... AGAIN".

 

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[Grendel]

It shoes those who think the league won't allow the club to move away are delusional.

 

[Nick]

As said in the other thread weeks ago, of course they can't force things.

As said, if they did then Wasps could just whack 00000's onto the rent. As could other landlords of 1 stadium cities.

 

[shmmeee]

As said in the other thread weeks ago, of course they can't force things.

As said, if they did then Wasps could just whack 00000's onto the rent. As could other landlords of 1 stadium cities.

We probably should've thought about that before throwing away a long term tenancy, not that I think they would.

From the other side, how much is it reasonable for a club to pay to stay in their city?

Can London teams like Wimbledon relocate because London property is expensive?

All of this comes back to it being fucking stupid to make out football clubs are normal businesses that can be traded as such. In any other case there's no issue where a company is located, but with football that doesn't apply.

We need government legislation on this.

 

[Captain Dart]

A very wishy washy reply. I do not think anything can be guaranteed from any of this.

I think the EFL will just let things drift while CCFC are fulfilling their fixtures.

I'm wondering now if League membership is seen as a necessity by SISU as the club is essentially worthless.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Where is the sense though? Decent rent, minimal overheads on a long term contract, opposed to Northampton with(This time around) a couple of hundred fans, practically no income. How could SISU survive another bout of loss of fans. Transparency, Honesty, Good comms... Total f**king s**t more like!

 

[Ashdown]

No but if they give a shit they could at least play mediator and make sure the rent reflects the right deal for CCFC in the league they now play and also the quality and potential the stadium they have access to.

 

[ceetee]

We probably should've thought about that before throwing away a long term tenancy, not that I think they would.

From the other side, how much is it reasonable for a club to pay to stay in their city?

Can London teams like Wimbledon relocate because London property is expensive?

All of this comes back to it being fucking stupid to make out football clubs are normal businesses that can be traded as such. In any other case there's no issue where a company is located, but with football that doesn't apply.

We need government legislation on this.

Well that's the problem

Almost all FCs are businesses but SISU, in trying to run a profitable business, have forgotten that the purpose of the business is to play football.

 

[Nick]

We probably should've thought about that before throwing away a long term tenancy, not that I think they would.

From the other side, how much is it reasonable for a club to pay to stay in their city?

Can London teams like Wimbledon relocate because London property is expensive?

All of this comes back to it being fucking stupid to make out football clubs are normal businesses that can be traded as such. In any other case there's no issue where a company is located, but with football that doesn't apply.

We need government legislation on this.

It isn't just us though, it is every team.

If they say "you must have a deal to play in Coventry by Christmas Day 2015" then wasps can just say on Christmas Eve an amount and it has to be done.

The same as any other landlord of a football ground could just whack the rent up because they have to pay it or the club is kicked out of the league.

It was said what they would say weeks before she even met the FL, more of a PR stunt than her actually wanting answers as city fans could have given them to her.

If Wimbledon are paying the "going rate" for london land / property then I am sure thats ok, if their landlord was able to be in a position that Wimbledon had to play at his stadium or be kicked out of the league he would be laughing.

 

[Ashdown]

Wasps will want an acceptable market rate rent and the football fans footfall to give value to their deal with the caterers { Compass }, so it will be sorted, unless SISU raise their litigation game in which case they might just bite the bullet and tell them to jog on like almost everyone else.

 

[Gosford Green]

All the FL are concerned with is CCFC being able to fulfill their fixtures, they could not give a toss where we play.
Which brings me around to where? NTFC are under new ownership and they do not want us at Sixfields neither do the (NTFC) fans.
No other league club in their right mind would either so that is when the league may actually do something, possibly at the start of the season before the agreement at the Ricoh runs out, which might be stripping the owners of the golden share followed by..........

"You're wondering now, What to do, now you know this is the end"

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

It isn't just us though, it is every team.

If they say "you must have a deal to play in Coventry by Christmas Day 2015" then wasps can just say on Christmas Eve an amount and it has to be done.
Not if a 10 years contract already in place.

The same as any other landlord of a football ground could just whack the rent up because they have to pay it or the club is kicked out of the league.
See my reply above to point number 1.

It was said what they would say weeks before she even met the FL, more of a PR stunt than her actually wanting answers as city fans could have given them to her.
No CCFC fan could guarantee any answers

If Wimbledon are paying the "going rate" for london land / property then I am sure thats ok, if their landlord was able to be in a position that Wimbledon had to play at his stadium or be kicked out of the league he would be laughing.

Please revert to my reply in point number 1

 

[Nick]

Please revert to my reply in point number 1

So the landlord has the monopoly on the 10 year contract dont they if their stadium is the only place the team can play or get kicked out of the league!

In 10 years, rinse and repeat.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

So the landlord has the monopoly on the 10 year contract dont they if their stadium is the only place the team can play or get kicked out of the league!

In 10 years, rinse and repeat.

I thought we were talking about NOW!...Rinse and repeat!
Oh! please forgive me, I forgot you like to move the goalposts to suit your posts

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Wasps will want a contract for more than 10 years. Helps with stadium sponsorship and bonds. They also reportedly want a deal without break clauses? Wasps will also want a substantial increase in rent. This is a PR ploy by a councillor* (surprise surprise) to push the club into a corner. It is the club being pushed into a corner and not SISU as it is the club who will be liable for the rent. I have said time and again the council needs to justify it's sale to Wasps therefore CCFC is seen as collateral damage. I get the impression fans will be happy with a rent increase because it will be SISUs fault and they deserve it. The club don't though. We have been used by the council in their attempt at playing arena operators and we're now being pushed to paying for Wasps adventure in Coventry.

Most people knew what the FL would say, we know there only concern is fixtures and not being sued.

*Would IMO have carried more credence if it had come from an ex-player or manager or even Elliott or Hoffman. By it being a councillor it looks and feels political.

 

[Nick]

I thought we were talking about NOW!...Rinse and repeat!

It isn't just about us is it? If the football league start demanding we play in Coventry or the club goes out of the league like some people seem to expect, it will be the same everywhere.

Especially when it is an MP who voted for Wasps coming here pushing for it with them. It would be a fantastic negotiating factor wouldn't it if CCFC had to agree to play at the Ricoh or be kicked out the league.

I think it was chiefdave who went through and answered her questions before it happened.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

[QUOTE="SkyBlueZack, post: 1185260, member: 5249"]Wasps will want a contract for more than 10 years. Helps with stadium sponsorship and bonds. They also reportedly want a deal without break clauses? Wasps will also want a substantial increase in rent. This is a PR ploy by a councillor* (surprise surprise) to push the club into a corner. It is the club being pushed into a corner and not SISU as it is the club who will be liable for the rent. I have said time and again the council needs to justify it's sale to Wasps therefore CCFC is seen as collateral damage. I get the impression fans will be happy with a rent increase because it will be SISUs fault and they deserve it. The club don't though. We have been used by the council in their attempt at playing arena operators and we're now being pushed to paying for Wasps adventure in Coventry.

Most people knew what the FL would say, we know there only concern is fixtures and not being sued.

*Would IMO have carried more credence if it had come from an ex-player or manager or even Elliott or Hoffman. By it being a councillor it looks and feels political.[/QUOTE]

We'll never know now... Will we?

 

[SkyBlueZack]

[QUOTE="SkyBlueZack, post: 1185260, member: 5249"]Wasps will want a contract for more than 10 years. Helps with stadium sponsorship and bonds. They also reportedly want a deal without break clauses? Wasps will also want a substantial increase in rent. This is a PR ploy by a councillor* (surprise surprise) to push the club into a corner. It is the club being pushed into a corner and not SISU as it is the club who will be liable for the rent. I have said time and again the council needs to justify it's sale to Wasps therefore CCFC is seen as collateral damage. I get the impression fans will be happy with a rent increase because it will be SISUs fault and they deserve it. The club don't though. We have been used by the council in their attempt at playing arena operators and we're now being pushed to paying for Wasps adventure in Coventry.

Most people knew what the FL would say, we know there only concern is fixtures and not being sued.

*Would IMO have carried more credence if it had come from an ex-player or manager or even Elliott or Hoffman. By it being a councillor it looks and feels political.

We'll never know now... Will we?[/QUOTE]

Was it not reported a 20-25 year deal was being discussed? Was it not reported CCFC wanted a rolling contract? Would that not intimate Wasps want a long deal and CCFC a short deal?

 

[Nick]

*Would IMO have carried more credence if it had come from an ex-player or manager or even Elliott or Hoffman. By it being a councillor it looks and feels political.

I think the fact it is a councillor, during the CT's attack, the trust's attack etc, the council / wasps stumbling blocks on doing deals and putting pressure on makes it obvious. Also that she was also straight to the telegraph with the answers make it look that way. I would guess she was also given the questions by somebody to ask too.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

[QUOTE="Nick, post: 1185262, member: 1"]It isn't just about us is it? If the football league start demanding we play in Coventry or the club goes out of the league like some people seem to expect, it will be the same everywhere.

Especially when it is an MP who voted for Wasps coming here pushing for it with them. It would be a fantastic negotiating factor wouldn't it if CCFC had to agree to play at the Ricoh or be kicked out the league.

I think it was chiefdave who went through and answered her questions before it happened.[/QUOTE]

So if there was a 10 years minmum contract(Just for SkyBlueZack) It gives the Football Club 10 years to come up with a stadium.. Mind you at the pace SISU/CCFC are going we might get the shithouses built and perhaps a changing room!

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

We'll never know now... Will we?

Was it not reported a 20-25 year deal was being discussed? Was it not reported CCFC wanted a rolling contract? Would that not intimate Wasps want a long deal and CCFC a short deal?[/QUOTE]

Link!........Edit* don't worry I found it myself.
So IF and it's a big IF these "Reported deals" were to happen isn't that good for the entity that is called CCFC? Then again not very good for SISU being the owners and being tied down to Ricoh arena. What am I saying? SISU are NOT CCFC though are they?

 

[Nick]

So if there was a 10 years minmum contract(Just for SkyBlueZack) It gives the Football Club 10 years to come up with a stadium.. Mind you at the pace SISU/CCFC are going we might get the shithouses built and perhaps a changing room!

And if the football league could force teams to play at a single stadium, landlords would be sending MPs before they did the 10 year deal to make sure the team had no other option.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

And if the football league could force teams to play at a single stadium, landlords would be sending MPs before they did the 10 year deal to make sure the team had no other option.

And if I could get pregnant, I'd be the richest man in the World! Who the f**k is saying that? Certainly not me! All it takes is common sense, and terms that suit all sides... Then again we're talking about SISU again, aren't we!

 

[shmmeee]

So the landlord has the monopoly on the 10 year contract dont they if their stadium is the only place the team can play or get kicked out of the league!

In 10 years, rinse and repeat.

Well, yeah. That's why throwing away a guaranteed tenancy agreement with nothing to go to fucking stupid. It's why building a stadium should be priority one. Your landlord has you by the balls.

But if I set up a business in Hollywood catering to film stars, I can't bitch it the rent goes up and I can only afford Bumfuck nowhere. I should've factored that into the business plan.

Coventry City customers are in Coventry, everyone apart from the club seems to recognise this. That means that for the club to not have to worry about other entities controlling it's future (again, not that there's any evidence they are) step one is sort the stadium out. That's why people are worried. That's why people say Sisu are shitty owners.

 

[Nick]

Well, yeah. That's why throwing away a guaranteed tenancy agreement with nothing to go to fucking stupid. It's why building a stadium should be priority one. Your landlord has you by the balls.

But if I set up a business in Hollywood catering to film stars, I can't bitch it the rent goes up and I can only afford Bumfuck nowhere. I should've factored that into the business plan.

Coventry City customers are in Coventry, everyone apart from the club seems to recognise this. That means that for the club to not have to worry about other entities controlling it's future (again, not that there's any evidence they are) step one is sort the stadium out. That's why people are worried. That's why people say Sisu are shitty owners.

The tenancy agreement that was also signed because they didnt have much choice?

I haven't said SISU are good owners, just that the FL can't force deals like that.

Nobody is saying about the rent going up, it is the monopoly that the landlord would have so the FL can't create that position by saying "it has to be there else you are out of the league".

 

[rupert_bear]

The next question to the FA or FL, should be what happens if there is no agreement re a ground and when ? and if the golden share is removed what happens ? We all have to remember there are 71 other members of the FL and the league
Can't be seen to favour one above the other.

 

[Nick]

And if I could get pregnant, I'd be the richest man in the World! Who the f**k is saying that? Certainly not me! All it takes is common sense, and terms that suit all sides... Then again we're talking about SISU again, aren't we!

Erm, wasn't the whole idea of the meeting the MP going to the FL to try and get them to say they will block any moves away from Coventry? Where there is only 1 stadium?

People knew before she was even briefed by somebody with the questions what would be said.

 

[Gosford Green]

It is obvious why the Ricoh was sold to Wasps, CCC wanted out of owning the Ricoh and wanted the stadium to go to anyone but SISU.
Collateral damage is the term for what happened to the football club.

That is in the past, some on here have stated that they see CCFC and SISU as separate entities, it is a shame SISU or whoever owns us can not allow that to happen.
The clubs owners now have to let the club operate as a football club, the main concern currently is its very existence caused by continually flogging dead horses.

 

[Nick]

The next question to the FA or FL, should be what happens if there is no agreement re a ground and when ? and if the golden share is removed what happens ? We all have to remember there are 71 other members of the FL and the league
Can't be seen to favour one above the other.

They also can't be seen to be forcing people into agreements.

I'd guess it would depend on the situation, ie if Wasps still "refuse" to negotiate.

 

[shmmeee]

The tenancy agreement that was also signed because they didnt have much choice?

I haven't said SISU are good owners, just that the FL can't force deals like that.

Nobody is saying about the rent going up, it is the monopoly that the landlord would have so the FL can't create that position by saying "it has to be there else you are out of the league".

I'm not claiming the frying pan wasn't hot, just that maybe we should've considered options other than the fire when jumping.

The mistake was throwing out all our cards in the hope of winning legal action.

Let's be honest here mate, we are how many years in without so much as a land purchase?

Put it in football terms: you don't sell your only goalie, even if he is shit, before you've found a better one.

Edit: we all know what needs to be done. We've been saying it since the rent strike: put planning permission in.

There's only one reason they're still coming out with the tinfoil hat nonsense about dark forces at work against them, and that's because they're all mouth and their bluff has been well and truly called. The law is clear, CCC couldn't stop a new stadium without a valid reason. FFS they couldn't stop Tetris Towers!

If what the club say is true, all it will take to reveal it is a planning application. Why hasn't that happened in the four years of grandstanding?

Anyway. We are off the point. Point is football clubs aren't businesses really some should stop pretending they are. Legislate for fan involvement, playing in a catchment area and councils to be required by law to find them somewhere to play. Sorted.

In fact, a requirement from the FA would certainly light a fire under CCC to assist in finding somewhere to play.

 

[Gosford Green]

They also can't be seen to be forcing people into agreements.

I'd guess it would depend on the situation, ie if Wasps still "refuse" to negotiate.

And if they do not alter there position? The ball is in the hands of SISU.

 

[Grendel]

I'm not claiming the frying pan wasn't hot, just that maybe we should've considered options other than the fire when jumping.

The mistake was throwing out all our cards in the hope of winning legal action.

Let's be honest here mate, we are how many years in without so much as a land purchase?

Put it in football terms: you don't sell your only goalie, even if he is shit, before you've found a better one.

Brighton did

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Erm, wasn't the whole idea of the meeting the MP going to the FL to try and get them to say they will block any moves away from Coventry? Where there is only 1 stadium?

People knew before she was even briefed by somebody with the questions what would be said.

Erm, wasn't the whole idea of coming back to the Ricoh from Northampton to discuss a rental agreement with Wasps and NOT let every CCFC supporter round the UK. on the DAY of return know that "It is only a temporary measure till we build our own stadium in three years"
Btw Mr Fisher where is it?

 

[Nick]

And if they do not alter there position? The ball is in the hands of SISU.

Yes, so the option has to be there to be able to move if Wasps will refuse. They can't just take the golden share.

It is what SISU do then that the FL would be judging wouldn't it?

 

[Grendel]

Erm, wasn't the whole idea of coming back to the Ricoh from Northampton to discuss a rental agreement with Wasps and NOT let every CCFC supporter round the UK. on the DAY of return know that "It is only a temporary measure till we build our own stadium in three years"
Btw Mr Fisher where is it?

Unlikely as wasps didn't own the stadium then.