The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (33 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
There are some on here who would like to portray the Brexit vote as a racist vote or one made by people who'd been deceived. They like to confuse matters by introducing 'versions' of Brexit; soft or hard. Nonsense of course.
The fact is that people voted to take back control of their country. Its laws, borders, trade etc. They decided that they didn't want to pay billions every year to be members of a corrupt and crumbling institution. They voted for the UK to take back its sovereignty. That's what the Brexit vote meant and everyone knows it.
However I have believed for some time that that won't happen, at least in the short term. It won't happen because the EU tentacles are too deeply woven into the fabric of powerful companies, institutions, organisations and individuals. People who benefit personally from the system and couldn't give a stuff about the wishes of the masses. The list of failed hypocritical lefty ex-politicians who've been whining since June 23rd is enough to make my skin crawl. Mandelson, Blair, Kinnock, Ashdown, Miliband, Clegg. Enough, enough.
The EU won't change because it is run by the likes of the very people I've mentioned above. So it will inevitably fail. It's inevitable. People across Europe hate the EU. The will of the people will eventually prevail.
The fact is that people voted to take back control of their country. Its laws, borders, trade etc. They decided that they didn't want to pay billions every year to be members of a corrupt and crumbling institution. They voted for the UK to take back its sovereignty. That's what the Brexit vote meant and everyone knows it.
However I have believed for some time that that won't happen, at least in the short term. It won't happen because the EU tentacles are too deeply woven into the fabric of powerful companies, institutions, organisations and individuals. People who benefit personally from the system and couldn't give a stuff about the wishes of the masses. The list of failed hypocritical lefty ex-politicians who've been whining since June 23rd is enough to make my skin crawl. Mandelson, Blair, Kinnock, Ashdown, Miliband, Clegg. Enough, enough.
The EU won't change because it is run by the likes of the very people I've mentioned above. So it will inevitably fail. It's inevitable. People across Europe hate the EU. The will of the people will eventually prevail.
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Yes, right they weren't deceived and they're not racist.. funnily enough a large amount of the ' people ' don't buy that and don't want important decisions to be made by Royal Perogative.
Captain Dart
Well-Known Member
Meanwhile in Animal Farm.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Yet now they are moaning because that same country's court has said that same country's laws need to be observed.
The British elite in the form of privileged public schoolboys e.g. Johnson and Farage, billionaire newspaper owner and the Tory party all seem annoyed that judges, including the Master of the Rolls confirmed that parliament is sovereign and cannot be bypassed by a Middle Ages royal prerogative. The question that I am asking as one of the people, is why? When the referendum so clear a mandate is, why are they so worried that the 'people's' elected representatives may soften or ditch Brexit?
I would have thought that an endorsement by parliament would be great for the leavers. A clear mandate for the government and the terms of Brexit agreed upon. Couldn't be better for the leavers.
I would have thought that an endorsement by parliament would be great for the leavers. A clear mandate for the government and the terms of Brexit agreed upon. Couldn't be better for the leavers.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Because the political class don't want us to leave the EU and all it's benefits that's why we are apprehensive. More mps want to stay in the EU.
Johnson and Farage belong to the political class. The Tory party is the political class. I just don't get it. The judges stopped the political class ruling per prerogative and it's meltdown in the leavers camp. Rejoice the British system is working..
dutchman
Well-Known Member
EU Council President Donald Tusk said it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077
'Hard Brexit' or 'no Brexit' for Britain - Tusk
He also said they could come back anytime
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
Well basically this is what the question was all about, to deliver a break from the EU. The people have made their decision and now it is up to the politicians to implement this.
Just out of interest for people the vote was not to leave the Council of Europe, whom are a separate entity to EU, which keeps all our lovely Human Rights intact and tied up with the European Convention on Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights. I guess any British Government wanting to change this will be met by stiff opposition under International Law. Even Russia is part of the Council of Europe and abides by these rules.
Enjoy your break from the business led single market.
Just out of interest for people the vote was not to leave the Council of Europe, whom are a separate entity to EU, which keeps all our lovely Human Rights intact and tied up with the European Convention on Human Rights and the European Court of Human Rights. I guess any British Government wanting to change this will be met by stiff opposition under International Law. Even Russia is part of the Council of Europe and abides by these rules.
Enjoy your break from the business led single market.
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Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Yes I'm sure he did. Going to miss our money and jobs and benefits we provide no doubt. I would want Britain back also.
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Yes of course there are no good guys as such as remain had tony Blair and nick clegg the former I think shouldn't even appear in Britain anymore. A vile man. I'm sure Blair is a multi millionaire so not to worry. But yes I take your point but I only outlined what the fear was. The fear is a betrayal of leaving the single market and open borders and cheap labor. politicians want this because is suits them. It doesn't work for ordinary people as the vote clearly shows.
If MPs want a vote then that's fine by me.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I voted leave. I don't have any problem with the courts upholding our democratic process. The whining from both sides about things being undemocratic because it doesn't fit their paradigm is silly.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I voted remain but regardless, this was the right decision and part of the our constitution which has been in place for nearly 400 years. To make big changes to policy you need to wrote legislation, that legislation has to go through the house of commons and the house of lords.
Its not going to stop brexit.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Its not going to stop brexit.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Yes, the sovereignty of parliament was established by the civil war. Parliament has precedence over a royal prerogative. Why is May trying to overrule parliament? Why not accept the confirmation of our sovereign parliament? It is bad enough trying to claim 52% 48% as a mandate ( latest poll shows 51% 49% the other way ), but to try and bypass the elected parliament is disgusting.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Why mention a "poll"
One party had a referendum in their manifesto, that party was elected. Another party wanted to leave and beat the one most pro euro party in the popular vote.
This isn't Ireland where the electorate were forced to vote again to get the "right" answer.
Federalism is the only disgusting thing about politics - soon the shackles will be off and we won't be the last.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
No mandate Grendel
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It's the biggest mandate in British political history
Kingokings204
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree with this. Britain won't be the last to leave the EU. Denmark or Sweden next if I was a gambler.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The difference between leave and remain was 2.5% of the eligible electorate. More people didn't vote than voted either leave or remain. Its a mandate of course but its certainly not any sort of landslide.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Interesting, why do you select them? They are both countries where polling (as reliable an indicator as we have) show support for EU membership has surged since the brexit vote.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
At the time of the vote we were told that we could have access to the single market without being in the EU. We we're told that remainders saying we couldn't was part of project fear (the most childish political slogan i can remember). Now, in one of the most ridiculous twists of the whole situation, we have leavers actually quoting Donald Tusk. Fucking hell, 1984 is the most apt analogy of this situation, it's like people have no memory and will twist something to fit their own beliefs. I may be strongly remain but I've always maintained that people need to retain their objectivity. To shout 'project fear' at Tusk saying no access to the single market when you want to convince people that brexit will be easy then quote him as a source when saying 'out means out' (ffs) is the most blatant example of doublethink I've ever seen.
No it isn't. 52:48 is not a mandate for changing the future role of the UK.
The poll shows that a thin majority on any one day can evaporate on the next day. There was no conclusive result. On the day leave won. That's about it.
What's all this about the schackles will be off? You could say that the rudder will be gone. Especially if, and I mean if, they can bypass parliament. Then we are well and truly fucked.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Might take you up on that. What's your timeframe? We have regularly been told the EU is on the verge of collapse. Next 12 months?
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Ahhh yes, at least we have the leave pin ups like Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and Nigel Farage who are true men of the people and will suffer as much as the rest of the working population.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I'm off regardless, comrade.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
*some remainers
The Leave campaigners and their supporters, such as the Mail and the Express, banged on about the supremacy of British parliament and law but now they seem to have got their way, they still aren't happy.
The government's position will be revealed in the worldwide media, luckily we no longer live in the 1950s.
The death threats and abuse against those who brought about the court action is vile and should be condemned by the government. Especially considering that the government's plan was illegal. We've already had a MP shot and killed in the street, there can't be any more.
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Sick Boy
Super Moderator
We've already a MP shot dead in the street by a mentally disturbed individual who was no doubt wound up by the camapign. Do you believe that British law should no longer be followed by the government?
Marty
Well-Known Member
Of course it should be followed. The British electorate have voted and the will of the majority should be followed.
Apparently the Mail is on about one of the judges being gay. What has that got to do with anything? Does that give May the right to bypass parliament? The kipper Facebook comments include such things as 'rich bitch' referring to the woman who brought the case forward. These are the people who claim that the 'people' have spoken. Not my people. I distance myself from comments and reports in the Mail, the Express and the Sun.... these papers are disgusting ( Telegraph is not much better ). I distance myself from the dumb bastards on the UKIP site. I am British, but have nothing other than that to do with these wankers. They do not understand our history and what was actually fought for. The civil war established parliamentary sovereignty at a huge cost of life. Now these dickheads want to do away with parts of the judiciary who confirmed that parliament has sovereignty.