Holding Wasps to Account (13 Viewers)

[Skybluesince82]

I've posted on another thread about Wasps and the pies - a short sharp 'no comment' on pie-gate which to me just isn't good enough.

Just read on twitter (not sure how to post screen shots on here) Gilbert of CT fame with a quick exchange where he was asked if CT could ask Wasps about if a long-term Ricoh agreement could be developed.
His response was 'We have. They say it's not a priority for them at the moment. Previously pointed to legal action from Sisu.'

Is it just me, or is that just a let off for Wasps/ ACL (again)? Where is the scrutiny? Where is the 'investigative' journalism in the public interest that the CT keep banging on about?

I'm sure when the Ricoh deal was done somewhere it said 'it can't be to the detriment of ccfc'. Obviously that is laughable, but why is there no follow up to Wasps not having any interest in negotiations? How has it got to the fact that the football club has no home in 18 months and discussions 'aren't a priority' for wasps? Don't get me wrong, I know our owners have alienated everyone, but wasps just seem to say 'we aren't interested' or 'no comment' and that's it - end of story.

It's a rhetorical question, I know why the CT don't challenge wasps/ ACL but what do we do, just lie down and take this blatant onesidedness? How can the CT not push this any further, yet deem it newsworthy enough to highlight that CCFC have expensive pies and programmes?!!

I'm far from a Gilbert fan, as many aren't on here, but he doesn't seem to do himself many favours by coming across as so one-sided, or is this just me getting wound up by it??

 

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[eastwoodsdustman]

It'll never happen whilst the CET, Wasps and council are all bedfellows. The sooner we are out of that ground the better.

 

[shmmeee]

I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face. Wasps are under no obligation to help us out. If they don't want to work with us it's not a scandal to be investigated. What would you investigate exactly?

No one is under any obligation to help us, certain organisations have legal limits in exactly what help they can give us. The only people responsible for the club are the clubs owners and even then the only responsibility they have is to the FA, the taxman and their shareholders.

Whining that bigger boys came and snogged the girl you were thinking about asking out generally gets you laughed at.

 

[Grendel]

I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face. Wasps are under no obligation to help us out. If they don't want to work with us it's not a scandal to be investigated. What would you investigate exactly?

No one is under any obligation to help us, certain organisations have legal limits in exactly what help they can give us. The only people responsible for the club are the clubs owners and even then the only responsibility they have is to the FA, the taxman and their shareholders.

Whining that bigger boys came and snogged the girl you were thinking about asking out generally gets you laughed at.

Do you believe the council should keep its commitments?

 

[chiefdave]

Wasps are under no obligation to help us out. I

But we're told they made assurances that their arrival wouldn't have a negative impact on us so surely there is an obligation on their part.

And even if you don't believe they should be prepared to talk to the club there's still things that a local paper should be following up on. They get off far too lightly, any answer they give is taken at face value. The same standard is certainly not applied to CCFC.

For example when the subject of them taking over Higgs for their training centre came up their justification for picking it over 17 other identified sites was that it was close to the Ricoh and in the city centre - its neither yet the CT just published it without challenge. Wasps say no comment about the pies and that's it. Refuse to talk to CCFC about staying past next season and no questions are asked. No valuation on the lease despite the bond proposal stating one was due, a vague everythings fine from Wasps weeks later and thats it.

Pretty hard to defend that as high quality journalism. Not to mention if anything like the above is pointed out you, at best, get a sarcastic response.

 

[wince]

Whining that bigger boys came and snogged the girl you were thinking about asking out generally gets you laughed at

Top post lol, Sorry but you have to forget about ccfc while sisu are here , go if you want , stay away if you want, but don't blame anyone else for where we are the council shafted us , but sisu have had many chances to build bridges , they don't even care about there own customers ,sorry supporters, so why would wasps care about them

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I've posted on another thread about Wasps and the pies - a short sharp 'no comment' on pie-gate which to me just isn't good enough.

Just read on twitter (not sure how to post screen shots on here) Gilbert of CT fame with a quick exchange where he was asked if CT could ask Wasps about if a long-term Ricoh agreement could be developed.
His response was 'We have. They say it's not a priority for them at the moment. Previously pointed to legal action from Sisu.'

Is it just me, or is that just a let off for Wasps/ ACL (again)? Where is the scrutiny? Where is the 'investigative' journalism in the public interest that the CT keep banging on about?

I'm sure when the Ricoh deal was done somewhere it said 'it can't be to the detriment of ccfc'. Obviously that is laughable, but why is there no follow up to Wasps not having any interest in negotiations? How has it got to the fact that the football club has no home in 18 months and discussions 'aren't a priority' for wasps? Don't get me wrong, I know our owners have alienated everyone, but wasps just seem to say 'we aren't interested' or 'no comment' and that's it - end of story.

It's a rhetorical question, I know why the CT don't challenge wasps/ ACL but what do we do, just lie down and take this blatant onesidedness? How can the CT not push this any further, yet deem it newsworthy enough to highlight that CCFC have expensive pies and programmes?!!

I'm far from a Gilbert fan, as many aren't on here, but he doesn't seem to do himself many favours by coming across as so one-sided, or is this just me getting wound up by it??

Imagine you're renting a room out in your house. The only person that comes in for it turns out to be the guy who, after what you consider to be a minor shunt in the car, is taking you to court to sue for personal injury. Would you be willing to let him the room? Or would you tell him to sod off unless he drops his court case.
That's the sort of 'negotiation' you would not want to get involved in. That's how at least on the surface it appears Wasps are approaching things.

...onwards & upwards PUSB

 

[Otis]

But we're told they made assurances that their arrival wouldn't have a negative impact on us so surely there is an obligation on their part.

And the council should have made sure there was caveat in place within the Ricoh deal agreement that protected Coventry City's right to continue to play at the Ricoh and enjoy the benefits of match day revenue.

 

[theferret]

I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face. Wasps are under no obligation to help us out. If they don't want to work with us it's not a scandal to be investigated. What would you investigate exactly?

No one is under any obligation to help us, certain organisations have legal limits in exactly what help they can give us. The only people responsible for the club are the clubs owners and even then the only responsibility they have is to the FA, the taxman and their shareholders.

Whining that bigger boys came and snogged the girl you were thinking about asking out generally gets you laughed at.

There is no obligation as such to do anything, but perhaps there is a moral obligation. They did after all pick up a huge lesiure complex for next to nothing, one that was built for the football club, and which with absolute certainty would not exist if it were not for CCFC.

Of course, the club's problems and all the history has nothing to do with them and of course they will focus on their own interests first and foremost. That said, I do think (without bending over backwards) they can at least give the impression of being a little more accommodating. We're not exactly a nuisance to them, given that more people attend football games at the Ricoh every year than they do Rugby. You'd think, publicly at least, they'd make more of an effort to appear as though they'd like the club to thrive and succeed and that they're open to discussions about an extension.

Nobody knows what is going on behind the scenes, or what the true relationship is, I get that. Perhaps there is stuff we don't know about.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You'd think, publicly at least, they'd make more of an effort to appear as though they'd like the club to thrive and succeed and that they're open to discussions about an extension.

Why?

If I were Wasps I'd be bloody delighted if the football club bogged off to Bogota (or Balsall Common).

 

[AJB1983]

Why is it not good enough?
Surely making no comment in public is the sensible thing to do, rather than tit for tat statements that ccfc/sisu seem to relish.

 

[sb84]

if I had a customer threatening legal action (again) after different versions of the threat already having failed, and then same customer ordered more goods before paying for what they have already had I don't think I would be too keen to deal with them or help them out in any way.

 

[Skybluesince82]

I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face. Wasps are under no obligation to help us out. If they don't want to work with us it's not a scandal to be investigated. What would you investigate exactly?

I disagree. As Chief Dave says there were supposedly assurances made during the purchase that it wouldn't negatively impact CCFC. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not saying that it's everyone else's fault and it's poor old CCFC.

Legal obligation? Who knows what form those assurances were made about the impact on CCFC. Moral obligation? I would say so. Wasps are a good PR machine, but not when it comes to CCFC and no one seems to pick this up and challenge it.

As far as the analogy with the room renting? I'm not thick, I get the predicament, I don't need it spelling out to me. The frustration comes (as I said) in the fact Wasps say on several fronts no comment, or not interested and that is the end of that.

 

[M&B Stand]

I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face. Wasps are under no obligation to help us out. If they don't want to work with us it's not a scandal to be investigated. What would you investigate exactly?

Whining that bigger boys came and snogged the girl you were thinking about asking out generally gets you laughed at.

By bigger you mean fat rugger buggers? You'll have people hashtag offended all over the place with analogies like that.

The wasps franchise v The City isn't even close in terms of history and importance to the people of Coventry.

 

[theferret]

Why?

If I were Wasps I'd be bloody delighted if the football club bogged off to Bogota (or Balsall Common).

Because they are still in the process of trying to win hearts and minds in a city where many people are cynical and sceptical of their presence, and also where a large number of people care about the football club. Looking at it from their side, and given the sour taste that was left by the AH move (for some at least), I'd have thought it would be sensible from their point of view to keep the football supporters on side - something they could do without making huge concessions.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Because they are still in the process of trying to win hearts and minds in a city where many people are cynical and sceptical of their presence

Alas, very few seem to care about the football club, and of those that don't care, a fair few confuse SISU being shafted with the consequence for the club.

Not sure that we are at all relevant in their hearts and minds quest tbh... and sadly. Used to think differently, but the sheer apathy speaks otherwise.

 

[covman]

But we're told they made assurances that their arrival wouldn't have a negative impact on us so surely there is an obligation on their part.

And even if you don't believe they should be prepared to talk to the club there's still things that a local paper should be following up on. They get off far too lightly, any answer they give is taken at face value. The same standard is certainly not applied to CCFC.

For example when the subject of them taking over Higgs for their training centre came up their justification for picking it over 17 other identified sites was that it was close to the Ricoh and in the city centre - its neither yet the CT just published it without challenge. Wasps say no comment about the pies and that's it. Refuse to talk to CCFC about staying past next season and no questions are asked. No valuation on the lease despite the bond proposal stating one was due, a vague everythings fine from Wasps weeks later and thats it.

Pretty hard to defend that as high quality journalism. Not to mention if anything like the above is pointed out you, at best, get a sarcastic response.

Have you considered that they might be saying no comment to benefit CCFC. Perhaps they don't want to embarrass them about why they no longer provide the food for them?

 

[Hobo]

How much do Wasps need us?
How well has Fisher et al been negotiating (their record isn't good).

Yes CCFC is dear to our hearts, but I can't help feeling SISU has parked us in an estuary and let the tide go out.

I am more annoyed at people who do things badly rather than people who do things seemingly well.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I am more annoyed at people who do things badly rather than people who do things seemingly well.

Must be bloody pissed off at Wasps then, given their incompetence in achieving their stated aim of a ground in London.

 

[theferret]

Alas, very few seem to care about the football club, and of those that don't care, a fair few confuse SISU being shafted with the consequence for the club.

Not sure that we are at all relevant in their hearts and minds quest tbh... and sadly. Used to think differently, but the sheer apathy speaks otherwise.

You know as well as I do that there is huge latent support for the club. It is still the city's most important cultural asset. We've seen (going back a long way I know) the impact the club can have - 250,000 on the streets after the cup final and all that. Nothing else in this city has the power to move the people the way the football club can. People underestimate that. Yes, people have drifted away, there may be a lost generation, but people still care. For every city fan who I know who attends games i could name 10 who don't. Tragic, but they're still there. It would only take something as shitty as a Checkatrade Trophy final and you'd have people in sleeping bags on the BPA car park.

It does matter, and I think we do ourselves a disservice when we declare that the affinity has gone and people don't care. We're not dead yet. On life support but not dead. Sadly, when you get fans of CCFC declaring that the club doesn't matter, then perhaps it is all over. Call me an optimist, but I still think this is recoverable once SISU have gone. We can rise again, and when we do, it will be glorious.

 

[joemercersaces]

I am astonished at how lightly Wasps' part in our demise is taken. I wonder what the reaction would have been if, say Fulham, had slipped in on the blind side and taken over the ground built for us, then the academy intended for us. Yes I know SISU largely got what they deserved but CCFC were totally shafted by a combination of Coventry City Council and a London rugby club. And we have a rugby club here already, one with a fine tradition capable before the wasp infestation of restoring the glory days in time but probably not now.

I am amazed that some Cov fans love Wasps and give them money. Maybe they'll volunteer to help them repainted the seats black and yellow in 18 months and take down any CCFC pictures or signs.

 

[AJB1983]

Leaving aside the fact that ccfc no longer have the option of owning the Ricoh outright (which ultimately is their own fault for not taking up the option or acting in a right and proper manner in negotiations), what exactly have wasps done that has been detrimental to ccfc since they've been involved?

 

[Skybluesince82]

How about the Academy at the Higgs as a starter for 10?

 

[AJB1983]

CCFC's fault, no?
They said they were going to look for a new site, didn't extend current deal, took legal action against the charity that owned it, but its Wasps fault for choosing what will be a vacant facility?

 

[theferret]

Leaving aside the fact that ccfc no longer have the option of owning the Ricoh outright (which ultimately is their own fault for not taking up the option or acting in a right and proper manner in negotiations), what exactly have wasps done that has been detrimental to ccfc since they've been involved?

There's a couple of things you can point to. Opting to go for the AHC when they had explored 17 other options seemed a little questionable. The second was stopping the Ricoh negotiations citing legal action against a 3rd party. If there was concern that they may be drawn into future legal battles (which is legitimate), why not insert a clause into whatever agreement was drawn up that rendered it null and void in the event legal action was taken against them? Their refusal to speak to the club, and the reasons for it, is odd imo. No reason why they could not have continued talking at least, unless there is stuff we don't know about. I don't pretend to know the real motivations of anyone involved.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

You know as well as I do that there is huge latent support for the club. It is still the city's most important cultural asset. We've seen (going back a long way I know) the impact the club can have - 250,000 on the streets after the cup final and all that. Nothing else in this city has the power to move the people the way the football club can. People underestimate that. Yes, people have drifted away, there may be a lost generation, but people still care. For every city fan who I know who attends games i could name 10 who don't. Tragic, but they're still there. It would only take something as shitty as a Checkatrade Trophy final and you'd have people in sleeping bags on the BPA car park.

It does matter, and I think we do ourselves a disservice when we declare that the affinity has gone and people don't care. We're not dead yet. On life support but not dead. Sadly, when you get fans of CCFC declaring that the club doesn't matter, then perhaps it is all over. Call me an optimist, but I still think this is recoverable once SISU have gone. We can rise again, and when we do, it will be glorious.

But they don't care atm, and that's the point.

Ideal chance for Wasps to rid themselves of a competitor.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I've posted on another thread about Wasps and the pies - a short sharp 'no comment' on pie-gate which to me just isn't good enough.

Just read on twitter (not sure how to post screen shots on here) Gilbert of CT fame with a quick exchange where he was asked if CT could ask Wasps about if a long-term Ricoh agreement could be developed.
His response was 'We have. They say it's not a priority for them at the moment. Previously pointed to legal action from Sisu.'

Is it just me, or is that just a let off for Wasps/ ACL (again)? Where is the scrutiny? Where is the 'investigative' journalism in the public interest that the CT keep banging on about?

I'm sure when the Ricoh deal was done somewhere it said 'it can't be to the detriment of ccfc'. Obviously that is laughable, but why is there no follow up to Wasps not having any interest in negotiations? How has it got to the fact that the football club has no home in 18 months and discussions 'aren't a priority' for wasps? Don't get me wrong, I know our owners have alienated everyone, but wasps just seem to say 'we aren't interested' or 'no comment' and that's it - end of story.

It's a rhetorical question, I know why the CT don't challenge wasps/ ACL but what do we do, just lie down and take this blatant onesidedness? How can the CT not push this any further, yet deem it newsworthy enough to highlight that CCFC have expensive pies and programmes?!!

I'm far from a Gilbert fan, as many aren't on here, but he doesn't seem to do himself many favours by coming across as so one-sided, or is this just me getting wound up by it??

The CT know which side their bread is buttered. CCFC don't spend much on advertising whereas Wasps do.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I'll keep saying this until I'm blue in the face. Wasps are under no obligation to help us out. If they don't want to work with us it's not a scandal to be investigated. What would you investigate exactly?

No one is under any obligation to help us, certain organisations have legal limits in exactly what help they can give us. The only people responsible for the club are the clubs owners and even then the only responsibility they have is to the FA, the taxman and their shareholders.

Whining that bigger boys came and snogged the girl you were thinking about asking out generally gets you laughed at.

What about all the drivel from the council about no detriment to CCFC?

 

[joemercersaces]

The CCFC/Cov RFC baked meats will coldly furnish forth the Wasps/CCC marriage table, gleefully reported by the Telegraph and BBC CWR

 

[1940oldfive]

And the council should have made sure there was caveat in place within the Ricoh deal agreement that protected Coventry City's right to continue to play at the Ricoh and enjoy the benefits of match day revenue.

did we not sell the rights to the beer and pie money some time ago?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Because they are still in the process of trying to win hearts and minds in a city where many people are cynical and sceptical of their presence, and also where a large number of people care about the football club. Looking at it from their side, and given the sour taste that was left by the AH move (for some at least), I'd have thought it would be sensible from their point of view to keep the football supporters on side - something they could do without making huge concessions.

The people of Coventry not really that bothered are they? Coventry is one of the most apathetic places in the country (election turnouts and constantly returning hopeless councillors and MPs show you that).

 

[italiahorse]

CCFC/SISU Management know exactly what they have to do to get a long term deal.
CCFC will be offered a short term deal (on Wasps terms) when the current short term deal ends.
We all want the legals to finish so we can move on and so do Wasps. What's the issue?

 

[Hobo]

Must be bloody pissed off at Wasps then, given their incompetence in achieving their stated aim of a ground in London.

No they mean nothing to me. I don't care whether they do well or fail. But I won't let them distract me from how poorly our club has been run. I live in the hope someone will turn things round.

 

[Grendel]

CCFC/SISU Management know exactly what they have to do to get a long term deal.
CCFC will be offered a short term deal (on Wasps terms) when the current short term deal ends.
We all want the legals to finish so we can move on and so do Wasps. What's the issue?

As I understand it a long term deal has been offered.

 

[withnail]

Do London Wasps get the takings from food and drink bought at the Ricoh onCov match days?
I need to know once and for all.
I really fancied a pint before the game yesterday but then I thought London Wasps are likely to pocket the profit so I gave it a miss and took that injury time kick in the balls stone cold sober.