Message to seppala and fisher (61 Viewers)

[RegTheDonk]

It's not bollocks though is it. Fans shouldn't abandon their football club because of the owners. We'd be in a much better position to achieve success if half of the Wembley crew turned up most weeks.

I'd be 100% with you Faz on that, but this is a SISU controlled football club we are talking about. They moved the goal posts last year when we were putting more bums on seats than were told was vital. I'm not accusing them of taking any money out of the club, but if half the Wembley crew did turn up most weeks, what guarantee would there be that money would be invested? Probably wouldn't give them any excuse to sell anyone though, I suppose.

 

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[OffenhamSkyBlue]

But bear in mind what an arsehole they have as their owner, and the changes he has tried to make to their history. Not far off SISU on the hated owners league table

 

[skybluetony176]

A club with a similar following to us and a city with an almost exact population which is why there stadium is perfect.
Our average attendances next year could well be 4K-6k

I think Coventry has about 50K more. You also have to consider Warwickshire though which has a population of over half a million and CCFC enjoys strong followings from places like Nuneaton, Bedworth, Leamington and Warwick especially. Hull is surrounded by fields and sea, the next nearest town that you could compare to the neighboring towns of Coventry is Scunthorpe who have there own football club so I doubt they have much of a following there.

Coventry enjoys a good demographic to tap in and it already does to some extent but the potential is not exploited.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

I think Coventry has about 50K more. You also have to consider Warwickshire though which has a population of over half a million and CCFC enjoys strong followings from places like Nuneaton, Bedworth, Leamington and Warwick especially. Hull is surrounded by fields and sea, the next nearest town that you could compare to the neighboring towns of Coventry is Scunthorpe who have there own football club so I doubt they have much of a following there.

Coventry enjoys a good demographic to tap in and it already does to some extent but the potential is not exploited.

Agree... the one asset the "club" has is its fan base and potential as a one team city/county(+/-).

 

[skybluebeduff]

I think Coventry has about 50K more. You also have to consider Warwickshire though which has a population of over half a million and CCFC enjoys strong followings from places like Nuneaton, Bedworth, Leamington and Warwick especially. Hull is surrounded by fields and sea, the next nearest town that you could compare to the neighboring towns of Coventry is Scunthorpe who have there own football club so I doubt they have much of a following there.

Coventry enjoys a good demographic to tap in and it already does to some extent but the potential is not exploited.

Hull still have plenty of fans in their surrounding area's, plenty come from Bridlington, Scarborough and the many many towns and villages which surround them like Driffield, Wet Wang, Hornsea e.c.t but they do have to compete with Leeds too.

 

[Grendel]

I think Coventry has about 50K more. You also have to consider Warwickshire though which has a population of over half a million and CCFC enjoys strong followings from places like Nuneaton, Bedworth, Leamington and Warwick especially. Hull is surrounded by fields and sea, the next nearest town that you could compare to the neighboring towns of Coventry is Scunthorpe who have there own football club so I doubt they have much of a following there.

Coventry enjoys a good demographic to tap in and it already does to some extent but the potential is not exploited.

Yet we haven't had an average of 23,000 fans (including away fans) for 39 years.....

 

[Super Graham Withey]

Yet we haven't had an average of 23,000 fans (including away fans) for 39 years.....

And neither have we averaged 4,000 as Hull regularly did in the 1990's

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

It is blatantly obvious that our owners business model over the past 10 years has failed to add any value to the asset. On a performance point of view they've overseen a demotion from the 2nd tier to the 4th tier of English football, so another failure on that count. Therefore, anyone defending their tenure is deluded.
The fan base ....or customer as TF might refer to us.....are far more likely to attend/buy if the product is good. Which continued sales of key players ensures that it isn't.
It's clear that our owners don't have the ability to deliver a sound investment strategy, as their record when they did invest was poor AND now have no intention to deliver fresh investment. Therefore, anyone still defending their position needs to seek counselling support for their condition.

 

[Grendel]

It is blatantly obvious that our owners business model over the past 10 years has failed to add any value to the asset. On a performance point of view they've overseen a demotion from the 2nd tier to the 4th tier of English football, so another failure on that count. Therefore, anyone defending their tenure is deluded.
The fan base ....or customer as TF might refer to us.....are far more likely to attend/buy if the product is good. Which continued sales of key players ensures that it isn't.
It's clear that our owners don't have the ability to deliver a sound investment strategy, as their record when they did invest was poor AND now have no intention to deliver fresh investment. Therefore, anyone still defending their position needs to seek counselling support for their condition.

Whose defending anything? Why in the 80's when we enjoyed 4 seasons of consequitine top half finishes did we not improve attendances at all?

Why when relegated from the premier league and having enjoyed top 6 all through October to March in the championship did gates slump by 24%? How does that compare to clubs like forest and Norwich!

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Yet we haven't had an average of 23,000 fans (including away fans) for 39 years.....

Agree with you but another fact I noticed when looking back is in the last 57 years only 7 times ( if you include this one) have attendances less than 12000 and our owner have been in charge for over half of them , hence the reason they think the 12000 is all they need shows their ambition.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Who?

Go on be like Garypendrys eyes and say there's loads out there when there isn't.

Not sure where you are getting that from. There are a handful of mouthy Sisu apologists on here, who have for years attacked anyone holding Sisu responsible, who have deflected and pointed at anyone but the owners of the business for catastrophic failures on and off the pitch over the last 10 years. Why do they do it? I suspect mainly because they simply cant face up to the fact they got it badly wrong. They just keep on digging, trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[Grendel]

Not sure where you are getting that from. There are a handful of mouthy Sisu apologists on here, who have for years attacked anyone holding Sisu responsible, who have deflected and pointed at anyone but the owners of the business for catastrophic failures on and off the pitch over the last 10 years. Why do they do it? I suspect mainly because they simply cant face up to the fact they got it badly wrong. They just keep on digging, trying to defend the indefensible.

Would you start attending then if sisu left?

 

[skybluetony176]

Yet we haven't had an average of 23,000 fans (including away fans) for 39 years.....

And that has what to do with the demographic that CCFC operates in? The reason we haven't had an average of 23K for what ever period of time is not down to the demographic and therefore potential fan base of CCFC. It's down to persistent failure bar two Wembley trips in every aspect of the club.

Fact is CCFC has a far better demographic than many many other clubs who attract more paying customers. Hull included.

 

[Grendel]

And that has what to do with the demographic that CCFC operates in? The reason we haven't had an average of 23K for what ever period of time is not down to the demographic and therefore potential fan base of CCFC. It's down to persistent failure bar two Wembley trips in every aspect of the club.

Fact is CCFC has a far better demographic than many many other clubs who attract more paying customers. Hull included.

We have since 1978 22 years of top flight - 4 consequential top 10 finishes - and yet in the first season of relegation a 24% crash in attendances. Yet clubs like Nottingham forest and Norwich never had such crashes.

In one season in the first division we were in the top 3 until March but gates increased by less than 5%

Why?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Fact is CCFC has a far better demographic than many many other clubs who attract more paying customers. Hull included.

CCFC's demographic would be the fans who already go. Do you mean Cov & Warwickshire's demographic? If so, why is it any better than Hull or anywhere else?

 

[skybluetony176]

Whose defending anything? Why in the 80's when we enjoyed 4 seasons of consequitine top half finishes did we not improve attendances at all?

Why when relegated from the premier league and having enjoyed top 6 all through October to March in the championship did gates slump by 24%? How does that compare to clubs like forest and Norwich!

Haven't Forests gates just slumped by a few thousand over the last year? I have a mate who's an avid Forest supporter he recons it's going to slump again next season as the fan base has lost hope. Sounds familiar.

 

[Brylowes]

A club with a similar following to us and a city with an almost exact population which is why there stadium is perfect.
Our average attendances next year could well be 4K-6k

But that's because of where we are as a club, not who we are as a club.

 

[oldskyblue58]

interesting that Bournemouth is mentioned. Their average attendance record makes interesting reading

England historical attendance and performance

In recent history then I think it is only the year we were at Sixfields that they have bettered us. Usually they have been well short of the CCFC average. When their really hard times came 1997 & 2009 under 5000 each year.

Fans engagement, which is what is really being queried, is a two sided thing. The engagement at CCFC has been poor for a long time, and you cannot simply lay that at the feet of "fickle" fans. Some will go whatever, others seek a reward from the experience. Success even stature of a club is not necessarily dependent on how many fans go, it is far more complicated than that. Success can be achieved on pretty low fan numbers it would seem

the ccfc numbers are here
England historical attendance and performance

 

[skybluetony176]

We have since 1978 22 years of top flight - 4 consequential top 10 finishes - and yet in the first season of relegation a 24% crash in attendances. Yet clubs like Nottingham forest and Norwich never had such crashes.

In one season in the first division we were in the top 3 until March but gates increased by less than 5%

Why?

Forest also had many more years of sequential top 10 finishes as well as well as winning domestic and European cups. Try comparing eggs with eggs. In fact in 78 they averaged 32K and they're now averaging less than 20K despite being higher up the pyramid than us and had substantially more success than us to build a fan base in the first place. You're kind of losing your own argument here.

Norwich finished 3rd in the top flight in the 92/93 season and averaged 16K. Their groundswell of support has been based on success and the other thing that we've failed to tap into which is the resurgence in watching football that has led to attendances swelling nationally.

 

[ccfc92]

Didn't we also miss the inflated attendances after we got relegated from the Prem? Pretty certain attendances overall went up from the mid 00's to now. Also, similar patterns in the championship.

 

[shmmeee]

So, if it's the fans fault, why have we not attracted new fans as people are born/move to the area? "The fans" isn't a set group of people, it's everyone living in our catchment area.

What is it about living in Coventry & Warwickshire that makes someone less likely to watch live football?

In what business do people blame lack of success on the customer base?

It's the same as the "breaking even" argument. It's like blaming the pitch, every club exists in the same market with the same rules.

 

[shmmeee]

BTW

Sequential = one after the other

Consequential = important or happening because of a cause

 

[Astute]

Think this thread is just going to be a gathering of frothy shouty people who don't bother by the looks of it.

Just need Captain Dart and Jack on board and then Peeler to get upset somebody mentioned Wasps and it's a full house.

Can you explain one thing Nick?

You are one of those out of a fair few that seems to deflect attention away from SISU and onto anyone else. The best post by far on this thread has been made by OSB. As usual he says it how it is. Why is it that all of those that love to deflect attention away from SISU and onto someone else...even onto us supporters....have totally ignored his post in every way?

 

[skybluetony176]

BTW

Sequential = one after the other

Consequential = important or happening because of a cause

Edited. I must have fell into the trap of assuming Grendull knows what he's talking about. That will learn me

 

[Astute]

The notion that anyone "supports" Sisu is just abject nonsense. Why would anyone support an anonymous Hedge Fund - its an absurd notion.

The issue is that a large percentage of people do not see any evidence they are going anywhere. No protest is proving in the slightest bit effective. The stats I have shown above indicate that actually their impact as owners per se is irrelevant. Trends are similar before and after
When I was a student there was this obsession with people protesting against Barclays Bank for funding S Africa and apartheid. So were the protesters trying to stop apartheid or the Bank. What was the point?

Some fans believe Sisu will stay until they want to leave. Yes new owners are needed and yes if there are any around should be encouraged. Mediation of parties is needed.

However just because people don't snarl, swear, make jokes about Seppella have male genitals, wishing Fisher dead doesn't mean they son't support the club and it certainly doesn't mean anyone supports sisu

No one does.

Yet if someone doesn't have a go at CCC as much as you would like you call them a council lover or similar. Yet nothing to do with double standards I suppose.

 

[Nick]

Can you explain one thing Nick?

You are one of those out of a fair few that seems to deflect attention away from SISU and onto anyone else. The best post by far on this thread has been made by OSB. As usual he says it how it is. Why is it that all of those that love to deflect attention away from SISU and onto someone else...even onto us supporters....have totally ignored his post in every way?

I haven't ignored it, I have only just seen it and read it.

Because I agree with him about Fan Engagement, which is why I've made many posts and threads saying how dog shit communication is. There was another long thread saying how I would do things differently which was mainly around engaging with fans and the community. There is a decent thread here based on Fan Engagement and what people would do differently - You're the chairman , there is another one here What needs to be done now

Still, it must be deflecting because I didn't just shout SISU out and thought about it and posted something constructive.

 

[Astute]

Yet we haven't had an average of 23,000 fans (including away fans) for 39 years.....

And a capacity that meant that every seat at every game at HR in the home and away end would have to be sold to get them averages you say about for most of them years.

What were the averages at a lower level for us at the Ricoh before SISU and what have they been since? And you can leave Northampton out of it.

 

[Astute]

I haven't ignored it, I have only just seen it and read it.

Because I agree with him about Fan Engagement, which is why I've made many posts and threads saying how dog shit communication is. There was another long thread saying how I would do things differently which was mainly around engaging with fans and the community. There is a decent thread here based on Fan Engagement and what people would do differently - You're the chairman , there is another one here What needs to be done now

Still, it must be deflecting because I didn't just shout SISU out and thought about it and posted something constructive.

Only just seen it? You saw every other post. And it was the longest one so hard to miss.

 

[Nick]

interesting that Bournemouth is mentioned. Their average attendance record makes interesting reading

England historical attendance and performance

In recent history then I think it is only the year we were at Sixfields that they have bettered us. Usually they have been well short of the CCFC average. When their really hard times came 1997 & 2009 under 5000 each year.

Fans engagement, which is what is really being queried, is a two sided thing. The engagement at CCFC has been poor for a long time, and you cannot simply lay that at the feet of "fickle" fans. Some will go whatever, others seek a reward from the experience. Success even stature of a club is not necessarily dependent on how many fans go, it is far more complicated than that. Success can be achieved on pretty low fan numbers it would seem

the ccfc numbers are here
England historical attendance and performance

Bournemouth and low fan numbers is a bit of a different one though isn't it? Especially when they have billionaires who will pay £600k to loan Kenwyne Jones and then pay him 36K a week in the championship.

They probably aren't the most realistic examples, although it would be nice to have a billionaire who would never want a penny back if it went wrong.

 

[italiahorse]

All very good except I have ended up with the club I don't deserve idiot

Yes 50 years an idiot and I'm still going.
If people give Sisu air then they will just carry on doing the same.
I'll have a go at anybody that gives them a positive post.

 

[italiahorse]

Who?

Go on be like Garypendrys eyes and say there's loads out there when there isn't.

Didnt say there were loads but there are certainly a few.

 

[italiahorse]

FOR FUCKS SAKE HOW MUCH FUCKING LONGER ARE GOING TO FUCKING MOAN ABOUT SIXFIELDS.

We aren't there anymore, lets look at here and now, and how to get rid of SISU.

It's a key point on this thread explaining one of the biggest reasons we can't compete with the likes of Sheffield United.
Grendel likes your post so you might want to review it ?

 

[italiahorse]

In which case supporting CCFC would mean not going to Wasps.

Make your mind up.

I'll persist ....
Not going to Sixfields helped bring CCFC back.
How will not going to Wasps help CCFC ?

 

[Nick]

I'll persist ....
Not going to Sixfields helped bring CCFC back.
How will not going to Wasps help CCFC ?

Do you have any proof not going helped? Especially as the other day you said they only came back because of Wasps?

How does Wasps being here help CCFC?

 

[Esoterica]

I'll persist ....
Not going to Sixfields helped bring CCFC back.
How will not going to Wasps help CCFC ?

It's hard to take anything you argue seriously when you have a personal financial interest in people going to Wasps games.