Rumour: Hoffman and Elliot takeover negotiations (37 Viewers)

[Nick]

I asked you last night, and I'll ask you again, what would you have said would be a legit/reasonable bid?

I don't think £500k is reasonable, but on the other hand, the club (minus Ryton) is effectively worthless so £500k for something worth nothing isn't as much a joke as people are making out.

Surely Ben Stevenson and Willis are worth more than 500k? Imagine if we sold them both together for that? What happens if Ponticelli goes to Villa tomorrow for 500k?

First offer I'd have gone about £5m, but again it depends on the debt / terms / Ryton. If they are bidding to include Ryton then it will go up.

 

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[robbiekeane]

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Really? I didn't think they were that lucrative a deal? Hence people like derby not too fussed about it

 

[skybluetony176]

To be fair, Wasps are an important piece of the puzzle, as much as we'd like them to be out of the picture.

They are but like all puzzles there's an order to do it. Wasps aren't important at this stage and won't be until an offer for the club has been accepted. Then they become very important given that we have no right to play at the Ricoh after next season. But lets get the horse ready before we attach the cart.

 

[idm1975]

Who honestly thinks a reported 500k bid for a club worth fuck all is derisory?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I'd question how effective this whole public stir will be

Any bid conducted through the media will scare SISU off and make them dig their heels in - surely we've learned that much?!?

 

[chiefdave]

Where?

He (David Armstrong - Wasps Chief Exec) added that the he saw Wasps as a real estate business “with a rugby bit stuck on”.

He said: ”We see a significant opportunity in the immediate area around us and want up to two further hotels and more retail space on site.

 

[Nick]

They are but like all puzzles there's an order to do it. Wasps aren't important at this stage and won't be until an offer for the club has been accepted. Then they become very important given that we have no right to play at the Ricoh after next season. But lets get the horse ready before we attach the cart.

Would you think Hoffman has spoken to Wasps regarding the offer?

I remember before when people asked Michael if he had spoken to ACL about the rent deal you didn't like that either.

 

[robbiekeane]

Who honestly thinks a reported 500k bid for a club worth fuck all is derisory?

It's not about what we value it at.

 

[Grendel]

Who honestly thinks a reported 500k bid for a club worth fuck all is derisory?

As long as they take all the debts clearly not.

 

[Nick]

Who honestly thinks a reported 500k bid for a club worth fuck all is derisory?

Again, it depends on the offer doesn't it?

The last one was for the club to be debt free, so is this £500k debt free?

 

[ccfc92]

Surely Ben Stevenson and Willis are worth more than 500k? Imagine if we sold them both together for that? What happens if Ponticelli goes to Villa tomorrow for 500k?

First offer I'd have gone about £5m, but again it depends on the debt / terms / Ryton. If they are bidding to include Ryton then it will go up.

You're right, them players are worth something, but that doesn't mean the club is? Especially with whatever debt we are in, despite being "debt free".

Regarding £5mill, like you say depending on what debt is written off and Ryton etc, I reckon between £5-10mill will swing it IMO (just a guess)

 

[hutch1972]

The thing is, none of us are even remotely qualified to make a fair assessment (an actual monetary value) on what we're worth as a football club.

As a football club we are worth diddly squat, but as a vehicle to hide and shuffle around debt, we are worth millions to sisu.

 

[ccfc92]

The only real estate we have though, is Ryton?

 

[ccfc92]

As long as they take all the debts clearly not.

Do we have a rough figure for the debts?

 

[win9nut]

Anyone else find themselves staring at this?

 

[Nick]

You're right, them players are worth something, but that doesn't mean the club is? Especially with whatever debt we are in, despite being "debt free".

Regarding £5mill, like you say depending on what debt is written off and Ryton etc, I reckon between £5-10mill will swing it IMO (just a guess)

Yes, but if they want it debt free like they did before then they will get everything at the club with £0 debt.

Then it depends on Ryton and if that's included.

 

[ccfc92]

Yes, but if they want it debt free like they did before then they will get everything at the club with £0 debt.

Then it depends on Ryton and if that's included.

I suppose that's the key part, what state do they want the club in for what they're bidding.

Do we have a rough figure for the debts? £30mill?

 

[Nick]

I suppose that's the key part, what state do they want the club in for what they're bidding.

Do we have a rough figure for the debts? £30mill?

I think OSB saw it was about £30m for actual debts, £70m odd for what they think bang on about.

This is why people need more info, imagine if they are offering £500k for the club and letting SISU have Ryton and offer to buy the debt for £50m.

On the other hand they could be offering £500k for the club, ryton and the debt completely wiped.

 

[skybluetony176]

Surely Ben Stevenson and Willis are worth more than 500k? Imagine if we sold them both together for that? What happens if Ponticelli goes to Villa tomorrow for 500k?

First offer I'd have gone about £5m, but again it depends on the debt / terms / Ryton. If they are bidding to include Ryton then it will go up.

Presumably then using that logic our entire squad when SISU bought us was worth a quid? Didn't Dowie win a manager of the month award with that squad? Not bad seeing as it was only worth a quid.

 

[robbiekeane]

Presumably then using that logic our entire squad when SISU bought us was worth a quid? Didn't Dowie win a manager of the month award with that squad? Not bad seeing as it was only worth a quid.

Don't be idiotic. They took on the debt which was worth how much?

 

[Nick]

Presumably then using that logic our entire squad when SISU bought us was worth a quid? Didn't Dowie win a manager of the month award with that squad? Not bad seeing as it was only worth a quid.

Didn't they also work out a deal for some of the debt?

Why would somebody sell something for £500k and wipe debts away when potentially there is an asset in there worth more than that? What would they get if they were to liquidate and sell everything off?

 

[ccfc92]

I think OSB saw it was about £30m for actual debts, £70m odd for what they think bang on about.

This is why people need more info, imagine if they are offering £500k for the club and letting SISU have Ryton and offer to buy the debt for £50m.

On the other hand they could be offering £500k for the club, ryton and the debt completely wiped.

I thought we were "debt free" not long ago? Or is that to external creditors?

If I was Hoffman or whoever is bidding, the club needs a new lease of life to survive so I'd offer around £5-10mill for the lot, CCFC, Ryton etc, with no debts. Then maybe put in a Prem promotion we would pay SISU £30 million or something, to sweeten the deal.

The club needs to have a £0 bank balance if it's to have a new lease of life IMO. Someone taking over with -£30,000,000 won't help us.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I think £5-10M is what it will take. You expect potential offers to start low but £500k is a bit of a worry. DO they have the funds for what sisu would take?

 

[idm1975]

I'd take that fucking nutjob from north korea over these clowns.

 

[Nick]

I thought we were "debt free" not long ago? Or is that to external creditors?

If I was Hoffman or whoever is bidding, the club needs a new lease of life to survive so I'd offer around £5-10mill for the lot, CCFC, Ryton etc, with no debts. Then maybe put in a Prem promotion we would pay SISU £30 million or something, to sweeten the deal.

The club needs to have a £0 bank balance if it's to have a new lease of life IMO. Someone taking over with -£30,000,000 won't help us.

Debt free was to external people. The same as £1m profit wasn't £1m sat there in a bank account.

Hoffman bid the 50 odd k debt free before but it was before any mention of Ryton so assume it included that.

 

[Liquid Gold]

We wouldn't have all this trouble with Ryton if Mowbray hadn't made it look all fancy.

 

[martcov]

Who honestly thinks a reported 500k bid for a club worth fuck all is derisory?

Me.

 

[ccfc92]

Debt free was to external people. The same as £1m profit wasn't £1m sat there in a bank account.

Hoffman bid the 50 odd k debt free before but it was before any mention of Ryton so assume it included that.

Okay, thank you for clearing that up, I always wondered.

I think £500k is to test the waters, get some response from SISU. The line today from SISU wasn't the club isn't for sale, just they haven't received a good enough bid. That's progress IMO.

I think (mainly hope) more bids/negotiations will follow.

 

[chiefdave]

Remember Elliot was the one who wanted to close the academy. For all we know if Wasps are involved the plan could be to let SISU have Ryton, shut the academy, let Wasps pocket the naming rights and then we struggle on with Hoff and Joe running things.

That's why it is so important to know more about what is happening rather than blindly just assuming it is an improvement because its not SISU.

 

[skybluesam66]

logically there must be more to come
hoff must have known 0.5m wouldnt be accepted, so why waste his time
i suspect we will see a game of poker played out as a deal is reached

 

[Nick]

Look at it this way.

All of the debt is pretty much to them (none to HMRC etc etc), they have Ryton there with a potential £5m at least for housing, then take into consideration the players who could be sold. They have cut the costs so that it doesn't leak as much money.

They aren't going to take 500k and the debt cleared for it with Ryton also, it's like me selling my house with furniture for £100 quid mortgage free but the fridge is worth £500 on it's own.

 

[idm1975]

Me.

How much you think we are worth then?

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

I'd suggest a sweetener in the offer to pay SISU should we ever get back up to PL - that may entice them.

Yes I agree then say

If ownership was changing end of June when would you buy your ticket ?

I would

 

[Nick]

No idea if relevant.

 

[chiefdave]

then take into consideration the players who could be sold.

And money still due on players already sold and potential add ons.