Match Thread Wycombe Match Thread (20 Viewers)

[Liquid Gold]

So having a good academy is the be all and end all? Let's forget about results on the pitch then.

Are you actually suggesting our academy is hampering our progress?!?

 

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[SlowerThanPlatt]

Correct. Now can you please explain why we find ourselves in the bottom tier?

From last season?

- Poor recruitment of senior players meaning younger players had to step up.
- Selling Vincelot
- Letting Fleck go without a replacement to a divisional rival
- Bad appointment in Slade (only 1 point from relegation at the time)

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

So having a good academy is the be all and end all? Let's forget about results on the pitch then.

Didn’t say that. Your gripe is with the academy so I was comparing with a club who have put a lot more money in than us

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Are you actually suggesting our academy is hampering our progress?!?

He is.

He wants the owners to invest. Considering the owners only invest the money we generate the money they would be investing into the team would be from the young players we sell.

He then in the next post wants to shut it down which means they would have less money to invest into the first team

Don’t ask me

 

[clint van damme]

I disagree, i think he's decent at this level. Better than Stokes this season for me.

Stokes has been poor. I'm a big fan of his so hopeful he'll regain his old form but he's struggling at the minute and I think Robins is right to play Haynes ahead of him.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

From last season?

- Poor recruitment of senior players meaning younger players had to step up.
- Selling Vincelot
- Letting Fleck go without a replacement to a divisional rival
- Bad appointment in Slade (only 1 point from relegation at the time)

Oh and selling Sordell when he was our top scorer replacing him with Reilly and Beavon

 

[JWC]

Stokes has been poor. I'm a big fan of his so hopeful he'll regain his old form but he's struggling at the minute and I think Robins is right to play Haynes ahead of him.

Yeah, not sure what has happened with him this season. I'm generally a fan and have seen him play way better at a higher level. Hopefully he can pick it up again.

 

[Otis]

Haynes was quality on Tuesday. Obviously got forward well, as we kind of take for granted with him but also defensively he was rock solid.

Very surprised to hear this, because to my mind, despite all his qualities, he has never been rock solid defensively and it's always been that part of his game that has let him down.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I'm no fan of Haynes, but he's been great the last couple of games. Offers that extra bit going forward and Stokes is out of sorts so I'd definitely keep him in for Lincoln.

 

[Otis]

Don't get me wrong, I'm delighted if he IS playing well.

Long may it continue.

 

[clint van damme]

Very surprised to hear this, because to my mind, despite all his qualities, he has never been rock solid defensively and it's always been that part of his game that has let him down.

he lacks concentration which is a fairly big draw back for a defender. I'm not sure how easy it is to instil that into a player. But as I said, in my opinion, currently a better option than Stokes.

 

[Adge]

From last season?

- Poor recruitment of senior players meaning younger players had to step up.
- Selling Vincelot
- Letting Fleck go without a replacement to a divisional rival
- Bad appointment in Slade (only 1 point from relegation at the time)

From last season?

- Poor recruitment of senior players meaning younger players had to step up.
- Selling Vincelot
- Letting Fleck go without a replacement to a divisional rival
- Bad appointment in Slade (only 1 point from relegation at the time)

Isn’t that what I said previously? Young players having to step up but are not good enough to make that step?

 

[Adge]

Didn’t say that. Your gripe is with the academy so I was comparing with a club who have put a lot more money in than us

No my gripe is putting them in too frequently and in numbers and the results on the pitch then suffer.

 

[Adge]

Are you actually suggesting our academy is hampering our progress?!?

If we are relying on it (which it seems we are) to take us forward as a club and aim higher then yes. We need more of a balance and not let the first team be “an experiment” for academy players to sink or swim.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Isn’t that what I said previously? Young players having to step up but are not good enough to make that step?

And they had to step up because the senior players we signed/already at the club were

a) not very good
b) weren’t the players at the top of our list

Very much a secondary issue - get recruitment right which I feel we’ve done better this season they would be eased into the team like Bayliss and Shipley

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

No my gripe is putting them in too frequently and in numbers and the results on the pitch then suffer.

You said you don’t care about where players are from before

Showing your true colours now

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

If we are relying on it (which it seems we are) to take us forward as a club and aim higher then yes. We need more of a balance and not let the first team be “an experiment” for academy players to sink or swim.

Most selected team is:

Burge

Grimmer
Willis
McDonald
Stokes

Vincenti
Kelly
Doyle
Shipley

Biamou
McNulty

Which of those should be nowhere near the team?

 

[Esoterica]

If we are relying on it (which it seems we are) to take us forward as a club and aim higher then yes. We need more of a balance and not let the first team be “an experiment” for academy players to sink or swim.

Our team and subs used from the opening game of the season, before Andreu was signed.
Coventry City XI: O'Brien, Grimmer, Hyam, McDonald, Stokes, Kelly, Doyle (C), Vincenti, McNulty (Nazon 84'), Jones, Beavon (Biamou 72').
It's hardly relying on the academy to take us forwards is it? If a team in L2 can't 'experiment' with a couple of youngsters to cover injuries, when can you? Don't think Haynes has started 10 games this season anyway. I'm not a big fan of his when analysing his game individually and out of context but from the point of view of a manager who is working to assemble a squad on a budget then I bet he's seen as a great option for left back cover especially if it allows us to spend a bit more on someone like Doyle's wages.

 

[JWC]

If we are relying on it (which it seems we are) to take us forward as a club and aim higher then yes. We need more of a balance and not let the first team be “an experiment” for academy players to sink or swim.

We can't have it both ways, it's about striking a balance. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. We're league two with limited budget, so to have a youth team could be seen as a bit of a luxury anyway. In an ideal world that's really the point of the youth set up, to bring through players into the first team. We're quite lucky that our set up is good and we've been able to sell off the best for considerable money which has essentially kept us afloat. Galling when they go, but that's the reality. Others will come in, do a job, others will not be up to it.

Consider that Wycombe don't even have a youth team, we should count ourselves lucky. Bringing in some players maybe a bit too early doesn't work some times, but in the case of Bayliss it's worked really well as he's now a top player in the team. We're not going to get an ideal situation with our owners and being a league 2 side.

 

[clint van damme]

If we are relying on it (which it seems we are) to take us forward as a club and aim higher then yes. We need more of a balance and not let the first team be “an experiment” for academy players to sink or swim.

but at times you're verging on the vitriolic in your criticism of the academy.
If your above statement is true then the criticism still shouldn't be directed at the academy.

 

[Cavan O'Doherty]

He is.

He wants the owners to invest. Considering the owners only invest the money we generate the money they would be investing into the team would be from the young players we sell.

He then in the next post wants to shut it down which means they would have less money to invest into the first team

Don’t ask me

I think he means that due to the owners lack of investment, the academy players are having to step up which they shouldn't be doing at such a young age like Ponticelli, Bayliss etc. By no means is it the academy's fault, but most of the players that come out of It should be no way near the team in an ideal world.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

I think he means that due to the owners lack of investment, the academy players are having to step up which they shouldn't be doing at such a young age like Ponticelli, Bayliss etc. By no means is it the academy's fault, but most of the players that come out of It should be no way near the team in an ideal world.

Ponticelli has started 2 league games. Bayliss is more than good enough to be playing for us at 18

I don’t agree with ‘lack of investment either’, Ponticelli has his place on the bench because Beavon (and before Thomas) not being rated by the manager. Bayliss is playing, wide right now, because our manager thinks he’s a better option than Vincenti and the two loanees who can’t even get into the squad

 

[Cavan O'Doherty]

Ponticelli has started 2 league games. Bayliss is more than good enough to be playing for us at 18

I don’t agree with ‘lack of investment either’, Ponticelli has his place on the bench because Beavon (and before Thomas) not being rated by the manager. Bayliss is playing, wide right now, because our manager thinks he’s a better option than Vincenti and the two loanees who can’t even get into the squad

So why do you think we're in league two then? It's solely down to the lack of investment. I really don't know how you can't see that.

 

[Adge]

Most selected team is:

Burge

Grimmer
Willis
McDonald
Stokes

Vincenti
Kelly
Doyle
Shipley

Biamou
McNulty

Which of those should be nowhere near the team?

Burge and Willis if we go up as was proved last season in L1. Vincenti,Kelly,Shipley and Biamou aswell not good enough.

 

[fernandopartridge]

He is.

He wants the owners to invest. Considering the owners only invest the money we generate the money they would be investing into the team would be from the young players we sell.

He then in the next post wants to shut it down which means they would have less money to invest into the first team

Don’t ask me

The owners are investing, the money spent on the academy is keeping the club going. Its transfer income in recent years has all been academy products pretty much. The level of investment in the academy for what it produces demonstrates a very good ROI and much better than signing players in the hope of selling them on.

 

[Adge]

but at times you're verging on the vitriolic in your criticism of the academy.
If your above statement is true then the criticism still shouldn't be directed at the academy.

Correct-I have said it’s not the Academy players fault it’s the owners that is the reason we are where we are.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

So why do you think we're in league two then? It's solely down to the lack of investment. I really don't know how you can't see that.

It’s how you spend your budget. We sold Vincelot, a solid League One player who performed well for us, to buy Jordan Turnbull.

Having one of the bigger budgets doesn’t guarantee you success nor does having one of the smallest budgets mean you’ll get relegated

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Burge and Willis if we go up as was proved last season in L1. Vincenti,Kelly,Shipley and Biamou aswell not good enough.

Vincenti has to be good enough because he played loads of games for Rochdale a side who were always near the play offs?

In fact, going by your logic, he’s one of our most successful players in recent seasons and should be a guaranteed starter every week if we get promotion

 

[Cavan O'Doherty]

It’s how you spend your budget. We sold Vincelot, a solid League One player who performed well for us, to buy Jordan Turnbull.

Having one of the bigger budgets doesn’t guarantee you success nor does having one of the smallest budgets mean you’ll get relegated

The underlying factor of our gradual demise has been the owners. It's no coincidence since they've been here we've been relegated twice and have been on an endless slippery slope. If it's not the owners fault whose is it?

 

[Adge]

But as a consequence the thing that matters-results on the pitch-deteriorate and the slide goes on.

 

[shmmeee]

Adge in this thread:

 

[Adge]

You said you don’t care about where players are from before

Showing your true colours now

I couldn’t care less if they are on loan, from the Academy or from Mars as long as they do the business on the pitch.

 

[Adge]

Maybe we have to play the academy players because the only ones we could afford to buy would be worse. Just a thought.

So on that basis then we stand still or go backwards like last season when we had half a team made up of Academy players-and, oh yes, they were not good enough and we ended up getting relegated. Not just them though.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

I couldn’t care less if they are on loan, from the Academy or from Mars as long as they do the business on the pitch.

You do though. The only players you will criticise strongly are the 4-5 young players who played last season, conviently forgetting we have 20 other players. It’s like you think we play 5 a side with our academy players

 

[Adge]

I'm no fan of Haynes, but he's been great the last couple of games. Offers that extra bit going forward and Stokes is out of sorts so I'd definitely keep him in for Lincoln.

At the minute yes, so would I. But long term as we know he won’t cut it.