Oh Jeremy Corbyn (80 Viewers)

[wingy]

I heard one editor suggest last week that the reason Livingstone hasn't been expelled is on legal grounds.
IE his Barristers would win in court.

 

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[Grendel]

For this particular statement I don't see what is anti-Semitic about it. However-if he has made other comments out with this investigation which are, obviously he should go.

My issue is as originally stated that anyone criticising Israel at the moment has 'anti-Semite' thrown back at them. The lunatic Netanyahu is especially bad for it.

I’ve pointed out what is anti Semitic about it - even martcov acknowledged it. Go and tell members of the Jewish community your views on Hitler and Zionism and perhaps you may develop a better understanding.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I’ve pointed out what is anti Semitic about it - even martcov acknowledged it. Go and tell members of the Jewish community your views on Hitler and Zionism and perhaps you may develop a better understanding.

The Nazis pre war floated the idea of sending Jews to another part of the world as a way of getting them out of Germany. Zionists wanted a Jewish state elsewhere. Briefly, and for very different reasons, they both supported Jewish relocation. That's an uncomfortable fact, but a fact nonetheless.

It doesn't make anyone who highlights it anti-Semitic. Find me cases where he has denied or supported the Holocaust, or where he supported pre-war measures against the Jewish community and I'll be the first to call for his expulsion.

 

[clint van damme]

For this particular statement I don't see what is anti-Semitic about it. However-if he has made other comments out with this investigation which are, obviously he should go.

My issue is as originally stated that anyone criticising Israel at the moment has 'anti-Semite' thrown back at them. The lunatic Netanyahu is especially bad for it.

David Baddiel said this yesterday.
People were been called anti-semites for questioning the shooting of hundreds of unarmed protesters in Gaza, (something shamefully under reported in the media). Then you have people who can't criticise Israel without making remarks about the whole Jewish race. He said the whole nuance of the argument was being lost and I agree.

The hypocrisy of some of those trying to use it as a stick to beat Labour with is astounding though. The Daily Mail were themselves praising Pediga not that long ago.

 

[Grendel]

The Nazis pre war floated the idea of sending Jews to another part of the world as a way of getting them out of Germany. Zionists wanted a Jewish state elsewhere. Briefly, and for very different reasons, they both supported Jewish relocation. That's an uncomfortable fact, but a fact nonetheless.

It doesn't make anyone who highlights it anti-Semitic. Find me cases where he has denied or supported the Holocaust, or where he supported pre-war measures against the Jewish community and I'll be the first to call for his expulsion.

They didn’t as I’ve already stated. You are either ignorant on this issue or something far more sinister

Why Ken Livingstone has it so wrong over Hitler and Zionism | David Baddiel

Hitler and the Nazis’ Anti-Zionism

Know doubt you believe his words ok the Andrew Neil show - most thought it was the biggest slaughter on political TV - look at the headlines it attracted.

Early as 1983 he was in trouble for saying the Labour Party was funded by Jewish backers which could result in Jewish MPs infiltrating the party.

I sadly conclude that if Dr Shipman was a Labour Party member you’d just say there’s always accidents in medical practice.

Extraordinary

 

[Grendel]

David Baddiel said this yesterday.
People were been called anti-semites for questioning the shooting of hundreds of unarmed protesters in Gaza, (something shamefully under reported in the media). Then you have people who can't criticise Israel without making remarks about the whole Jewish race. He said the whole nuance of the argument was being lost and I agree.

The hypocrisy of some of those trying to use it as a stick to beat Labour with is astounding though. The Daily Mail were themselves praising Pediga not that long ago.

Read Baddiels comments on Livingstone. Also this is a thread about Corbyn so why you constantly try and switch it I’m not sure.

 

[clint van damme]

Read Baddiels comments on Livingstone. Also this is a thread about Corbyn so why you constantly try and switch it I’m not sure.

You think this thread has stayed on topic?!! Fucking hell!!

There is a bigger issue here and it's agenda driven, you mentioned Baddiel, I've quoted what he has said in the wider context and I agree with him.
Livingstone is currently suspended from the Labour party and has had is suspension extended so what's to debate?
It's amazing the big issues that don't get mentioned on this board and that's symptomatic of what is going on in the country. Just in the last few day:
Hundreds of unarmed protesters shot by one of our allies - quick, write something about Corbyn.
The leader of one of our allies says his country was under instruction from the West to spread Wahhibism - quick, write something about Corbyn.
London Economic says Skripal was investigating Cambridge Anlyitica - quick, write something about Corbyn.
Tory MP spreads Islamaphobic material - quick, write something about Corbyn.
It's so transparent it ridiculous and you can see it but refuse to admit it, unfortunately plenty can't.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They didn’t as I’ve already stated. You are either ignorant on this issue or something far more sinister

Why Ken Livingstone has it so wrong over Hitler and Zionism | David Baddiel

Hitler and the Nazis’ Anti-Zionism

Know doubt you believe his words ok the Andrew Neil show - most thought it was the biggest slaughter on political TV - look at the headlines it attracted.

Early as 1983 he was in trouble for saying the Labour Party was funded by Jewish backers which could result in Jewish MPs infiltrating the party.

I sadly conclude that if Dr Shipman was a Labour Party member you’d just say there’s always accidents in medical practice.

Extraordinary

We know that the Madagascar Plan got as far as a memo from Eichmann with the aim of emigrating all the Jews out of Europe to a specific place. If you look at the aims of both this and of Zionists at the time there is common ground with vastly differing motives and end goals. Ignorant-no. Calling what I see-yes.

 

[Grendel]

We know that the Madagascar Plan got as far as a memo from Eichmann with the aim of emigrating all the Jews out of Europe to a specific place. If you look at the aims of both this and of Zionists at the time there is common ground with vastly differing motives and end goals. Ignorant-no. Calling what I see-yes.

Oddly though that’s not what Mr Livingstone was even referring to was it.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

We helped the EU to evolve to what it is today. Now we ( a portion of the 17,4, a minority) are saying that it is evil and imposing things upon us which we actually were in favour of at various times. We actually had a good deal being a member with a couple of get out clauses and a rebate. Now you are annoyed that we cannot have our cake and eat it. We wouldn’t be in this mess and divided if the Tories hadn’t held an advisory referendum and then insisted on carrying out it‘s result.

The article 50 was worded in part by Lord Kerr who says he never thought the U.K. would leave. He was thinking, in 2002, that the people who may leave would do so because of not liking the freedom of speech, freedom of the press and democracy guarantees of the EU. People on the extreme right. Shows how far we have moved to the right as to put is into the same general direction as these people. These principles are still our principles, but somehow we have ended up alongside the extreme right wing eurosceptics.

Farage has even held a speech for a party that doesn’t want to be told who to remember ( the words of the AFD ), meaning memorials to victims of the holocaust. Or the disgrace of having a major holocaust memorial in Berlin ( again their words). I never dreamt that one of our politicians (MEP ) would be celebrating leaving the EU and then offering his „services“ to a party criticising, and seeking to ban, the „stumbling stones“ placed in the street before the houses of people who were dragged away and sent to death camps never to return. But, the scum, hero of millions of leavers ( not all ), did just that at the invitation of the granddaughter of a member of Hitler’s cabinet.

The association of a major leave campaigner, now threatening to go back to the front if he feels Brexit is being betrayed, with such people and such views is a far cry from the Britain that I grew up in. Some people claim on here that I am out of touch with the real feelings in Britain. Maybe I am, if that is how far people in the U.K. are prepared to sink in order to leave a Europe built to protect us against such scum.

You can spout as much of that drivel as you like. We joined a trading block that despite our 'help'(???) has evolved, & continues to evolve, into what is essentially a European super-state. Progressive governments have handed powers to the EU...which has eventually led to Brexit.

As I have said so many times to you & others on the actual thread about the EU...I voted remain. We are all in it together, the majority voted in way back when...& out much more recently. We ARE leaving - embrace change, fighting it will just bring you stress because Brexit, like the EU super-state is a train that is only stoppable by a very nasty derailment which will cause far many more casualties than we can imagine.

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[SkyblueBazza]

How is 17.4m voting leave a minority?

In martcov's world he can make anything possible

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[SkyblueBazza]

A minority of the 17,4 million. ( See the comma ) Don't say 17,4 million are of the same opinion.

But your 'majority' on the other hand are all united & in full agreement on everything? Yes, of course they are

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[SkyblueBazza]

For this particular statement I don't see what is anti-Semitic about it. However-if he has made other comments out with this investigation which are, obviously he should go.

My issue is as originally stated that anyone criticising Israel at the moment has 'anti-Semite' thrown back at them. The lunatic Netanyahu is especially bad for it.

That's a sweeping generalisation - consistent & persistent anti-Israel comments surely cannot be any more unfair than anti-German, anti-blacks or anti-Russian can it?

Not everything Saddam Hussein did was abhorrent. Just the bad stuff overshadows the good. That happens with individuals, groups & nations.

It is the guiding principles that drive actions that have to be questioned. Israel doesn't (from what I have seen) wish to eradicate other nations or religions or races. There are plenty who seem to want to rid the world of Jews & Israel though.

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[SkyblueBazza]

The Nazis pre war floated the idea of sending Jews to another part of the world as a way of getting them out of Germany. Zionists wanted a Jewish state elsewhere. Briefly, and for very different reasons, they both supported Jewish relocation. That's an uncomfortable fact, but a fact nonetheless.

It doesn't make anyone who highlights it anti-Semitic. Find me cases where he has denied or supported the Holocaust, or where he supported pre-war measures against the Jewish community and I'll be the first to call for his expulsion.

Yes...ethnic cleansing. Although over fairly recent times social cleansing of London seems perfectly acceptable to many given it receives little interest from the majority of us. But it is equally abhorrent, the methods to achieve it are just different...more subtle

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[clint van damme]

That's a sweeping generalisation - consistent & persistent anti-Israel comments surely cannot be any more unfair than anti-German, anti-blacks or anti-Russian can it?

Not everything Saddam Hussein did was abhorrent. Just the bad stuff overshadows the good. That happens with individuals, groups & nations.

It is the guiding principles that drive actions that have to be questioned. Israel doesn't (from what I have seen) wish to eradicate other nations or religions or races. There are plenty who seem to want to rid the world of Jews & Israel though.

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Israel shot over 700 unarmed protesters the other day. Yes there are people who don't want the state of Israel to exist which is a ridiculous position in my book, but much of their behaviour in indefensible.
As for the Saddam Hussein comment, I'd be genuinely interested what you think he did that was OK.
I suppose at some point he must have been or we wouldn't have facilitated him taking control of Iraq.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Israel shot over 700 unarmed protesters the other day. Yes there are people who don't want the state of Israel to exist which is a ridiculous position in my book, but much of their behaviour in indefensible.
As for the Saddam Hussein comment, I'd be genuinely interested what you think he did that was OK.
I suppose at some point he must have been or we wouldn't have facilitated him taking control of Iraq.

Free & compulsory Education (for girls as well), infrastructure built up from the wealth after the nationalisation of Oil production, free healthcare to name a few.

Israel as a state does carry out some appalling actions - the latest you mention included. I condemn such actions. That doesn't make me anti-Semitic as I am sure that many many Jews around the world despair at such events just like non-Jewish people do.

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[Captain Dart]

Oh dear.

 

[clint van damme]

Free & compulsory Education (for girls as well), infrastructure built up from the wealth after the nationalisation of Oil production, free healthcare to name a few.

Israel as a state does carry out some appalling actions - the latest you mention included. I condemn such actions. That doesn't make me anti-Semitic as I am sure that many many Jews around the world despair at such events just like non-Jewish people do.

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From what I've read life under Saddam was pretty horrific which is why I initially supported the Iraq war and his removal. However, I've changed my mind on that as it seems to have destabilised the whole region if not the world.

I think it was the lack of planning for after his removal rather than the war to remove him itself. Blair and co were warned of the potential for a Sunni/Shia civil war but ignored the warnings. It's unleashed all kinds of unpleasantness.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

That's a sweeping generalisation - consistent & persistent anti-Israel comments surely cannot be any more unfair than anti-German, anti-blacks or anti-Russian can it?

Not everything Saddam Hussein did was abhorrent. Just the bad stuff overshadows the good. That happens with individuals, groups & nations.

It is the guiding principles that drive actions that have to be questioned. Israel doesn't (from what I have seen) wish to eradicate other nations or religions or races. There are plenty who seem to want to rid the world of Jews & Israel though.

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It wants rid of the Arabs in a land it feels entitled to because of a several thousand year old desert book.

 

[martcov]

In martcov's world he can make anything possible

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KoK didn't understand English. If I could make anything possible, I would do many things.

 

[martcov]

But your 'majority' on the other hand are all united & in full agreement on everything? Yes, of course they are

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My majority? Have no idea what you are on about..

 

[clint van damme]

Oh dear.

told you before we can all play these Twitter games. What do you want me to tweet, the racist abuse of Sadiq Khan on the tory Facebook page, or the mysoginist and racist abuse of Gina Miller? Or the picture of Jacob Rees Mogg having dinner with an alt right leader of a racist, antisemitic tory fringe group?

 

[Kingokings204]

KoK didn't understand English. If I could make anything possible, I would do many things.

No I only understand German. :finger:

 

[chiefdave]

Oh dear.

Just had a look on facebook and it still comes up fine for me.

Personally i think the bigger 'oh dear' is the disgraceful front page of the Times today.

 

[Grendel]

I suspect Corbyns time is coming to an end

 

[Captain Dart]

Just had a look on facebook and it still comes up fine for me.

Personally i think the bigger 'oh dear' is the disgraceful front page of the Times today.

He had 2 accounts one official which remains and a personal one which has been deleted.
Jeremy Corbyn 'deletes personal Facebook account' after anti-semitism scandal
Corbyn deletes personal Facebook account as pressure mounts over antisemitism row
Jeremy Corbyn deletes his old Facebook account amid anti-Semitism row
Jeremy Corbyn Deletes Personal Facebook Page Amid Anti-Semitism Row

 

[clint van damme]

I suspect Corbyns time is coming to an end

I don't think you're wrong. The campaign against him has been shameful. You won't agree I know.
I still think this is about Leveson 2 more than any other issue.

 

[Captain Dart]

I suspect Corbyns time is coming to an end

McDonnell & Abbott too please.

 

[Captain Dart]

I don't think you're wrong. The campaign against him has been shameful. You won't agree I know.
I still think this is about Leveson 2 more than any other issue.

His brand of politics is shameful, it needs to go for the good of the country.

 

[clint van damme]

McDonnell & Abbott too please.

but you're happy for boris and co to stay in their jobs, says it all.

 

[clint van damme]

His brand of politics is shameful, it needs to go for the good of the country.

right on Iraq, right on nationalisation, right on PFI, I could go on.

 

[Grendel]

McDonnell & Abbott too please.

The political classes suggest thornberry and starmer are plotting.

In the end under Corbyns leadership the party is the only openly racist party to really challenge for government. His inaction to prevent racism and his alliances to numerous unsavoury groups, his lack of action against bullying and mysoginy means he is finished.

 

[clint van damme]

The political classes suggest thornberry and starmer are plotting.

In the end under Corbyns leadership the party is the only openly racist party to really challenge for government. His inaction to prevent racism and his alliances to numerous unsavoury groups, his lack of action against bullying and mysoginy means he is finished.

see my post 2192.
i could add plenty more to the list, including quotes from Boris that make a mockery of your assertion he's not a racist.

 

[Grendel]

see my post 2192.
i could add plenty more to the list, including quotes from Boris that make a mockery of your assertion he's not a racist.

He isn’t in Corbyns league and like it or not Johnson is a right wing politician Corbyn is not. He builds an image on equal opportunity while at the same time allowing his followers to brutalise and abuse anyone who does not tow the line.

I believe that the government has made a motion to debate anti semetism on the return to parliament. Labour MPs are planning to use parliamentary privelege to reveal the true extent of racism and name names. Let’s hope so and this anti British charlatan can return to where he belongs.

 

[Grendel]

Oh dear

Top Labour donor Sir David Garrard quits party over anti-Semitism row