Court hearing delayed (8 Viewers)

[ccfcway]

This weeks scheduled court hearing has been delayed until 26th June 2018

pre season fun !

 

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[Covstu]

here we go again more and more delays!

 

[sw88]

Nobody tell Sunderland!

 

[chiefdave]

Is that just down to court administration or has it been reported back to the judge that mediation is getting somewhere so he’s allowing more time?

 

[Captain Dart]

Is that just down to court administration or has it been reported back to the judge that mediation is getting somewhere so he’s allowing more time?

Judges availability has been given as the reason & hearing will only take place if no agreement can be reached.
High Court hearing into Coventry council’s Ricoh sale to Wasps now due on June 26 – if peace talks fail

 

[Rodders1]

Nobody tell Sunderland!

They’re happy as Larry at the moment. Coleman gone, owner selling up, debt free, prem parachute payment next season. If we go up - they’re gonna love playing us twice!

 

[stevefloyd]

Last time we faced them it was all gonna kick off but it was delayed and the event passed

 

[oucho]

Is that just down to court administration or has it been reported back to the judge that mediation is getting somewhere so he’s allowing more time?

I really wouldn't hold your breath on that one Dave.

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

Don't expect the mediation to work. SISU will sense that Wasps are struggling financially, as they've not posted their returns and seek to cause as much distress as possible.

 

[Astute]

Judges availability has been given as the reason & hearing will only take place if no agreement can be reached.
High Court hearing into Coventry council’s Ricoh sale to Wasps now due on June 26 – if peace talks fail

Peace talks fail?

It is nothing to do with peace talks.

SISU know that Wasps are not financially secure. The court case is to see if the judge got it right about it not being state aid that helped them getting the arena for the price they paid. SISU want them to have to pay another 30m to CCC IIRC. It is their latest attempt to get the arena on the cheap. So how could an agreement between SISU, CCC and Wasps be made unless a massive amount of money changes hands in some sort of direction? But they make it sound as though it can be sorted by a rental agreement.

Wasps can't afford to pay. Wouldn't it be state aid of some sort for CCC to pay off SISU? And SISU won't be happy with just a cheap rental agreement.

 

[Kingokings204]

Don't expect the mediation to work. SISU will sense that Wasps are struggling financially, as they've not posted their returns and seek to cause as much distress as possible.

Exactly this, I’ve heard they really are up against it at the moment and give it another few years.

Broken promises on training grounds and everything else. I don’t see it turning out great for wasps long term.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Is that just down to court administration or has it been reported back to the judge that mediation is getting somewhere so he’s allowing more time?

It'll be a lack of court time. Tory cuts have an impact all over the place.

 

[Captain Dart]

Peace talks fail?

It is nothing to do with peace talks.

SISU know that Wasps are not financially secure. The court case is to see if the judge got it right about it not being state aid that helped them getting the arena for the price they paid. SISU want them to have to pay another 30m to CCC IIRC. It is their latest attempt to get the arena on the cheap. So how could an agreement between SISU, CCC and Wasps be made unless a massive amount of money changes hands in some sort of direction? But they make it sound as though it can be sorted by a rental agreement.

Wasps can't afford to pay. Wouldn't it be state aid of some sort for CCC to pay off SISU? And SISU won't be happy with just a cheap rental agreement.

Yeah, my gut feeling is SISU will just try and grind Wasps down.

They are in 'talks' but won't agree to anything short of a massive gift, at which point their attitude to what constitutes 'state aid' will volte face.

At least the council have more or less got out and it is mainly Wasps and their investors who will take the hit. Don't care about them.

 

[italiahorse]

It'll be a lack of court time. Tory cuts have an impact all over the place.

We need to pay more taxes to pay for what we want then?
Or we could just get more efficient like private businesses have done.
Probably a bit of both.
I’d pay an extra 2% now to increase care in the community to clear the logjam in hospitals.

 

[Astute]

We need to pay more taxes to pay for what we want then?
Or we could just get more efficient like private businesses have done.
Probably a bit of both.
I’d pay an extra 2% now to increase care in the community to clear the logjam in hospitals.

And an extra 3% so everyone can have a home to live in. 2% to start reducing potholes in the roads. 1% to go towards building new roads. 2% to bring the police force numbers up to where they should be. 2% so those in need get more money instead of cuts.

Had better stop before all our wages go on tax.

 

[mark82]

We need to pay more taxes to pay for what we want then?
Or we could just get more efficient like private businesses have done.
Probably a bit of both.
I’d pay an extra 2% now to increase care in the community to clear the logjam in hospitals.

Then maybe that would allow them to cut corporation tax a bit more.

10 years ago corporation tax was 30%, now it is 19%. We have the second lowest corporation tax of all G20 countries. Think we can see where our governments priorities lie.

 

[Astute]

Then maybe that would allow them to cut corporation tax a bit more.

10 years ago corporation tax was 30%, now it is 19%. We have the second lowest corporation tax of all G20 countries. Think we can see where our governments priorities lie.

Yes.

Bringing jobs to the UK. And it has worked as we niw have our highest employment ever. More people are paying tax. More compaies are paying tax. And reducing corporation tax means they have more money to invest. More people working means less benefits paid. All of this helps keep our tax rate down.

 

[Grendel]

Then maybe that would allow them to cut corporation tax a bit more.

10 years ago corporation tax was 30%, now it is 19%. We have the second lowest corporation tax of all G20 countries. Think we can see where our governments priorities lie.

Job creation?

 

[Captain Dart]

Then maybe that would allow them to cut corporation tax a bit more.

10 years ago corporation tax was 30%, now it is 19%. We have the second lowest corporation tax of all G20 countries. Think we can see where our governments priorities lie.

That's is a simplistic argument, you have to look at the tax landscape as a whole and the trends in tax take. Other taxes are available & could be created.

Online business need to pay a lot more tax. Amazon & co are screwing everyone else.
The rules that allow multi nationals to pay low corp tax (like in Eire/Luxembourg) when their business is largely in other countries (ie here) need to be scrapped.
Money transferred to offshore hidey holes need to be taxed as it leaves the country.

 

[Rodders1]

Yes.

Bringing jobs to the UK. And it has worked as we niw have our highest employment ever. More people are paying tax. More compaies are paying tax. And reducing corporation tax means they have more money to invest. More people working means less benefits paid. All of this helps keep our tax rate down.

Sounds nice - So why is the NHS nearly falling over, we have 22000 less police on the streets, crime is on the up and food banks are being used.

 

[Captain Dart]

Sounds nice - So why is the NHS nearly falling over, we have 22000 less police on the streets, crime is on the up and food banks are being used.

So basically you want other people to pay more tax, am I right?

 

[Londonccfcfan]

Only in CCFC chat forum can the topic change from Court hearing delayed to Corporation tax in matter of mins.

 

[Astute]

Sounds nice - So why is the NHS nearly falling over, we have 22000 less police on the streets, crime is on the up and food banks are being used.

You really don't know?

Our population has rocketed up. Spending on the NHS has not. Real police officers have been replaced with community officers which are volunteers.

Where the money has been going to is paying private landlords top wack to house millions of people. Many billions needs to be spent in many ways.

The problem is we had a Tory government for many years. They are all about cutting tax and cutting benefits. Then we got a Labour government for many years. But under Bliar they were more like the Tories in disguise. And now for many years we have had the Tories in again. So there has been a lack of investment...and that is me being polite.

But I noticed that you never complained about paying less tax yourself.

 

[Rodders1]

You really don't know?

Our population has rocketed up. Spending on the NHS has not. Real police officers have been replaced with community officers which are volunteers.

Where the money has been going to is paying private landlords top wack to house millions of people. Many billions needs to be spent in many ways.

The problem is we had a Tory government for many years. They are all about cutting tax and cutting benefits. Then we got a Labour government for many years. But under Bliar they were more like the Tories in disguise. And now for many years we have had the Tories in again. So there has been a lack of investment...and that is me being polite.

But I noticed that you never complained about paying less tax yourself.

I’m very happy to pay more tax.

Would support a more Scandinavian approach.

 

[Rodders1]

So basically you want other people to pay more tax, am I right?

No - my “sounds good” comment was tongue in cheek.

We all need to pay more tax. Employees, employers, especially the rich (individuals and businesses) who have unequal access to cheap debt unlike the poor.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yes.

Bringing jobs to the UK. And it has worked as we niw have our highest employment ever. More people are paying tax. More compaies are paying tax. And reducing corporation tax means they have more money to invest. More people working means less benefits paid. All of this helps keep our tax rate down.

Considering a lot of the rise in employment is self employment, zero hours contracts and minimum wage slave jobs, the points about people claiming less benefit and more tax or unproven.

The tax take from corporation tax has fallen since 2010, despite growth in company profit. What benefit does this really have to most of us? Particularly considering how many companies in the UK have foreign shareholders? It literally removes money from the UK economy.

 

[wingy]

Considering a lot of the rise in employment is self employment, zero hours contracts and minimum wage slave jobs, the points about people claiming less benefit and more tax or unproven.

The tax take from corporation tax has fallen since 2010, despite growth in company profit. What benefit does this really have to most of us? Particularly considering how many companies in the UK have foreign shareholders? It literally removes money from the UK economy.

There was a headline earlier this Week suggesting for a certain segment of society it takes five months salary to cover the rent.
There has also been a suggestion that many recent failures and redundancies in the retail sector are down to minimum /living wage legislation .
Both laudible aims I'm sure, personally the winding down of the job creating Tax Credit system has been a mistake.
Although it may of course allow a Govt to shave a percentage or two off the corporation tax bill .
Edit;-Or allow Huge operations such as Amazon hoover up all the trade without obligation to pay it's share .

 

[ccfcway]

still, good news about Any McPartlin looking to return to work next year

 

[Astute]

Considering a lot of the rise in employment is self employment, zero hours contracts and minimum wage slave jobs, the points about people claiming less benefit and more tax or unproven.

The tax take from corporation tax has fallen since 2010, despite growth in company profit. What benefit does this really have to most of us? Particularly considering how many companies in the UK have foreign shareholders? It literally removes money from the UK economy.

For starters zero hours contracts are down.

And you are wrong about corporation tax also. Tax collected last year was UP 21% to 56 billion from the year previous. And it has been rising since it went down from 30%.


UK corporation tax receipts surged to a record high during the past financial year despite the main rate falling from 30 per cent in 2008 to 19 per cent today. Linking tax cuts to higher revenues is a theory once derided by George H W Bush, the former US president, as “voodoo economics”. But if that is not the cause for the bumper receipts, what are the factors responsible? UK economy has grown, and profits with it Official public finance data, published on Tuesday, found the UK government had raised £56bn from corporation tax during the 2016-17 financial year, a 21 per cent increase from the previous year. In part, this is because the government has changed the date of when corporation tax payments appear in the figures in a way that has flattered this year’s tax take. However, on a purely cash basis receipts increased by a still impressive 12.6 per cent. The Office for Budget Responsibility, the government’s fiscal watchdog, expects them to increase even further as more small companies pay their tax.

I suppose the financial Times doesn't know what it is talking about either.

 

[ccfcway]

lets say SISU win the court case, Wasps have to pay £30m to the council or go bust, would the stadium then be handed back to the council if they couldn't pay it ?

 

[Astute]

lets say SISU win the court case, Wasps have to pay £30m to the council or go bust, would the stadium then be handed back to the council if they couldn't pay it ?

I'll only consider it when there is a 1% or more chance of them winning.

 

[italiahorse]

Then maybe that would allow them to cut corporation tax a bit more.

10 years ago corporation tax was 30%, now it is 19%. We have the second lowest corporation tax of all G20 countries. Think we can see where our governments priorities lie.

Yet the overall income generated is more because more companies have invested here. Same with cutting the higher level of income tax. More income generated.

 

[fernandopartridge]

For starters zero hours contracts are down.

And you are wrong about corporation tax also. Tax collected last year was UP 21% to 56 billion from the year previous. And it has been rising since it went down from 30%.


UK corporation tax receipts surged to a record high during the past financial year despite the main rate falling from 30 per cent in 2008 to 19 per cent today. Linking tax cuts to higher revenues is a theory once derided by George H W Bush, the former US president, as “voodoo economics”. But if that is not the cause for the bumper receipts, what are the factors responsible? UK economy has grown, and profits with it Official public finance data, published on Tuesday, found the UK government had raised £56bn from corporation tax during the 2016-17 financial year, a 21 per cent increase from the previous year. In part, this is because the government has changed the date of when corporation tax payments appear in the figures in a way that has flattered this year’s tax take. However, on a purely cash basis receipts increased by a still impressive 12.6 per cent. The Office for Budget Responsibility, the government’s fiscal watchdog, expects them to increase even further as more small companies pay their tax.

I suppose the financial Times doesn't know what it is talking about either.

I read the IFS critique which looks beyond just the numbers. The economy has been growing apparently so receipts should be up regardless. You tried to put it down to the cuts themselves which is unproven.

Read that: What’s been happening to corporation tax? - Institute For Fiscal Studies - IFS

All cuts in corporation tax show is the passing of the burden from companies to individuals.

 

[fernandopartridge]

lets say SISU win the court case, Wasps have to pay £30m to the council or go bust, would the stadium then be handed back to the council if they couldn't pay it ?

Possibly as a result of insolvency on the part of ACL. Not sure which of the Wasps companies is party to the case

 

[fernandopartridge]

I've said on here before Amazon et al need to be put on a level playing field with offline retailers. That sort of intervention would be abhorrent to the current government.

I tried explaining to a colleague how Amazon's "brilliance" was actually a disaster for everybody but they just couldn't grasp it

There was a headline earlier this Week suggesting for a certain segment of society it takes five months salary to cover the rent.
There has also been a suggestion that many recent failures and redundancies in the retail sector are down to minimum /living wage legislation .
Both laudible aims I'm sure, personally the winding down of the job creating Tax Credit system has been a mistake.
Although it may of course allow a Govt to shave a percentage or two off the corporation tax bill .
Edit;-Or allow Huge operations such as Amazon hoover up all the trade without obligation to pay it's share .