Court Case Thread! June 2018 (16 Viewers)

[Nick]

 

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[ccfcway]

Wasps QC says the collapse of her client would affect the wider community and other parties. She said it “creates ripples”. ”.

they didn't seem to care about that when they left London !

 

[ccfcway]

Mr Thompson, Sisu QC says: “This is not a Punch and Judy show "

oh yes it is !

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

At the end of the day, if the council always intended on extending the lease, surely that should have been part of the value when selling ACL.

That is where they’d get best value for money for the tax payer?

Also the collapse of their client would be greeted with glee on my end...

 

[fernandopartridge]

Interesting

 

[ricohroar]

Any mention of the new Sisu Stadium build yet? What are they going to do with a new stadium and half the Ricoh?

 

[Nick]

At the end of the day, if the council always intended on extending the lease, surely that should have been part of the value when selling ACL.

That is where they’d get best value for money for the tax payer?

Also the collapse of their client would be greeted with glee on my end...

They voted to extend the lease at the same time they voted to sell their share to Wasps.... It's clear it's all linked.

If they had sold the share, then gone back to vote about the lease extension there would be no question I don't think.

 

[Nick]

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

So are we all thinking of gearing up for Judicial Review 2? Seems like it needs looking into.

 

[Covstu]

Seems like the club are putting a strong case through for foul play but I am assuming this was the same stance on JR1 and appeals etc?? Has there been anything new come to light or going over old ground again??

 

[Nick]

Seems like the club are putting a strong case through for foul play but I am assuming this was the same stance on JR1 and appeals etc?? Has there been anything new come to light or going over old ground again??

Nothing massive.

More about evidence PR Campaigns with the Telegraph and council and the bit about the council wanting to buy higgs share but being worried the club might hijack it.

 

[Winny the Bish]

It's all very boring and tedious, but reading through this...it does seem that the club have a very decent case to be made. You can see why they appeal and keep going with this rather than just sacking it all off.

 

[Nick]

 

[Nick]

It's all very boring and tedious, but reading through this...it does seem that the club have a very decent case to be made. You can see why they appeal and keep going with this rather than just sacking it all off.

It's been the same most of the times, a couple of things come out and they make you raise your eyebrow but then it gets thrown out. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It's been the same most of the times, a couple of things come out and they make you raise your eyebrow but then it gets thrown out. Rinse and repeat.

In many ways, in terms of the PR, these court cases do more harm to SISU than good.

As you say, there's the odd thing that comes out, but basically these cases are judged on procedure, so as long as that's followed, it doesn't really matter if people agree with it or not.

Meanwhile, the stuff about media campaigns and the *actual* politicking gets swept aside, because SISU lose yet again!

 

[Nick]

In many ways, in terms of the PR, these court cases do more harm to SISU than good.

As you say, there's the odd thing that comes out, but basically these cases are judged on procedure, so as long as that's followed, it doesn't really matter if people agree with it or not.

Meanwhile, the stuff about media campaigns and the *actual* politicking gets swept aside, because SISU lose yet again!

Exactly, the council leader could have been smashing rent boys in a layby but as long as the paperwork and procedure is watertight it doesn't make a difference.

 

[Nick]

Knocked down price
Mr Thompson says the KPMG report states because it was a one on one transaction and there were no other offers on the table so there was no pressure for Wasps to “cough up”.

He said: “In my submission what this shows is why the KPMG approach was wrong, because it clearly wasn’t an open market valuation.”

He gave the analogy of an elderly widower selling her family home to a family member for a knocked down price - saying this was not the market value but a favour.

He says it is required by EU law to have an open market valuation.

 

[Winny the Bish]

Exactly, the council leader could have been smashing rent boys in a layby but as long as the paperwork and procedure is watertight it doesn't make a difference.

It's all rather bizarre. There are things that have been done wrong on both sides, but none of them really matter and it all depends on which Valuation the Judges go with.

 

[Moff]

Any goals yet?

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Any mention of the new Sisu Stadium build yet? What are they going to do with a new stadium and half the Ricoh?

Phew, just in time.

 

[Astute]

In many ways, in terms of the PR, these court cases do more harm to SISU than good.

As you say, there's the odd thing that comes out, but basically these cases are judged on procedure, so as long as that's followed, it doesn't really matter if people agree with it or not.

Meanwhile, the stuff about media campaigns and the *actual* politicking gets swept aside, because SISU lose yet again!

That is the problem. We would all love to see CCC and Wasps lose. But it is still all about legal and not moral matters.

 

[Astute]

Any goals yet?

0-0 Just a few poor shots so far.

 

[tisza]

In many ways, in terms of the PR, these court cases do more harm to SISU than good.

As you say, there's the odd thing that comes out, but basically these cases are judged on procedure, so as long as that's followed, it doesn't really matter if people agree with it or not.

Meanwhile, the stuff about media campaigns and the *actual* politicking gets swept aside, because SISU lose yet again!

not sure these cases do SISU much further damage almost at saturation point anyway. Can argue with the promotion and relative stabilization of annual finances (exc. stadium future) that not affecting current on-field stuff.
Personally don't mind if case for a JR is won so can be a full disclosure of facts e.g. in camera council meeting discussing Wasps offer. Want to know how much if this based on petty personal animosity vs. sound correct business/govt practice. How much if any consideration was given to CCFC & supporters over a desire to get one over the owners.

 

[ccfcway]

And that's Half Time.

Get out the oranges...

Ah, sorry

"Lord Justice Leveson asks for fruit not to be used as an analogy in the court."

 

[fernandopartridge]

not sure these cases do SISU much further damage almost at saturation point anyway. Can argue with the promotion and relative stabilization of annual finances (exc. stadium future) that not affecting current on-field stuff.
Personally don't mind if case for a JR is won so can be a full disclosure of facts e.g. in camera council meeting discussing Wasps offer. Want to know how much if this based on petty personal animosity vs. sound correct business/govt practice. How much if any consideration was given to CCFC & supporters over a desire to get one over the owners.

You know the answer to the last question

 

[tisza]

sadly think i do.

 

[hill83]

Exactly, the council leader could have been smashing rent boys in a layby but as long as the paperwork and procedure is watertight it doesn't make a difference.

Got to let them know you are there early doors.

 

[Captain Dart]

Live: Day two of Ricoh Arena row in Court of Appeal
12:41Katy Hallam-COV Witness statement
Mr Thompson is discussing Joy Seppala’s witness statement.
He says the statement reveals how unsuccessful negotiations had been made with the head of council at the end of 2013.
He said ultimately “the group returned to the ground apparently as the occupier of the ground” as a trust-building exercise between CCFC and the council.
He said CCFC were “not very happy” when it was found out that it had committed to the sale to Wasps.

Now I thought everybody knew that Wasps were moving in when City moved back, but Sepalla seems to be suggesting this was a surprise to her!

 

[chiefdave]

still cannot argue with the fact that the council did not get the best deal possible to get more coffers into the tax payers bag! im not bothered about all this SISU stuff really the council have a duty of care to make sure that they get the best financial return for OUR PROPERTY!!

This is the biggest thing for me. The council have a duty to the taxpayer and at the end of the day, no matter what ruling is made, they haven't carried out that duty. Would there have been others interested leading to a greater sale price? We'll never know but it certainly wouldn't have made it any lower.

 

[chiefdave]

Of course they are linked. Are they saying that they are not?

The whole reason this is back in court is because the judge that put this through to appeal said they were linked but the previous judge had viewed them as separate.

 

[MalcSB]

Live: Day two of Ricoh Arena row in Court of Appeal
12:41Katy Hallam-COV Witness statement
Mr Thompson is discussing Joy Seppala’s witness statement.
He says the statement reveals how unsuccessful negotiations had been made with the head of council at the end of 2013.
He said ultimately “the group returned to the ground apparently as the occupier of the ground” as a trust-building exercise between CCFC and the council.
He said CCFC were “not very happy” when it was found out that it had committed to the sale to Wasps.

Now I thought everybody knew that Wasps were moving in when City moved back, but Sepalla seems to be suggesting this was a surprise to her!

I think it was a surprise, when we moved back a councillor said it was still possible for ccfc to buy the stadium.

 

[chiefdave]

Yeah but if they are moaning about the value, they just whip out the document from KPMG and if it's under valued it's their fault. They might have already and I've missed it?

Theres at least one valuation from prior to the sale that Wasps have refused to provide. You'd think one of the first things that would be asked for by the judge is to have all the valuations that were done prior to or after the transaction to be made available to them so they can see exactly what is being valued and what it has been valued at.

 

[Nick]

Live: Day two of Ricoh Arena row in Court of Appeal
12:41Katy Hallam-COV Witness statement
Mr Thompson is discussing Joy Seppala’s witness statement.
He says the statement reveals how unsuccessful negotiations had been made with the head of council at the end of 2013.
He said ultimately “the group returned to the ground apparently as the occupier of the ground” as a trust-building exercise between CCFC and the council.
He said CCFC were “not very happy” when it was found out that it had committed to the sale to Wasps.

Now I thought everybody knew that Wasps were moving in when City moved back, but Sepalla seems to be suggesting this was a surprise to her!

Same with the council, they were planning to build trust to potentially see the club / SISU buy the ground so the memo must have been lost.

 

[Nick]

Theres at least one valuation from prior to the sale that Wasps have refused to provide. You'd think one of the first things that would be asked for by the judge is to have all the valuations that were done prior to or after the transaction to be made available to them so they can see exactly what is being valued and what it has been valued at.

That would be the logical thing, then if there is a valuation for what was purchased by Wasps that shows it was done by an independent company and then documents showing Wasps paying more then isn't that case solved?

Surely they can't refuse to provide evidence?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Live: Day two of Ricoh Arena row in Court of Appeal
12:41Katy Hallam-COV Witness statement
Mr Thompson is discussing Joy Seppala’s witness statement.
He says the statement reveals how unsuccessful negotiations had been made with the head of council at the end of 2013.
He said ultimately “the group returned to the ground apparently as the occupier of the ground” as a trust-building exercise between CCFC and the council.
He said CCFC were “not very happy” when it was found out that it had committed to the sale to Wasps.

Now I thought everybody knew that Wasps were moving in when City moved back, but Sepalla seems to be suggesting this was a surprise to her!

It says committed to doesn't it, SISU might have know of the interest, not that it was a fait accompli like it really was which was contrary to the council's public statements.

What you heard within the council might be different though Jack