Charlton: A Few Thoughts (1 Viewer)

[Dimi_Konstantflapalot]

First game of the season so thought I’d list out a few things I noticed yesterday. Obviously can’t comment on previous performances (bar the Sky games) so bear that in mind:

• Really unimpressed with Brown, doesn’t seem to be any upgrade on Stokes considering he’s supposedly meant to be one of the better LBs in the league. Terrible tackle for the pen. Seemed quite quiet and was given the run around by Lyle Taylor. Defensively a bit weak and didn’t offer much going forward
• We defended really well for most of the game. Davies is the leader and organiser of the back 4 but thought Willis and Sterling were both excellent as well.
• Doyle is still hugely important to this team in the middle and we will sorely miss him when he finally retires. Drove us on in the first half and thought he recycled possession pretty well mostly
• Not sure what JCH is bringing to the side. Neither holds it up or runs in behind, looks awkward when challenging for the ball and when he initially receives it
• Team shape looked pretty good without the ball first half although it left JCH a bit isolated at times with Chaplin dropping a bit deeper. Clueless and no ideas going forward at all until the substitutions. Bakayoko and Hiwula were excellent and made us more direct

A word on Charlton - thought they looked a very good side going forward and with a couple of their defensive players back from injury they will be right in the mix in May I’d have thought.

Fans were superb, what an atmosphere! Days like that made me wish I go to games far more often than I do currently

 

---

[Effcee]

Great summary... we don't hold on to the ball long enough and at times we need to be more patient... it's important for JCH and Chaplin to make the runs but just as important to return possession to our midfield if nothing is on. At times yesterday it was like the Alamo and our defence were kept too busy. Fully agree about Davies... he controls the shape really well and they all take instructions from him. I think he's a future Captain if he stays. Bring on Wycombe...

 

[stevefloyd]

We also struggle to win 2nd balls and needlessly give the ball away with dreadful passing. I have to say Willis really impressed me towards the end he was charging around desperate to try and win the ball back and really upped his tempo, Sterlings confidence is growing too.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Huge result, as if we'd lost the fans and team could easily have felt deflated(despite Charlton being a good side). It feels like we have gained a bit of a foothold in the division, and given us a confidence boost. Just as important-it has given 2k City fans a reward for their magnificent efforts. Good day all round - now drag a friend to the Wycombe game!!

 

[GaryJones]

Good summary although I do think Brown is a lot better than his performance on Saturday.
Looked rusty but think he will improve.

 

[Dimi_Konstantflapalot]

Good summary although I do think Brown is a lot better than his performance on Saturday.
Looked rusty but think he will improve.

I hope so - I didn't think he was particularly good v Oxford in the Sky game either though. Hopefully just rustiness as you say, I know from personal experience ACL injuries can take a long time to feel fully comfortable and confident in your knee and movements etc.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

4 points from the last 3 games is a good return. Factor in that we really should’ve knicked a win against Sunderland and missed another 1v1 against Pompey, we really could’ve got 6-7 points from these 3 games. As well as the Barnsley result, we’ve proven we can mix it with the best in this league when we’re at home. We need to build some consistency now.

I still don’t trust us to go out and beat Wycombe though, right now we’re rather inconsistent, but moving in the right direction.

Bakayoko and Hiwula putting in good cameos is very good for competition. For the people asking what JCH offers, clearly didn’t watch the Sunderland game! On his day, and he’s had 2 games this season like this, he’s unplayable. Given how young our team is, they’re going to be quite inconsistent and blow hot and cold.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

I didn't make the game at Charlton but from reports and what I've seen from Brown in previous games this season is that he's completely lost his pace. When he first signed what excited me the most was that we had brought in a solid LB who's quick and can get up the pitch well - something we've lacked for years. But like with Andreu, his injury has clearly affected him to the point where it's looking likely that he's just not the same player anymore. If you watch the highlights back of Brown giving away the pen it's almost written in stone, hence the rash tackle.

Now Shrews fans were aware of Brown's potential deterioration. Whilst many claimed that although they were gutted there were a section who realised that he may not be the same player due to his injury. So, whilst on paper it was a good signing, I'm astonished MR took a risk on him as signing players on the back of a serious injury rarely pays off. Not that MR would take the advice of a section of disgruntled Shrews fans, but he must have the experience to realise it was a risk. Look at Vincenti last season as a case in point. A few years ago he was regarded as of the best midfielders in League One, yet now he can barely break into a League Two side heading for relegation. For a manager who's renowned for being overly careful at times, Robins does often make some careless decisions - and is often too stubborn to learn from his mistakes.

Now given our budget maybe Brown was worth taking the risk but like the top poster has said, why not just keep Stokes? Hindsight is a wonderful thing but looking back would Stokes really be a downgrade on Brown in his current state? And you could argue was it a budgetary choice? We offered more money than the Shrews so it's not like he'll be on chump change.

It's imperitive in football not to be hasty but if Brown continues his poor form, surely MR will have one eye on the Jan transfer window....

 

[Monners]

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!

Best you can say is that we stuck in there, but fair play to the subs. Charlton blew it really - we were there for the taking.

I am not complaining though - great win and day out (despite falling asleep on the train home and missing my stop)

 

[Winny the Bish]

My biggest thought from the game: Find out how much Charlton want for their #11, Tariqe Fosu.

They're supposed to be in a bit of a financial meltdown, right? He looked very creative and is in the last year of his contract. Put £250k or so on the table and see what their money-hungry Chairman does.

 

[edgy]

I didn't make the game at Charlton but from reports and what I've seen from Brown in previous games this season is that he's completely lost his pace. When he first signed what excited me the most was that we had brought in a solid LB who's quick and can get up the pitch well - something we've lacked for years. But like with Andreu, his injury has clearly affected him to the point where it's looking likely that he's just not the same player anymore. If you watch the highlights back of Brown giving away the pen it's almost written in stone, hence the rash tackle.

Now Shrews fans were aware of Brown's potential deterioration. Whilst many claimed that although they were gutted there were a section who realised that he may not be the same player due to his injury. So, whilst on paper it was a good signing, I'm astonished MR took a risk on him as signing players on the back of a serious injury rarely pays off. Not that MR would take the advice of a section of disgruntled Shrews fans, but he must have the experience to realise it was a risk. Look at Vincenti last season as a case in point. A few years ago he was regarded as of the best midfielders in League One, yet now he can barely break into a League Two side heading for relegation. For a manager who's renowned for being overly careful at times, Robins does often make some careless decisions - and is often too stubborn to learn from his mistakes.

Now given our budget maybe Brown was worth taking the risk but like the top poster has said, why not just keep Stokes? Hindsight is a wonderful thing but looking back would Stokes really be a downgrade on Brown in his current state? And you could argue was it a budgetary choice? We offered more money than the Shrews so it's not like he'll be on chump change.

It's imperitive in football not to be hasty but if Brown continues his poor form, surely MR will have one eye on the Jan transfer window....

We have Mason remember, so I doubt we'll be looking at LB in January. Mason has done more for me so far than Brown this season. But the two of them will suffice this year.

 

[Mild-Mannered Janitor]

My biggest thought from the game: Find out how much Charlton want for their #11, Tariqe Fosu.

They're supposed to be in a bit of a financial meltdown, right? He looked very creative and is in the last year of his contract. Put £250k or so on the table and see what their money-hungry Chairman does.

There is meltdown and then there is SISU funding, put £250k on the table........lol

I agree though, their front 3 looked really strong with movement and skill.

 

[clint van damme]

My biggest thought from the game: Find out how much Charlton want for their #11, Tariqe Fosu.

They're supposed to be in a bit of a financial meltdown, right? He looked very creative and is in the last year of his contract. Put £250k or so on the table and see what their money-hungry Chairman does.

Ruthless! But I like your thinking. One of the best players I've seen play against us this season.

 

[clint van damme]

There is meltdown and then there is SISU funding, put £250k on the table........lol

I agree though, their front 3 looked really strong with movement and skill.

Robins has said that he has retained some of his budget for January, whether that would stretch to a 250 grand bid is another thing but I was really impressed with him.

 

[withnail]

My thoughts are...never listen to Kelly's helpful advice at spot kicks.
Charlton 1-2 Coventry
see 1 minute 34 sec.

 

[Esoterica]

First game of the season so thought I’d list out a few things I noticed yesterday. Obviously can’t comment on previous performances (bar the Sky games) so bear that in mind:

• Really unimpressed with Brown, doesn’t seem to be any upgrade on Stokes considering he’s supposedly meant to be one of the better LBs in the league. Terrible tackle for the pen. Seemed quite quiet and was given the run around by Lyle Taylor. Defensively a bit weak and didn’t offer much going forward
• We defended really well for most of the game. Davies is the leader and organiser of the back 4 but thought Willis and Sterling were both excellent as well.
• Doyle is still hugely important to this team in the middle and we will sorely miss him when he finally retires. Drove us on in the first half and thought he recycled possession pretty well mostly
• Not sure what JCH is bringing to the side. Neither holds it up or runs in behind, looks awkward when challenging for the ball and when he initially receives it
• Team shape looked pretty good without the ball first half although it left JCH a bit isolated at times with Chaplin dropping a bit deeper. Clueless and no ideas going forward at all until the substitutions. Bakayoko and Hiwula were excellent and made us more direct

A word on Charlton - thought they looked a very good side going forward and with a couple of their defensive players back from injury they will be right in the mix in May I’d have thought.

Fans were superb, what an atmosphere! Days like that made me wish I go to games far more often than I do currently

Genuine question - if Davies is leading and organising the back 4, what is Doyle so hugely important for?

He certainly didn't inspire Bayliss and JCH who were largely anonymous on Saturday. Defensively we could have easily conceded 3 in the first half without complaints, and we were pretty awful going forwards until the introduction of Bakayoko which was what really changed the game in our favour.
He's not positively contributing to our build up play as part of a midfield 4 when we attack and it sucks Chaplin in deep to fill the hole which in turn leaves JCH isolated. This is particularly evident in the first half of games when things are still tight and we look light on bodies in attack - a big part of the reason we've only scored once from open play in 12 first halves now.
If he's not influencing the performance in either attack or defence, getting us an edge with the ref or inspiring team or individual performances then I just don't understand why he's so key again this year.

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

To be fair I think you've had a bit of a downer on Doyle for a while. I seem to remember you were crying out for Kelly to be preferred to him last season, until the spell we had without him around February last year proved how much we actually did need him. He has not been half as bad this season as he's been made out to be, and we've just won away at a team who are likely to be around the play offs at the end of the season so why change now? Kelly & Ogogo have done nothing this season to show they are worthy of replacing Doyle yet, although given Ogogo's reputation from Shrewsbury you would think that he must have more to him than we have seen so far, and ought to be a viable replacement down the line, but for now I believe dropping Doyle would have a negative impact on the team as a whole. As for Kelly he is a decent enough player when we are winning, but he is a bit lightweight, and a weak link when we are up against it, where I feel he tends to hide a little in those circumstances, which Doyle never does.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Genuine question - if Davies is leading and organising the back 4, what is Doyle so hugely important for?

He certainly didn't inspire Bayliss and JCH who were largely anonymous on Saturday. Defensively we could have easily conceded 3 in the first half without complaints, and we were pretty awful going forwards until the introduction of Bakayoko which was what really changed the game in our favour.
He's not positively contributing to our build up play as part of a midfield 4 when we attack and it sucks Chaplin in deep to fill the hole which in turn leaves JCH isolated. This is particularly evident in the first half of games when things are still tight and we look light on bodies in attack - a big part of the reason we've only scored once from open play in 12 first halves now.
If he's not influencing the performance in either attack or defence, getting us an edge with the ref or inspiring team or individual performances then I just don't understand why he's so key again this year.

Bayliss just hasn’t been playing that well this season. He’s still only young and League 1 is a huge step up compared to L2 — if he can hack it, and excel we know he then has similar potential to Dele, Wilson and Maddison.

You can’t lay the blame of individuals who are uninspired on the captain. JCH will likely be dropped now for Bakayoko, that’s his inspiration for next time he plays.

You need leaders in your team, look at how badly we played without one when we got relegated or the period in February without Doyle. He’s a player that does unappreciated work that coaches, not fans, notice.

 

[GaryJones]

Doyle is our arse kicker, our organiser and leads our men.
No way does he need to be dropped!
First name on the team sheet - end of!

 

[TewkesburySkyBlue]

Didn’t go unfortunately but did anyone watch the penalty in detail on I follow? I’m sure Burge dived to his left as Davis was strongly indicating that was the way . Watch the video. He was wrong of course but must have had a reason to believe that was where the ball would be put. Also was a clear penalty for me . Stupid defending from Brown.

 

[clint van damme]

Didn’t go unfortunately but did anyone watch the penalty in detail on I follow? I’m sure Burge dived to his left as Davis was strongly indicating that was the way . Watch the video. He was wrong of course but must have had a reason to believe that was where the ball would be put. Also was a clear penalty for me . Stupid defending from Brown.

so you don't think Brown was fouled prior to him bringing their player down?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Doyle is our arse kicker, our organiser and leads our men.
No way does he need to be dropped!
First name on the team sheet - end of!

Whilst I agree that he’s our leader, at times I think he is detriment to our speed of play.

Whenever he’s on he ball - play slows drastically and the strikers are swamped. I’m hoping that Ogogo is the answe and he’s a nasty bastard like Doyle

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Whilst I agree that he’s our leader, at times I think he is detriment to our speed of play.

Whenever he’s on he ball - play slows drastically and the strikers are swamped. I’m hoping that Ogogo is the answe and he’s a nasty bastard like Doyle

Regarding Ogogo. What concerns me is that we're banging on the same drum as we are with Brown. 'We're waiting for him to get 100% fit'. I don't know if i'm missing something but we already 2 months into the season and both are still blowing wind after the first half yet we're still hoping they'll be irreplaceable members of the Starting XI. I understand if Ogogo lacks match sharpness but I'm struggling to understand or believe for that matter that he's still unfit when we're nearly a third of the season through.

Whether that's down to poor player management or the fact that Ogogo is failing to meet the standards required is another matter for another thread but both have to surely be considered because Robins has admitted that he's essentially nowhere near the level required to warrant a starting spot. But like yourself I'm crossing all fingers and toes because I'm really hoping he comes good as on paper he'd be a fantastic replacement for Doyle in the long run.

 

[Esoterica]

To be fair I think you've had a bit of a downer on Doyle for a while. I seem to remember you were crying out for Kelly to be preferred to him last season, until the spell we had without him around February last year proved how much we actually did need him. He has not been half as bad this season as he's been made out to be, and we've just won away at a team who are likely to be around the play offs at the end of the season so why change now? Kelly & Ogogo have done nothing this season to show they are worthy of replacing Doyle yet, although given Ogogo's reputation from Shrewsbury you would think that he must have more to him than we have seen so far, and ought to be a viable replacement down the line, but for now I believe dropping Doyle would have a negative impact on the team as a whole. As for Kelly he is a decent enough player when we are winning, but he is a bit lightweight, and a weak link when we are up against it, where I feel he tends to hide a little in those circumstances, which Doyle never does.

I was crying out for us not to play two defensive midfielders for most of the season last year because of the impact it had on our attacking performance, especially against the lower teams.
I'm not arguing about who would be a worthy replacement anyway, I asked what it is Doyle is doing this year that the OP thinks makes him hugely important. Or, alternatively, why you think it would have a negative impact on the team as a whole if he didn't play?
I keep hearing leadership, experience etc and now also some kind of unappreciated work that only coaches can see but I think that's a very generic cliche. Leadership can come in many forms but if he's not organising the defense, if he's not bringing the best out of individuals, if his personal performances aren't raising the bar for everyone else, if we've not played well as a team for an entire match yet and in my opinion, if his actual football is restricting our attacking play both in speed and numbers involved in attack then it creates a difficult situation - you can't keep bollocking individuals and demand more from players if you're making mistakes and struggling to keep up with L1 play yourself as that respect/aura slowly erodes.

 

[TewkesburySkyBlue]

Didn’t go unfortunately but did anyone watch the penalty in detail on I follow? I’m sure Burge dived to his left as Davis was strongly indicating that was the way . Watch the video. He was wrong of course but must have had a reason to believe that was where the ball would be put. Also was a clear penalty for me . Stupid defending from Brown.
Apparently it was Kelly. Didn’t see the previous post apologies to Tom Davies.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Regarding Ogogo. What concerns me is that we're banging on the same drum as we are with Brown. 'We're waiting for him to get 100% fit'. I don't know if i'm missing something but we already 2 months into the season and both are still blowing wind after the first half yet we're still hoping they'll be irreplaceable members of the Starting XI. I understand if Ogogo lacks match sharpness but I'm struggling to understand or believe for that matter that he's still unfit when we're nearly a third of the season through.

Whether that's down to poor player management or the fact that Ogogo is failing to meet the standards required is another matter for another thread but both have to surely be considered because Robins has admitted that he's essentially nowhere near the level required to warrant a starting spot. But like yourself I'm crossing all fingers and toes because I'm really hoping he comes good as on paper he'd be a fantastic replacement for Doyle in the long run.

How do you get match fitness without playing matches? The u23 is nowhere near the speed of a first team game. Perhaps he should have put Ogogo out on loan himself.

 

[Effcee]

It was Kelly who pointed right for the pen ...

 

[luwalla]

I was crying out for us not to play two defensive midfielders for most of the season last year because of the impact it had on our attacking performance, especially against the lower teams.
I'm not arguing about who would be a worthy replacement anyway, I asked what it is Doyle is doing this year that the OP thinks makes him hugely important. Or, alternatively, why you think it would have a negative impact on the team as a whole if he didn't play?
I keep hearing leadership, experience etc and now also some kind of unappreciated work that only coaches can see but I think that's a very generic cliche. Leadership can come in many forms but if he's not organising the defense, if he's not bringing the best out of individuals, if his personal performances aren't raising the bar for everyone else, if we've not played well as a team for an entire match yet and in my opinion, if his actual football is restricting our attacking play both in speed and numbers involved in attack then it creates a difficult situation - you can't keep bollocking individuals and demand more from players if you're making mistakes and struggling to keep up with L1 play yourself as that respect/aura slowly erodes.

Have to disagree ... we have Baylis and thomas doing the dynamic forward stuff. Doyle plays the Mcallister role. Sits in midfield ,breaks up play, always finding space to make himself available and then very often finds a Good pass, moves it quickly (sometimes too quickly ...you can sometimes wait more Than a nano second before taking the free kick Michael!! ) and of course puts in a tackle now and then too

Yeah he might have a bad one sometimes and those might become more regular as the season/s go on, so I’m Not quite sure if he is always first name on the team sheet, but he ain’t far off it!! Still a hugely iimortant player in the team and a vital cog in the sky blue wheel

 

[Nick]

Have to disagree ... we have Baylis and thomas doing the dynamic forward stuff. Doyle plays the Mcallister role. Sits in midfield ,breaks up play, always finding space to make himself available and then very often finds a Good pass, moves it quickly (sometimes too quickly ...you can sometimes wait more Than a nano second before taking the free kick Michael!! ) and of course puts in a tackle now and then too

Yeah he might have a bad one sometimes and those might become more regular as the season/s go on, so I’m Not quite sure if he is always first name on the team sheet, but he ain’t far off it!! Still a hugely iimortant player in the team and a vital cog in the sky blue wheel

His passing isn't that great and despite his reputation he doesn't really tackle that much.

 

[cc84cov]

Spot on about Brown he’s utter garbage glad to see Mason back fit how we got rid of stokes for Brown I’ll never know...

Poor signing

 

[pipkin73]

Ogogo should be Doyles replacement but is struggling to get fitness and form back after his injury. Robins has given hin U23 and cameos in the first team to "get his mojo back". It's not working. Could he go to non league for a 3-4 week loan to play at a higher level than U23's and maybe get match and game fit? Or do all loans now have to be till January? If to Jan then we need to keep him and work on him, if he can go for 3-4 weeks I think it's the best option as he does not seem to be improving. He is Doyles replacement so until he improves Doyles has to stay in the team.

 

[stevefloyd]

Maybe its the fitness advisors that are holding Ogogo back and perhaps he is still struggling mentally to overcome his injury ...i presume we have some shrinks on hand to help !!!

 

[Warwickhunt]

Maybe its the fitness advisors that are holding Ogogo back and perhaps he is still struggling mentally to overcome his injury ...i presume we have some shrinks on hand to help !!!

Totally agree with your sentiment! In fact Andreu and Jones are similar in the fitness stakes

 

[luwalla]

His passing isn't that great and despite his reputation he doesn't really tackle that much.

I said he had often finds a decent pass and puts a decent tackle in now and then ... Id stand by both comments as a fair assessment. Depends what you are comparing him to though I guess

 

[Sick Boy]

First game of the season so thought I’d list out a few things I noticed yesterday. Obviously can’t comment on previous performances (bar the Sky games) so bear that in mind:

• Really unimpressed with Brown, doesn’t seem to be any upgrade on Stokes considering he’s supposedly meant to be one of the better LBs in the league. Terrible tackle for the pen. Seemed quite quiet and was given the run around by Lyle Taylor. Defensively a bit weak and didn’t offer much going forward
• We defended really well for most of the game. Davies is the leader and organiser of the back 4 but thought Willis and Sterling were both excellent as well.
• Doyle is still hugely important to this team in the middle and we will sorely miss him when he finally retires. Drove us on in the first half and thought he recycled possession pretty well mostly
• Not sure what JCH is bringing to the side. Neither holds it up or runs in behind, looks awkward when challenging for the ball and when he initially receives it
• Team shape looked pretty good without the ball first half although it left JCH a bit isolated at times with Chaplin dropping a bit deeper. Clueless and no ideas going forward at all until the substitutions. Bakayoko and Hiwula were excellent and made us more direct

A word on Charlton - thought they looked a very good side going forward and with a couple of their defensive players back from injury they will be right in the mix in May I’d have thought.

Fans were superb, what an atmosphere! Days like that made me wish I go to games far more often than I do currently

Davies wouldn't have been playing if Hyam hadn't got injured recently, MR is going to a dilemma when they're all match fit.