Appeal Dismissed (3 Viewers)

[Insider]

Wonder if the local media will bother informing or just ignore it hoping nobody realises.

Very quiet on the news front - as people say - the news are quick to jump in when Fisher and SISU mess up

Ultimately it isn't quite doom and gloom yet for wasps as DR looks unlikely to stop funding any shortfalls but people have a right to know and get shown that the gamble to move isn't as rosey as they make out

 

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[Insider]

Yes definitely it was discussed at length on this thread

Club aims to raise £35m from bond

TA!

So now the intriguing thing is how is the Group structured. I imagine it will be in such a way that the odds of ACL being in that position would be slim. Wonder if DR has positioned it so that whilst rugby could fail his commercial interests would be safe - I seem to recall being told that he wasn't actually that much of a rugby fan hence why more focussed on the commercial side of Wasps Holdings and increasing revenue outside of rugby

 

[Grendel]

TA!

So now the intriguing thing is how is the Group structured. I imagine it will be in such a way that the odds of ACL being in that position would be slim. Wonder if DR has positioned it so that whilst rugby could fail his commercial interests would be safe - I seem to recall being told that he wasn't actually that much of a rugby fan hence why more focussed on the commercial side of Wasps Holdings and increasing revenue outside of rugby

No ACL Hold the lease and they are part of wasps holdings.

 

[chiefdave]

Ultimately it isn't quite doom and gloom yet for wasps as DR looks unlikely to stop funding any shortfalls but people have a right to know and get shown that the gamble to move isn't as rosey as they make out

If I was a Wasps fan I would be quite concerned to be reliant on Richardson.

He's shown himself to be quite happy to move the club halfway across the country and saddle it with huge debt in an attempt to pay himself back.

Not really the actions of someone who is committed to covering multi-million pound losses year in year out. That's if he could even afford to, which is questionable.

 

[Grendel]

TA!

So now the intriguing thing is how is the Group structured. I imagine it will be in such a way that the odds of ACL being in that position would be slim. Wonder if DR has positioned it so that whilst rugby could fail his commercial interests would be safe - I seem to recall being told that he wasn't actually that much of a rugby fan hence why more focussed on the commercial side of Wasps Holdings and increasing revenue outside of rugby

His profile says he’s a huge Rugby fan

 

[Insider]

His profile says he’s a huge Rugby fan

Apparently when he started he wasn't - when he took over he stressed he was a business man first - but that is not a great image to paint

 

[Insider]

If I was a Wasps fan I would be quite concerned to be reliant on Richardson.

He's shown himself to be quite happy to move the club halfway across the country and saddle it with huge debt in an attempt to pay himself back.

Not really the actions of someone who is committed to covering multi-million pound losses year in year out. That's if he could even afford to, which is questionable.

It is rife in rugby sadly, many clubs are owned by people on whom the clubs are reliant, its a strange market where other clubs in other countries are ran by unions who provide the finances, has pros and cons but typically they can't splash out on big names so argument is they fall behind.

Some would argue that moving them across the country has cost him more and he has not attempted to recoup any of his losses at this point, in fact he has increased funds going on the report produced. That by its very nature demonstrates he is willing to increase debt, at this point in time, the question is how long for (don't forget the whole accounting issue was down to how they placed the capital injection he provided)

If it was my club I would still be deeply concerned because if he were to sell and try to not make a loss there would not be many potential suitors out there

 

[Nick]

It is rife in rugby sadly, many clubs are owned by people on whom the clubs are reliant, its a strange market where other clubs in other countries are ran by unions who provide the finances, has pros and cons but typically they can't splash out on big names so argument is they fall behind.

Some would argue that moving them across the country has cost him more and he has not attempted to recoup any of his losses at this point, in fact he has increased funds going on the report produced. That by its very nature demonstrates he is willing to increase debt, at this point in time, the question is how long for (don't forget the whole accounting issue was down to how they placed the capital injection he provided)

If it was my club I would still be deeply concerned because if he were to sell and try to not make a loss there would not be many potential suitors out there

He paid himself back £10m when he did the bonds didn't he?

 

[Insider]

He paid himself back £10m when he did the bonds didn't he?

Are you sure - I honestly don't know, just see his debt increasing year on year currently.
Would have to see the accounts pre bond and post bond to try and see that. Presume that debt will keep growing as rugby is not a sport where you will find much profit, it is why a lot of clubs look at revenue as an indicator of performance. So unless there is a substantial increase in conference events, stadium events, concerts etc - even then increase needs to be substantial

I honestly can't see how they will get out of their debt without some even bigger sugar daddy coming along and taking it all on - but hey ho - I don't know their strategic direction - there rugby is certainly pretty poor at the minute

 

[Nick]

Are you sure - I honestly don't know, just see his debt increasing year on year currently.
Would have to see the accounts pre bond and post bond to try and see that. Presume that debt will keep growing as rugby is not a sport where you will find much profit, it is why a lot of clubs look at revenue as an indicator of performance. So unless there is a substantial increase in conference events, stadium events, concerts etc - even then increase needs to be substantial

I honestly can't see how they will get out of their debt without some even bigger sugar daddy coming along and taking it all on - but hey ho - I don't know their strategic direction - there rugby is certainly pretty poor at the minute

You tell me, you are the insider.

Yes, he paid himself back £10m from the bond.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Do you reckon they're using a cheaper firm or something cos these ones are nowhere near as good.

 

[Insider]

Insider is reference to the job I do but sure! Nick I genuinely know little about Wasps other than the financial figures they announce, the fact that their rugby is pretty poor now and I really don't like them

Auditors are now Mazars - so yes

 

[Nick]

Insider is reference to the job I do but sure! Nick I genuinely know little about Wasps other than the financial figures they announce, the fact that their rugby is pretty poor now and I really don't like them

Auditors are now Mazars - so yes

Enough to sign up to post about them? This is what I don't get.

It is pretty much common knowledge he took £10m back.

 

[Insider]

Jeez - I care about sport around where I live and what Coventry and Warwickshire sports scene to thrive.
I hate the fact that a football team with a rich history has its fate effectively controlled by someone from outside the town and limits its ability to thrive
I hate the fact that Coventry Rugby resurgence is in spite of them not because of them, I also hate the fact junior rugby clubs have lost numbers to people going to wasps instead of playing

I don't particularly want them around - and you also don't get to determine why someone would want to comment on x, y or z

 

[Nick]

Jeez - I care about sport around where I live and what Coventry and Warwickshire sports scene to thrive.
I hate the fact that a football team with a rich history has its fate effectively controlled by someone from outside the town and limits its ability to thrive
I hate the fact that Coventry Rugby resurgence is in spite of them not because of them, I also hate the fact junior rugby clubs have lost numbers to people going to wasps instead of playing

I don't particularly want them around - and you also don't get to determine why someone would want to comment on x, y or z

When it's on a CCFC forum you would usually think the "why" would be because they are a CCFC fan either way so yeah, it kind of does determine.

Especially when you don't "seem" to have the first idea about it. We have seen it time and time again.

 

[Grendel]

Apparently when he started he wasn't - when he took over he stressed he was a business man first - but that is not a great image to paint

He’s a Leinster fan he claims all his life

 

[Insider]

As I said - I care about sport in local area - and so yes I follow CCFC but I wouldn't call myself a fan as football is not my first sport

Look mate if it bothers you that much delete the account - it is hardly going to upset me if Mr Nick doesn't want my comments on his board

 

[Nick]

Look mate if it bothers you that much delete the account - it is hardly going to upset me if Mr Nick doesn't want my comments on his board

Which is exactly the same as what the others have all said. Next would be moaning about "freedom of speech" and "censorship" and it's a full house.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Insider is reference to the job I do but sure! Nick I genuinely know little about Wasps other than the financial figures they announce, the fact that their rugby is pretty poor now and I really don't like them

Auditors are now Mazars - so yes

Mazars are cheaper than PwC but not that much cheaper, if I was them knowing what had taken place with PwC I'd have upped the rates anyway.

 

[Insider]

Hardly - you haven't censored anything or blocked me from typing so get down from up there... you might fall off

 

[chiefdave]

Would have to see the accounts pre bond and post bond to try and see that. Presume that debt will keep growing as rugby is not a sport where you will find much profit, it is why a lot of clubs look at revenue as an indicator of performance. So unless there is a substantial increase in conference events, stadium events, concerts etc - even then increase needs to be substantial

I honestly can't see how they will get out of their debt without some even bigger sugar daddy coming along and taking it all on - but hey ho - I don't know their strategic direction - there rugby is certainly pretty poor at the minute

Its common knowledge he paid himself back £10m. He literally moved the club from the area it had been in for over 100 years so he could get the Ricoh and load it with debt to pay himself back.

Its even been admitted, after the move of course, that they view the whole thing as a property company with a rugby club attached.

He's putting money in now for the same reason SISU have in the past. If he doesn't the whole thing collapses and he loses everything. The question is how long can he or will he keep covering huge, and increasing, losses.

If he wants to get out who takes over? As we all know normally in this situation the exiting owner is expected to write off a big chunk, if not all, of the debt to allow the new owner to start again. Problem for Wasps if the debt has been shifted to the bonds which can't just be written off, any new owner would be taking on that debt.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

I am not intimate on Wasps finances - I know about as much as anyone here - so not a lot. However I am an auditor by trade in financial services so actually do understand a lot of the subject

Try not to worry too much. Anyone who has either i) joined within the last year, or ii) has under 1,000 posts, is eyed with suspicion and considered a Wasps/Council/SISU spy/PR (delete as appropriate).

 

[Nick]

Try not to worry too much. Anyone who has either i) joined within the last year, or ii) has under 1,000 posts, is eyed with suspicion and considered a Wasps/Council/SISU spy/PR (delete as appropriate).

Or sign up just to post on things like this and probably couldn't name our players if they walked past them in the street and have no interest in the football.

You pair are quite similar really.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

Which is exactly the same as what the others have all said. Next would be moaning about "freedom of speech" and "censorship" and it's a full house.

You know what, Nick. Some people actually do know more than you on some things as difficult as it is to believe.

You constantly shout down new members. You accuse them of having ulterior motives. Get a grip for god sake, man.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

You pair are quite similar really.

Yeah, it's my fifth account here.

 

[Nick]

You know what, Nick. Some people actually do know more than you on some things as difficult as it is to believe.

You constantly shout down new members. You accuse them of having ulterior motives. Get a grip for god sake, man.

Strange, I had to tell him a few things he didn't seem to know. When somebody signs up as "insider", claims to work in the industry but doesn't seem to know the basics it stands out.

I only question new members on a CCFC forum when they don't have any interest in CCFC. There have been a few sign up and just get stuck into the match threads / asking about ticket.

When somebodies motive for being on a CCFC forum isn't CCFC, it is ulterior.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

I only question new members on a CCFC forum when they don't have any interest in CCFC.

So a new member MUST comment on a CCFC topic then? Some people have hobbies / thoughts / opinions away from CCFC and then comment on another thread as so.

Perhaps block all other forums such as 'Off Topic Chat' if you consider it to be such a problem?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Its common knowledge he paid himself back £10m. He literally moved the club from the area it had been in for over 100 years so he could get the Ricoh and load it with debt to pay himself back.

Its even been admitted, after the move of course, that they view the whole thing as a property company with a rugby club attached.

He's putting money in now for the same reason SISU have in the past. If he doesn't the whole thing collapses and he loses everything. The question is how long can he or will he keep covering huge, and increasing, losses.

If he wants to get out who takes over? As we all know normally in this situation the exiting owner is expected to write off a big chunk, if not all, of the debt to allow the new owner to start again. Problem for Wasps if the debt has been shifted to the bonds which can't just be written off, any new owner would be taking on that debt.

Never realised they played in Wycombe for 100 years; )

 

[Nick]

So a new member MUST comment on a CCFC topic then? Some people have hobbies / thoughts / opinions away from CCFC and then comment on another thread as so.

Perhaps block all other forums such as 'Off Topic Chat' if you consider it to be such a problem?

No, new posters generally sign up because of CCFC and that is their main focus. The sub forums are irrelevant.

When people signup to discuss anything but CCFC, they stand out like a sore thumb.

It really isn't hard to grasp.

 

[Liquid Gold]

So a new member MUST comment on a CCFC topic then? Some people have hobbies / thoughts / opinions away from CCFC and then comment on another thread as so.

Perhaps block all other forums such as 'Off Topic Chat' if you consider it to be such a problem?

I mean yeah, sign up on an accounting forum if that's your thing. not hard is it?

 

[chiefdave]

Never realised they played in Wycombe for 100 years; )

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

When people signup to discuss anything but CCFC, they stand out like a sore thumb.

It really isn't hard to grasp.

Fixed it for you, bro:

When people signup to discuss other things as well as CCFC, on a forum which has specific sub-forums for that very purpose, I get my judge, jury and executioner hat on because I think they stand out like a sore thumb.

It really isn't hard to grasp.

 

[chiefdave]

So a new member MUST comment on a CCFC topic then?

Not really unreasonable to think a CCFC fan who went to the trouble of signing up on a CCFC forum would post on CCFC related topics is it?

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

I mean yeah, sign up on an accounting forum if that's your thing. not hard is it?

Accountants are know-it-alls. You'd be forgiven for thinking this is an accounting forum with Nick at the helm.

 

[WhaleOilBeefHooked]

Not really unreasonable to think a CCFC fan who went to the trouble of signing up on a CCFC forum would post on CCFC related topics is it?

Of course it's not unreasonable.

However if you think people start accounts because they're on Wasps/CCC's payroll, why not restrict access until a certain post limit? It's a valid point, no? Those that have no grasp of CCFC will 'stand out like a sore thumb' after all.