It’s Jordy Hiwula time... (11 Viewers)

[steve82]

First point is this is NOT me writing Connor Chaplin off, however I’d like to see us try something different up front over the next few games. I’m keen for us to try Jordy Hiwula up front with JCH.

Here is why, he’s twice the experience of Chaplin all at L1 level too. Chaplin has 41 football league starts compared to Hiwula’s 94. That’s 4122 minutes more football played, it equates to 45 games more. That little bit more experience is what we’re after right now for me in front of goal or linking up the midfield over the 90 mins.

He’s a history of goals off both feet and is better with both feet than Chaplin who’s left footed as is JCH, where as Hiwula is right footed, this offers more balance. Hiwula is only right footed senior attacking player. (Ponticelli is the other)

Chaplin has built a reputation as a impact player and come with the tag of having a bright future, and I’ve every faith he will but for right now Hiwula has the skill set and pace to drop into that hole more centrally when MR looks for us to play a more deeper 442 to a 4411.

Hiwula looks to of transferred his goals to minutes here too

The comparable league stats are
Chaplin
115 league appearances, 41 starts 4565 mins equates to 50 games in match minutes
Scored 25 goals in league one (8) and league two (17)
Average was goal two games or every 182 mins
CCFC career 11 apps, 10 starts 881 mins. 3 goals, 293.6 mins per goal
Pre ccfc career 160 mins per goal

Hiwula
149 league appearances, 94 starts 8687 mins equates to 96.5 games in match minutes.
Scored 35 goals in league one
Average was a league goal every 2.75 games or 248 mins
CCFC career 11 apps, 8 starts 735 mins. 3 goals, 245 mins per goal
Pre ccfc career 240.9 mins per goal




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[pusbccfc]

Hiwula looks out of his depth up front.

Robins has been trying it a few times recently when he takes off Chaplin.

 

[skybluegod]

How does Chaplin get the experience if we start Hiwula is my problem? I say stick with Chaplin, understand your point, but Hiwula played once up top i think for us? In one of the cup games, and still did the same thing of dropping deep, despite being instructed by Robins to sit on the shoulder. Would say his footballing brain isn't as good as Chaplin's but that is personal opinion...

 

[steve82]

Valid point, he’s got to get them minutes. But for me he’s being asked to play a different way to what suits and we don’t have the right partner for him. With Hiwula we have a better balance in the striking department.

On the point of pusbccfc, I’m not sure how you can say he looks lost up front when that’s where he’s played his career, to me he looks lost on the wing and fragile in a defensive aspect in his own half. Plus when faced with goal he’s done well baring the glorious opportunity against Accrington that is.

Find him in between the lines and give him the opportunity to run at a defence centrally he will cause issues, this suits Robins system better currently


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[skybluegod]

Valid point, he’s got to get them minutes. But for me he’s being asked to play a different way to what suits and we don’t have the right partner for him. With Hiwula we have a better balance in the striking department.

On the point of pusbccfc, I’m not sure how you can say he looks lost up front when that’s where he’s played his career, to me he looks lost on the wing and fragile in a defensive aspect in his own half. Plus when faced with goal he’s done well baring the glorious opportunity against Accrington that is.

Find him in between the lines and give him the opportunity to run at a defence centrally he will cause issues, this suits Robins system better currently


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Problem is then, do we need yet another striker to go with Chaplin? Or is he a waste of 500k until next summer? In which case, why didn't we just wait and pick him up for less?

Has he played up front much? I might be wrong but I thought a lot of fan's from other clubs said he was utilized outwide and often as an impact sub himself?

 

[Esoterica]

I'd rather try JCH playing deeper and Chaplin higher before switching personnel. I don't know if it's a natural consequence or tactical but with Doyle so deep, it pulls Bayliss deep too and Chaplin into the hole in midfield. Would like to see JCH holding the ball up deeper where he will have players around him and can get more midfielders involved in our attacks rather than the fast breaking counter attacks involving just a couple of players that we have seen recently.

 

[steve82]

Problem is then, do we need yet another striker to go with Chaplin? Or is he a waste of 500k until next summer? In which case, why didn't we just wait and pick him up for less?

Has he played up front much? I might be wrong but I thought a lot of fan's from other clubs said he was utilized outwide and often as an impact sub himself?

From my research I’ve found he’s played more as a striker.

Jordy Hiwula - Career Statistics

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[Otis]

I agree with Esotorica.

Let's try and play Chaplin in his proper position as striker and goal-getter.

Seems to me he is going to be at his most dangerous in and around the box rather than playing deeper and going wide.

 

[Nick]

Hiwula looks out of his depth up front.

Robins has been trying it a few times recently when he takes off Chaplin.

It's hard to judge the last few minutes of a game though.

 

[skybluegod]

From my research I’ve found he’s played more as a striker.

Jordy Hiwula - Career Statistics

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Ah interesting, have just looked at it myself. Seems a chunk of the appearances came from u21 games at Huddersfield, and then in recent seasons he's been thrust around everywhere... Looks like he has been thrown on as a sub a lot of the time also, perhaps like you say up top to chase games?

 

[steve82]

I'd rather try JCH playing deeper and Chaplin higher before switching personnel. I don't know if it's a natural consequence or tactical but with Doyle so deep, it pulls Bayliss deep too and Chaplin into the hole in midfield. Would like to see JCH holding the ball up deeper where he will have players around him and can get more midfielders involved in our attacks rather than the fast breaking counter attacks involving just a couple of players that we have seen recently.

That’s a fair point, Personally i think that would make us deeper or give the opposition that extra 10/20 yards to gain a higher position.

The Doyle/Bayliss deeper thing is more tactical my eyes hence the 442 double 6. I think that style is more used than we think. Accrington do, big then that use more natural wingers to which helps the system in working


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[skybluegod]

I personally think a more fluid 4-3-3 suits the players we have... but it does rely on playing the ball on the ground for it to work...

Burge
Sterling-Davies, Willis- Brown
----------Doyle----------------
Ogogo/Kelly------Bayliss
Thomas--Chaplin--Hiwula

Obvious worry may be Chaplin up top on his own, but if the others push up i don't see it being a problem... would just have to play into feet more, which suits our players anyway as the majority are technically gifted.

 

[steve82]

Ah interesting, have just looked at it myself. Seems a chunk of the appearances came from u21 games at Huddersfield, and then in recent seasons he's been thrust around everywhere... Looks like he has been thrown on as a sub a lot of the time also, perhaps like you say up top to chase games?

Yeah I’ve looked in detail at both to get a better understanding of them individually. My stats posted were just senior games in the league only, no cup competitions or u21 games were used.

I really think Hiwula is a asset that’s not being used to full potential tho as is Chaplin


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[Nick]

That’s a fair point, Personally i think that would make us deeper or give the opposition that extra 10/20 yards to gain a higher position.

The Doyle/Bayliss deeper thing is more faction my eyes hence landed the 442 double 6. I think that style is more used than we think. Accrington do, big then that use more natural wingers to which helps the system in working


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Other teams who use it seem to be really well drilled, you can see that every time a player gets the ball they know what they want to do with it. If they play with wingers then it will be looking to get the ball to the wingers as soon as they can and then filling the box.

We seem to just give the attackers and ball and then everybody stands and watches rather than getting into the box to try and get on the end of it.

 

[steve82]

Other teams who use it seem to be really well drilled, you can see that every time a player gets the ball they know what they want to do with it. If they play with wingers then it will be looking to get the ball to the wingers as soon as they can and then filling the box.

We seem to just give the attackers and ball and then everybody stands and watches rather than getting into the box to try and get on the end of it.

Well done for decoding my thoughts. Cold fingers walking the dog...

Yes, the wingers bring the attacking play and as you say they looked drilled and fluid in approach play as a result. We are not currently


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[steve82]

I personally think a more fluid 4-3-3 suits the players we have... but it does rely on playing the ball on the ground for it to work...

Burge
Sterling-Davies, Willis- Brown
----------Doyle----------------
Ogogo/Kelly------Bayliss
Thomas--Chaplin--Hiwula

Obvious worry may be Chaplin up top on his own, but if the others push up i don't see it being a problem... would just have to play into feet more, which suits our players anyway as the majority are technically gifted.

I think this midfield has its benefits on players fit for selection currently. Obviously you can put Sterling, Davies in or Kelly on to suit when fit and JJ for that. But for Peterborough I go this

-------------Burge-------------
Grimmer--Willis---Hyam---Brown
Bayliss--Ogogo--Doyle--Thomas
---------Hiwula----JCH----------


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[Magwitch]

From what I’ve seen I think Chaplin is more of an Ian Wallace/Terry Gibson type striker (that’s going back a bit) and best suited alongside a big centre-forward, there’s all sorts of player permutations nowadays but to me I see 4-3-3 our best option, 2 strikers and a winger backed by a midfield three, which should include the midfield flair of Bayliss, reckon that would be a potent side.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Valid point, he’s got to get them minutes. But for me he’s being asked to play a different way to what suits and we don’t have the right partner for him. With Hiwula we have a better balance in the striking department.

On the point of pusbccfc, I’m not sure how you can say he looks lost up front when that’s where he’s played his career, to me he looks lost on the wing and fragile in a defensive aspect in his own half. Plus when faced with goal he’s done well baring the glorious opportunity against Accrington that is.

Find him in between the lines and give him the opportunity to run at a defence centrally he will cause issues, this suits Robins system better currently


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He’s played most of his senior football on the wings, and has thrived on the wing for the most part. Even clear cut chances he missed early on this season, he was played out wide. Until Jones is fully match fit to last 90m, he should be deployed outwide for sure.

There’s no need to change things right now, we’ve lost 1 game in the last 7 league games. It’s no good needlessly changing things.

Moving Bayliss outwide isn’t the solution, especially since Kelly isn’t fully fit either. We look better as an attacking outfit with two pacy wingers and Bayliss in the middle.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Problem is then, do we need yet another striker to go with Chaplin? Or is he a waste of 500k until next summer? In which case, why didn't we just wait and pick him up for less?

Has he played up front much? I might be wrong but I thought a lot of fan's from other clubs said he was utilized outwide and often as an impact sub himself?

How is he a ‘waste’ already? What a stupid comment. He’s already scored two ‘match winning’ goals and he’s 15 games into a 4yr contract, he’s 21. Without setting the world alight, he’s still projected to score about 11 goals this year which is pretty good.

We couldn’t have waited and signed him for cheaper because Barnsley were interested. Had MR waited and we got gazumped, people like you would be moaning teams are beating us to transfer targets. Football fans are absolutely fickle in this regard. You have no concept of the bigger picture.

JCH is also playing well so it’s a mystery why you’d want to replace him, it’s beggars belief.

If you wasn’t to have access to a league table and had to judge our league position based off the mood of this forum, you’d think we were a lower mid table team. We’re 9th, and only goal difference separates us from a playoff place at present.

 

[Esoterica]

That’s a fair point, Personally i think that would make us deeper or give the opposition that extra 10/20 yards to gain a higher position.

The Doyle/Bayliss deeper thing is more tactical my eyes hence the 442 double 6. I think that style is more used than we think. Accrington do, big then that use more natural wingers to which helps the system in working
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I think the 442 double 6 needs 2 mobile CMs to be truly effective, especially at home where there is more onus on us taking the game to the opposition. 2 players that can get box to box regularly changes the dynamic of that midfield completely. In the last 3 games I've felt that teams are wising up to our shape and coming out after halftime and dropping their defence deeper. It then stretches the midfield which is light on Coventry numbers because of how deep Doyle plays and we end up in this self-perpetuating situation of being pinned back on the edge of our own box, resort to using Thomas and Bayliss to try and fast counter attack with direct running or going long to a now isolated JCH and surrendering cheap possession back to an opposition outnumbering us in midfield.

At home especially I think we need to be braver - play higher up the pitch and play a more controlled passing game. A deeper JCH would allow Chaplin to play closer to goal, provide a strong target for Bayliss that means he doesn't have to carry the ball 50 yards himself. If it pulls the opposition defence higher up the pitch with him then good - we have 3 quick forwards in Hiwula, Thomas and Chaplin and we've seen how dangerous Thomas was last week when running in behind.
I know we've played a lot of the top 10 at home but 8 goals scored in 9 games and only once scoring 2 goals in a game is a poor return. At the moment we are sacrificing the effectiveness of our better attacking players to accomodate a 37 year old in a midfield 4 and like the first half of last season we are back to trying to nick games by an odd goal - that's a really tricky balance. With a couple of tweaks I think we could minimise the impact of Doyle's age without having to lose his leadership and become a better attacking unit for 90 minutes, not just a half.

For me playing Hiwula up front instead of Chaplin is just doing what Robins has done in the last few games with his subs - shuffling the pack not addressing the underlying cracks.

 

[Nick]

How is he a ‘waste’ already? What a stupid comment. He’s already scored two ‘match winning’ goals and he’s 15 games into a 4yr contract, he’s 21. Without setting the world alight, he’s still projected to score about 11 goals this year which is pretty good.

We couldn’t have waited and signed him for cheaper because Barnsley were interested. Had MR waited and we got gazumped, people like you would be moaning teams are beating us to transfer targets. Football fans are absolutely fickle in this regard. You have no concept of the bigger picture.

JCH is also playing well so it’s a mystery why you’d want to replace him, it’s beggars belief.

If you wasn’t to have access to a league table and had to judge our league position based off the mood of this forum, you’d think we were a lower mid table team. We’re 9th, and only goal difference separates us from a playoff place at present.

People are judging it off watching matches though, they are observations about what happens during each game. So after the game people discuss what went on, what they thought didn't work, what did work.

I dont think he was saying he is a waste, he was asking the question.

 

[covcity4life]

i would like to see chaplin play upfront before i judge him

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

We need a chart from Philosorapter to confirm which position would suit each player best.

 

[Nick]

We need a chart from Philosorapter to confirm which position would suit each player best.

6545. Enough said.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

i would like to see chaplin play upfront before i judge him

 

[Nick]

View attachment 10988

Judge Rinder probably knows more about football.

 

[cc84cov]

I think people forget service is a problem we don’t create enough play Chaplin with a proper No.9 as we were told by all Pompey fans he will score goals.

 

[skybluegod]

How is he a ‘waste’ already? What a stupid comment. He’s already scored two ‘match winning’ goals and he’s 15 games into a 4yr contract, he’s 21. Without setting the world alight, he’s still projected to score about 11 goals this year which is pretty good.

We couldn’t have waited and signed him for cheaper because Barnsley were interested. Had MR waited and we got gazumped, people like you would be moaning teams are beating us to transfer targets. Football fans are absolutely fickle in this regard. You have no concept of the bigger picture.

JCH is also playing well so it’s a mystery why you’d want to replace him, it’s beggars belief.

If you wasn’t to have access to a league table and had to judge our league position based off the mood of this forum, you’d think we were a lower mid table team. We’re 9th, and only goal difference separates us from a playoff place at present.

I didn't say he was a waste already. I was responding to Steve, as he said he doesn't fit the current style. So i said IF that is the case, it would be a waste of money, if he were to simply dropped now. I don't believe that, I have never said I believe that, and in fact feel free to look through all of my posts and I have always said Chaplin will come good, has the best footballing brain of all our strikers, and will come good.

If you are going to go off on one you should probably read posts properly...

Barnsley never put in a bid, so please feel free to provide evidence?

Again don't make accusations with no substance, people like me are he only ones who have never slagged off a player, or complained about not getting targets, or slagged off Robins. I think Chaplin will be seen as a shrewd signing in the coming seasons. But we need a partner for him who isn't JCH IMO.

JCH, doesn't score and while he does have attributes he isn't the best partner for Chaplin imo. I want a different partner for Chaplin, but have never said to get rid of JCH.

Again another unsubstantiated comment, I have said all season long, that we will do ok this season. I don't think we will be promoted but I wasn't expecting it. We are doing well we have our weaknesses as every team does, and our young players need some more experience. With a couple more additions like a partner for Chaplin I think we will get promoted next season.

Please learn to read before throwing around insults

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

People are judging it off watching matches though, they are observations about what happens during each game. So after the game people discuss what went on, what they thought didn't work, what did work.

I dont think he was saying he is a waste, he was asking the question.

People are judging it off watching matches though, they are observations about what happens during each game. So after the game people discuss what went on, what they thought didn't work, what did work.

I dont think he was saying he is a waste, he was asking the question.

It was a rhetorical question which certainly seemed to insinuate that he’s a ‘waste’. Otherwise, why ask it?

Yep, but as we’ve seen with the ‘prehistoric Robins...’ thread, it’s pretty clear there’s a lot of people on here who overreact and exaggerate our shortcomings.

This season, as a newly promoted team we sit just outside of the playoffs on GD and Robins comes in for quite a lot of stick, and you’re a vocal critic. He’s taken us from useless relegated trash, to the fringes of L1 playoffs in just over one season. Trust the process despite the minor setbacks, we have a really young side which will improve.

I don’t think us Cov fans actually appreciate what a massive achievement promotion was last year, at all. The quick turnaround was a massive task which wasn’t helped by injuries at all. Our L2 experience could’ve been akin to Portsmouth or Bradford if it weren’t for Robins. The Portsmouth example brings me into my next point.

What is our expectations for this season? If we’re criticising a manager (as much as we do) who is on the verge of playoffs, you’d think that the minimum expectation on this forum is playoffs. Which, I’d argue is unreasonable and unrealistic, even if is potentially doable. Looking at a team like Portsmouth, they ended up mid table and are now top of the league because they’ve consolidated last year. We’re still in that promotion transition so at this stage, I’d say we’re performing above expectations.

 

[Nick]

It was a rhetorical question which certainly seemed to insinuate that he’s a ‘waste’. Otherwise, why ask it?

Yep, but as we’ve seen with the ‘prehistoric Robins...’ thread, it’s pretty clear there’s a lot of people on here who overreact and exaggerate our shortcomings.

This season, as a newly promoted team we sit just outside of the playoffs on GD and Robins comes in for quite a lot of stick, and you’re a vocal critic. He’s taken us from useless relegated trash, to the fringes of L1 playoffs in just over one season. Trust the process despite the minor setbacks, we have a really young side which will improve.

I don’t think us Cov fans actually appreciate what a massive achievement promotion was last year, at all. The quick turnaround was a massive task which wasn’t helped by injuries at all. Our L2 experience could’ve been akin to Portsmouth or Bradford if it weren’t for Robins. The Portsmouth example brings me into my next point.

What is our expectations for this season? If we’re criticising a manager (as much as we do) who is on the verge of playoffs, you’d think that the minimum expectation on this forum is playoffs. Which, I’d argue is unreasonable and unrealistic, even if is potentially doable. Looking at a team like Portsmouth, they ended up mid table and are now top of the league because they’ve consolidated last year. We’re still in that promotion transition so at this stage, I’d say we’re performing above expectations.

How is it overreacting and exaggerating by discussing things that aren't working?

 

[steve82]

He’s played most of his senior football on the wings, and has thrived on the wing for the most part. Even clear cut chances he missed early on this season, he was played out wide. Until Jones is fully match fit to last 90m, he should be deployed outwide for sure.

There’s no need to change things right now, we’ve lost 1 game in the last 7 league games. It’s no good needlessly changing things.

Moving Bayliss outwide isn’t the solution, especially since Kelly isn’t fully fit either. We look better as an attacking outfit with two pacy wingers and Bayliss in the middle.

No of his 94 senior starts (prior to burton) 69 were as a striker, and we already know 8 of them we’re on the wings here for ccfc.

I understand your logic with the issue of the left wing then but I feel he’d occupy that hole where Chaplin has found himself playing in, he’d play better from the attacking intent we’ve seen down the wing.

I’m not necessarily looking to rip up the way we play, just feel Hiwula could be utilised for the better in the way MR has us playing currently.

I think the future of Hiwula is in that more central role


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[steve82]

I think the 442 double 6 needs 2 mobile CMs to be truly effective, especially at home where there is more onus on us taking the game to the opposition. 2 players that can get box to box regularly changes the dynamic of that midfield completely. In the last 3 games I've felt that teams are wising up to our shape and coming out after halftime and dropping their defence deeper. It then stretches the midfield which is light on Coventry numbers because of how deep Doyle plays and we end up in this self-perpetuating situation of being pinned back on the edge of our own box, resort to using Thomas and Bayliss to try and fast counter attack with direct running or going long to a now isolated JCH and surrendering cheap possession back to an opposition outnumbering us in midfield.

At home especially I think we need to be braver - play higher up the pitch and play a more controlled passing game. A deeper JCH would allow Chaplin to play closer to goal, provide a strong target for Bayliss that means he doesn't have to carry the ball 50 yards himself. If it pulls the opposition defence higher up the pitch with him then good - we have 3 quick forwards in Hiwula, Thomas and Chaplin and we've seen how dangerous Thomas was last week when running in behind.
I know we've played a lot of the top 10 at home but 8 goals scored in 9 games and only once scoring 2 goals in a game is a poor return. At the moment we are sacrificing the effectiveness of our better attacking players to accomodate a 37 year old in a midfield 4 and like the first half of last season we are back to trying to nick games by an odd goal - that's a really tricky balance. With a couple of tweaks I think we could minimise the impact of Doyle's age without having to lose his leadership and become a better attacking unit for 90 minutes, not just a half.

For me playing Hiwula up front instead of Chaplin is just doing what Robins has done in the last few games with his subs - shuffling the pack not addressing the underlying cracks.

Yes agree two mobile midfielders and natural wingers makes that midfield far greater, MR pretty much said this after Burton when he gave the reasons for taking Doyle off....

1) the fresh legs of Ogogo with Bayliss he’d hoped would push us up the pitch and give us some possession to create a opening if the players made the right choices.
2) Doyle was on a booking, and Burton were dictating play very well knocking the ball past us freely so made the positive change with the fresh legs of Ogogo while also avoiding the inevitable second yellow.

I see your point on Doyle too but we’re struggling to keep a fit midfielder to dislodge Doyle to change anything in the middle.

Be interesting if we’ve plans and targets in January.


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[cc84cov]

Biamou & Chaplin would of been the better pairing rather than JCH.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I didn't say he was a waste already. I was responding to Steve, as he said he doesn't fit the current style. So i said IF that is the case, it would be a waste of money, if he were to simply dropped now. I don't believe that, I have never said I believe that, and in fact feel free to look through all of my posts and I have always said Chaplin will come good, has the best footballing brain of all our strikers, and will come good.

If you are going to go off on one you should probably read posts properly...

Barnsley never put in a bid, so please feel free to provide evidence?

Again don't make accusations with no substance, people like me are he only ones who have never slagged off a player, or complained about not getting targets, or slagged off Robins. I think Chaplin will be seen as a shrewd signing in the coming seasons. But we need a partner for him who isn't JCH IMO.

JCH, doesn't score and while he does have attributes he isn't the best partner for Chaplin imo. I want a different partner for Chaplin, but have never said to get rid of JCH.

Again another unsubstantiated comment, I have said all season long, that we will do ok this season. I don't think we will be promoted but I wasn't expecting it. We are doing well we have our weaknesses as every team does, and our young players need some more experience. With a couple more additions like a partner for Chaplin I think we will get promoted next season.

Please learn to read before throwing around insults

Meow, very sassy.

Can’t really follow the thread of what you’re trying to say exactly. Why would he potentially be a ‘waste’ if you’re also ‘convinced’ he’ll come good in the coming seasons?

Maybe they didn’t put a bid in, but I think as sources go, the words of the Barnsley manager is pretty concrete. It’s not like our bid for Hiwula was public knowledge, he signed out of nowhere. Nor was our bid for Chaplin public knowledge either — our interest was, and thanks to our Portsmouth friends we found a deal was in place. But was a bid public? The details came out after the matter iirc.

Barnsley boss makes Conor Chaplin transfer claim ahead of City clash

There’s nothing in the post you quoted that suggests you slag off players. But your critique of JCH is wrong. He’s roughly scoring 1 in 4 too so both are set to score about 10 goals. That’s decent. But, if you’re saying we ‘need’ a new striker is pretty much saying he isn’t good enough, implicitly. So far, Hiwula, Chaplin and JCH are all roughly on for 10 goals each, that would be a v good return in my book. Having 3 decent goal scorers in a team is better than one outstanding goal scorer in a team.

Despite quoting you, my last paragraph was strictly a generalised comment.

How is it overreacting and exaggerating by discussing things that aren't working?

We’re 9th place and have lost 1 game in the last 7. What’s failing exactly? In the bigger picture, what is a goal for this season? Is it top half? Mid table? Well, that’s where we are so we’re succeeding in our goals on that basis.

We don’t score many goals, which is offset by us having one of the best defences in the league.

 

[Nick]

Biamou & Chaplin would of been the better pairing rather than JCH.

Biamou and Bakayoko.

Just to watch people explode with anger.