Ignorant moron... (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter dadgad
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We'll_live_and_die
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Warnock had said at Cardiff City Stadium: "I don't know why politicians don't do what the country wanted, if I'm honest.
"They had a referendum and now we see different politicians and everyone else trying to put their foot in it.
"Why did we have a referendum in the first place?
"I can't wait to get out of it, if I'm honest. I think we'll be far better out of the thing - in every aspect, football-wise as well, absolutely.
"To hell with the rest of the world."
vow
Well-Known Member
Apart from the last two sentences, I agree with his opinion.
We had a vote on Brexit, Leave won, get on with it.
No one 100% knows how it will turn out, unless they have a crystal ball....
My own opinion is possibly short term financial pain, then hopefully mid to long term gain. Also, if we make mistakes along the way, it's our own mistake and not Brussels decision making.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Ah another Brexit thread.
Can never have enough!
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Otis
Well-Known Member
I do think there IS an ignorance and I dare say that some who are saying 'Just get on with it and we voted leave, so let's leave' will be the first to moan and criticise the government if and when things do start going wrong after leaving.
I just don't get all the hullabaloo, I really don't.
As Nicky Campbell said on 5Live this morning to all those callers who were saying just get on with it, 'Just get on with what exactly?'
Nearly everyone is saying that May's deal is a bad deal. Do people really want all the politicians to vote for something they believe will be very bad for the country?
If the wording of the vote 3 years ago had been 'Do you want to leave the EU no matter how bad the deal is to leave? Do you want to leave the EU at any cost? ' would people still have voted yes as a majority then?
I can't see that if you are an MP and you believe that a yes vote would be very detrimental to the country's fortunes that you would be able to vote yes.
If it is the right deal and a good deal for the country , then yes, of course the vote should honoured.
MP's simply cannot just accept a bad deal though and like I say, the minute things go wrong after, many of these leave voters will immediately be blaming the MP's and the government.
I really don't get all the anger at all. Of course we should accept the mandate, but it has to be a good deal for the UK surely doesn't it?
It surely can't be at 'whatever cost'.
And for those reasons I see no problem with MP's voting down May's deal.
I just don't get all the hullabaloo, I really don't.
As Nicky Campbell said on 5Live this morning to all those callers who were saying just get on with it, 'Just get on with what exactly?'
Nearly everyone is saying that May's deal is a bad deal. Do people really want all the politicians to vote for something they believe will be very bad for the country?
If the wording of the vote 3 years ago had been 'Do you want to leave the EU no matter how bad the deal is to leave? Do you want to leave the EU at any cost? ' would people still have voted yes as a majority then?
I can't see that if you are an MP and you believe that a yes vote would be very detrimental to the country's fortunes that you would be able to vote yes.
If it is the right deal and a good deal for the country , then yes, of course the vote should honoured.
MP's simply cannot just accept a bad deal though and like I say, the minute things go wrong after, many of these leave voters will immediately be blaming the MP's and the government.
I really don't get all the anger at all. Of course we should accept the mandate, but it has to be a good deal for the UK surely doesn't it?
It surely can't be at 'whatever cost'.
And for those reasons I see no problem with MP's voting down May's deal.
Quite right. Trouble is if you voted leave you are going to feel cheated because that was a binary choice. Now, some of us, not Neil Warnock evidently, may have an inkling what Brexit means and will result in; lower living standards, more years of Tory misrule, more austerity, less educational opportunity, private health care, etc. As a society we desperately need a transformative agenda that will address the causes of Brexit whether we leave or not.
vow
Well-Known Member
Indeed I won't and have never worried about the short, mid or long term of Brexit, thanks for caring though.
vow
Well-Known Member
In answer to your's and Nicky's question 'Just get on with what exactly?'
Get on with making the best possible deal for the UK to leave the EU.
And no, I won't be the first to "moan" or "criticise" the Goverment if and when things go wrong after leaving as I've always seen it as a mid to long term project.
Let's keep having referendum's until the "correct" result occurs, infact while we're at it, why not have a General Election every two month's when the party in power don't stick to thier manifesto's they promised?
Yours sincerely,
An ignorant voter.
P.S. Do you know where I can get one of those Crystal Balls from, please?
Otis
Well-Known Member
Ah, but that IS what is trying to be made happen, to make the best deal. Unfortunately, Vow, there are many not like you who are just saying 'get out and leave ' with no thought of the consequences.
As I quite rightly said (imho) we should honour the vote of the people, but that doesn't just mean leave at any cost.
It has to be the right deal.
Otis
Well-Known Member
And which is also why I said 'some'
Seems you are not in that group I am talking about, Vow and that's fine.
I also never mentioned another referendum.
I hear some every day though on 5 Live and when the TV news go round towns asking the public, table thumping, getting rather annoyed and saying 'Just leave!'
Surely we all want the very best deal for the country.
I don't see why we have to leave on Mar 29. What's wrong with an extension to Article 50, more negotiation and us leaving on 29th July, or 29th September , or whenever?
As people are saying the implications of this would affect a generation (to its detriment or not), we need to ensure we go out on the very best terms we can achieve.
May's deal does not have the full backing, not even of her own party. The DUP are against it, many of her own Tories are against it, the Labour party are against it, Plyd Cmru, the SNP, Lub Dems and Greens.
If we are to carry out the will of the people let it be on the very best terms we can leave the EU with and let's get it right for the next generation.
Seems you are not in that group I am talking about, Vow and that's fine.
I also never mentioned another referendum.
I hear some every day though on 5 Live and when the TV news go round towns asking the public, table thumping, getting rather annoyed and saying 'Just leave!'
Surely we all want the very best deal for the country.
I don't see why we have to leave on Mar 29. What's wrong with an extension to Article 50, more negotiation and us leaving on 29th July, or 29th September , or whenever?
As people are saying the implications of this would affect a generation (to its detriment or not), we need to ensure we go out on the very best terms we can achieve.
May's deal does not have the full backing, not even of her own party. The DUP are against it, many of her own Tories are against it, the Labour party are against it, Plyd Cmru, the SNP, Lub Dems and Greens.
If we are to carry out the will of the people let it be on the very best terms we can leave the EU with and let's get it right for the next generation.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
We voted in 2016. If it's extended any longer it will be new GE and a reason to hold another vote. The result needs to be carried through whether good or bad to uphold our democratic system. If it doesn't work out I havery no problem at all with a new government suggesting we vote again and may decide to re-enter but we must exit first imo.
To take the point Otis made about the first to complain, not a chance! So many on remain side waiting for it to go wrong to say I told you so, will be at the front of that queue. In fact I'd happily wafer that ludicrously there are a growing number who want it to fail!
To take the point Otis made about the first to complain, not a chance! So many on remain side waiting for it to go wrong to say I told you so, will be at the front of that queue. In fact I'd happily wafer that ludicrously there are a growing number who want it to fail!
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Oi you lot, go and argue with Astute and mart in the Brexit thread.
Otis
Well-Known Member
What I find ludicrous though, Rob, is the notion we should just get out even if it is totally disastrous to our economy and does real damage to the country.
You would take all that just so the will of the people can be upheld?
If we are leaving and it will affect the people of this county for the next 30-50 years, what difference does a few more weeks or months make?
And you don't know if it will be a new General Election and even if is that doesn't mean Labour will get in.
To my mind, a delay could well result on a better deal.
MP's simply cannot and should not vote for a deal they believe will be very much to the detriment of their constituents.
The deal should be voted down.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Yep so long as it’s not kicked into the long grass and we sit on it until a few months before the deadline
vow
Well-Known Member
Indeed, it was aimed at some and not you, toby fayre.:kiss:
vow
Well-Known Member
Sod that!
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
It's one of the things that annoys me - when politicians (especially hard line brexiteers) etc go on the news and say "this isn't the Brexit the British public voted for".
What Brexit DID the British public vote for exactly? I don't remember it being a pick and mix and there being choices as to whether there were bits you wanted to keep and bits you wanted to lose. You talk to anyone who voted leave and each person will give you a different answer why they voted that way. Some wanted immigration control, some wanted less EU bureaucracy, some felt we were sending too much money, some wanted control of our own legislation. There are some who want to keep some parts of what they perceive as benefits of being in the EU but not others.
There were a number of reasons I voted remain but one of them was that I couldn't vote for something that didn't tell me what exactly I was voting for.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
And what exactly IS that deal then? As I've said above everyone had a different reason for voting leave so therefore any deal is likely to please one leave voter and enrage another.
It's therefore hardly surprising that no deal can be made because no-one wants the same thing. If the deal doesn't cover what you wanted to leave the EU for you're going to reject it. Add those people onto those who want to remain and very quickly you end up with a majority of people not wanting that deal. It's very clear to me that it's no deal or nothing.
But I don't buy into the apocalyptic view of no deal - I don't think it'll prove advantageous to us, in the short to mid term especially, but there are plenty of countries we don't have trade deals with and trade on WTO rules. We can get by and the main reason we would struggle is people (often those with the least to worry about in these situations) panicking and causing serious financial and economic stress with knee jerk reactions.
If fact I think one of the perks of Brexit could be it will diminish our massive over-reliance on the financial sector.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Another thing that annoys me is the whole "British people regaining control of British laws" brigade in parliament. Don't think it's right that the EU have such a say in our legislation but when someone suggests letting the British public have a say on the ACTUAL deal to leave the EU rather than some half-arsed generic sentiment all of a sudden they're dead against delegating power and control further and it should be for government/parliament to decide.
Always been the same - even Magna Carta was basically "power should be shared out as far as us and no further"
Always been the same - even Magna Carta was basically "power should be shared out as far as us and no further"
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
Of course we as ordinary citizens will have no more power even if/when we ‘take back control from Brussels’. What recent events have shown, no matter whose manifesto you vote for at a general election the MP you helped elect will go their own way.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Agree entirely but at least with that there is a manifesto to be used to hold them accountable to next time. This is like putting out a manifesto the entirety of which is "why not vote for us. The current lot aren't great are they".
Otis
Well-Known Member
You forgot the low IQ tub thumpers who just wanted foreigners out of the country and as soon as the vote was won were actually going up to any foreign looking person and saying 'Now get out of my country'.
Unfortunately, a lot of low IQ tub thumpers were Labour supporters.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I do not think anyone would be against that as long as a remain option is not included
Grendel
Well-Known Member
What reasons did you want it voted down?
The Lurker
Well-Known Member
tell you what’s ignorant. ignoring the vote of the British public
The Lurker
Well-Known Member
we voted to stay or leave the EU. we voted leave. that’s what should happen. at the time no deals were mentioned. It was stay or leave. Simple. all this bollox of deals is irrevant