Article by Henry Winter (3 Viewers)

SkyBlueSoul

Well-Known Member
Football fans need help in their fight against bad owners

Couldn’t see this anywhere, apologies if I’ve missed it. Talks about the usual suspects like Blackpool, Charlton, Blackburn and us. You need to sign in so I’ve put it below with the bit about us in bold:



Two men with a ladder did the honours at Bloomfield Road yesterday, one holding the steps steady, the other climbing up and removing an advertisement for Oyston’s estate agency. It will take longer to expunge completely the taint of the Oyston family on this famous old ground but thanks to Blackpool’s indefatigable supporters, the fumigation process is under way.

Invited to join “the big clean-up”, fans reported eagerly for duty to clear the North Stand, some clutching tangerine buckets. As fans prepared to return to the stadium after the ousting of the Oystons, the cleansing was symbolic as well as much needed. Scrubbing away the guilt of the authorities will take rather longer.

It is a stain on the name of the EFL, arguably the Premier League initially, that it failed to act when it became apparent that the Oystons’ running of the club involved running it down. The EFL meets tomorrow to decide whether to deduct points from Blackpool for going into receivership, a possibility causing understandable outrage as the League itself failed to call the odious Oystons to account, to question their motives and antics, to ask where all the Premier League money had gone.

Blackpool Supporters’ Trust, and tireless “Oyston Out” campaigners such as its chairman Christine Seddon, showed more backbone, showing up EFL inaction.

It is the fans who are the true guardians of the game, protecting clubs, promoting integrity, cherishing history and resisting the charlatans. It is the fans who shake buckets and raise funds, organise boycotts, lobby MPs, and print up protest paraphernalia, even ensuring they have the required fire certificates to take banners into grounds.


The EFL, FA and Premier League should think about the two men and a ladder, and the tens of thousands of supporters protesting about controversial owners from Blackpool to Bolton Wanderers, Charlton Athletic to Coventry City, Port Vale and beyond.

Many well-intentioned people inhabit the corridors of power, and some follow clubs who have slid down the pyramid thanks to uncaring, unthinking owners, yet the leadership of these national bodies have let them, the clubs and the game down. They stand accused of being Neros in blazers, fiddling while clubs burn.


The governance of English football is at a key moment. The three main footballing authorities interview for new chief executives, who could, if enlightened, make a real difference to safeguarding clubs. If the Premier League simply seeks an exec who does not worry about the soul of the game, or the match-going supporters, just somebody who can get top dollar, pound or yen from broadcasters, then it is to be hoped the FA and EFL appoint individuals with some empathy with the game, with the character to stand up to those owners harming clubs.

It’s happening again, the curse of unpopular owners now striking at Vale.

Fans march from Burslem Town Hall to Vale Park, opposing the retired businessman Norman Smurthwaite, demanding to know where recent windfalls, from the sale of Jordan Hugill and Checkatrade and FA Cup runs, have gone and why he won’t sell at a sensible price.

Last weekend during the League Two game at Notts County’s Meadow Lane, 1,200 travelling Vale fans chanted “Norman Smurthwaite, get out of our club”.

These are passionate fans, mobilising to defend their club, taking it in their stride when Vale Social gets flooded so the Supporters’ Club meeting is moved to Burslem Golf Club. “We are facing football oblivion,” the supporters’ club chairman Mark Porter told the gathering. Vale are perilously close to slipping into non-League.

Echoing Manchester United fans’ early “green and gold” protest against the unloved Glazer family, Vale supporters adopted their historic colours “Black and Gold Until It’s Sold”. The Stoke Sentinel ran a “Vale in Crisis” series and although Vale’s travails have not registered widely on the national agenda, their problems fill another episode in the tragi-drama afflicting the game.

Take Charlton Athletic, a once model club turned into a soap opera by the Belgian businessmen Roland Duchâtelet, whose recent utterances, including the proposal of selling the club to the EFL, suggest somebody bordering on the deluded. Again, fans have rallied to their club’s aid, and if some of their more extreme tactics have cost them some sympathy, at least Charlton devotees have acted while the EFL hesitates.

The game is crying out for leaders with courage. The old notion that it is an owner’s business to do with a club as he or she sees fit is outdated and morally wrong anyway. Trashing a club is bringing the game into disrepute. The EFL should be having a word with Ken Anderson, the rather strange owner of Bolton Wanderers. Life is bleeding from the Championship club. “Bolton close training ground because of food shortage,” read the headline in The Bolton News yesterday. Staff have not been paid for February. As the authorities look on, it is left to the Bolton Wanderers Supporters’ Trust to consider having a (large) whip-round to help. The authorities plead it is out of their hands, that the Owners’ and Directors’ test, the check formerly known as the Fit and Proper Persons’ test, means that, effectively, they can allow anybody to swan in and mess about with an English institution providing they don’t have a criminal record. As the sad, old saying in football goes, Robert Mugabe could buy an English club and the EFL would wave him through.


The FA, supposedly the guardian of the game, should become more involved, asking more questions. How is Sisu, the wretched hedge fund draining the life from Coventry City, allowed to get away with years of silence, litigation, and damaging a historic club? Because the authorities did not act. Is Joy Seppala, chief executive of Sisu, one of the most loathed people in football, standing accused of utter contempt for Coventry fans and English football?

Yes, and the EFL and FA should have summoned Seppala to explain her plans for Coventry. Is Seppala really as heartless as depicted? All the signs are that she is. Get out of our sport.

It should embarrass the EFL that Coventry have to inform the League by today where they will be playing next season. It could be the Ricoh, owned by the rugby club Wasps, who will not extend the lease because of Sisu legal wrangles, or elsewhere. Coventry council leader George Duggins, of Longford Ward, Coventry, pleaded with Sisu not to “play Russian roulette with the future of our great football club”. There have even been questions in the House. But not enough from the EFL. So it has been left to fans to campaign and pray. Coventry would be dead without their supporters, waving their “Save Our Club” placards.

And how would officials at the EFL, the Premier League and the FA feel if a name so synonymous with the heart of football, who brought in some of the most significant innovations in the game such as all-seater stands, disappeared on their watch? Shame.


Clubs can survive bad owners, like Leyton Orient in the Francesco Becchetti era and Portsmouth under the questionable likes of Vladimir Antonov, through the constancy of fans. O’s supporters stayed loyal and now have proper owners in Nigel Travis and Kent Teague. Pompey Supporters’ Trust saved a national treasure with all the commitment and expertise of those who raised the Mary Rose. The Eisner family, mainly the American businessman Michael and his son Eric, have come in and proved capable and caring owners of Portsmouth. Importantly, they listen and engage, and genuinely seem to enjoy the Pompey experience.

Years of protests appear to have paid off at Ewood Park where Blackburn Rovers’ owners, Venky’s, the Indian family poultry firm, seem to have heeded fans’ anger at their chaotic management. They are not interfering, they are not listening to the wrong people, not relying on agents with agendas, and Ewood Park is a much better place. One family member quietly travels to Ewood to watch games. Yet Rovers fans understandably are cautious. It seems only yesterday they were smuggling chickens on to the pitch to hold up games and holding up banners reading “Made in Blackburn, Destroyed in India”.

The authorities, including the three new leaders when appointed, must begin to follow fans in standing up to rogue owners and, if necessary, getting the ladder out and bringing them down a peg or two.
 

Nick

Administrator
While people will get excited by it and "plight" what does he want the EFL to do about our situation? It's his usual one sided rhetoric with information fed from the Trust which doesn't usually help.

Why would it embarrass the EFL? What can they do? Maybe he could lobby with some examples of what the EFL can do to realistically prevent things?
 

letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
Charlton fans outside ELF today protesting after their owner said ELF should but the club.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
Charlton fans outside ELF today protesting after their owner said ELF should but the club.
giphy.gif
 

ohitsaidwalker king power

Well-Known Member
While people will get excited by it and "plight" what does he want the EFL to do about our situation? It's his usual one sided rhetoric with information fed from the Trust which doesn't usually help.

Why would it embarrass the EFL? What can they do? Maybe he could lobby with some examples of what the EFL can do to realistically prevent things?

Rhetoric? I'm disappointed.
What can they do(EFL)...? remove the golden share from SISU on the basis of "fit and proper ownership" failure.. sorted.
 

Nick

Administrator
Rhetoric? I'm disappointed.
What can they do(EFL)...? remove the golden share from SISU on the basis of "fit and proper ownership" failure.. sorted.

On what basis?

This is the problem with articles like this, they just hint at the EFL doing stuff without really expanding or going into details.

The EFL aren't and cannot just say "We will be taking the club back and handing it to somebody else".
 

ohitsaidwalker king power

Well-Known Member
On what basis?

This is the problem with articles like this, they just hint at the EFL doing stuff without really expanding or going into details.

The EFL aren't and cannot just say "We will be taking the club back and handing it to somebody else".
Why not?... point being... does their fit and proper persons test need recalibration.. isn't our "plight" evidence of that?
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
Rhetoric? I'm disappointed.
What can they do(EFL)...? remove the golden share from SISU on the basis of "fit and proper ownership" failure.. sorted.
That's not what that test is. To change it so they're able to take a club off someone they would need 75% of chairmen to agree, that's unlikely to happen.

This basic misunderstanding doesn't help us. We all agree the EFL should be better but nobody has come forward with a viable solution that doesn't fundamentally change the sport.
 

Nick

Administrator
Why not?... point being... does their fit and proper persons test need recalibration.. isn't our "plight" evidence of that?

This is the problem with articles like this and all of the #fansunited stuff that bounces around shouting at the EFL. Nobody ever really goes into details on what the EFL can realistically do so it ends up with this.

On what basis would our situation at the minute fail a fit and proper persons test? On what basis would the EFL say "We are taking the club off you and handing it to somebody else"?
 

Nick

Administrator
That's not what that test is. To change it so they're able to take a club off someone they would need 75% of chairmen to agree, that's unlikely to happen.

This basic misunderstanding doesn't help us. We all agree the EFL should be better but nobody has come forward with a viable solution that doesn't fundamentally change the sport.

That still isn't taking a club off somebody and handing it to somebody else, they don't have the power.

They just kick the club out of the EFL.
 

ohitsaidwalker king power

Well-Known Member
That's not what that test is. To change it so they're able to take a club off someone they would need 75% of chairmen to agree, that's unlikely to happen.

This basic misunderstanding doesn't help us. We all agree the EFL should be better but nobody has come forward with a viable solution that doesn't fundamentally change the sport.
I think I'm challenging the test then.. isn't Henry?
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
That still isn't taking a club off somebody and handing it to somebody else, they don't have the power.

They just kick the club out of the EFL.
As I understand it to be able to hand a club to someone else they would need to change their rules which would need approval of 75% of members. I get the difference with us being removed from the league due to being homeless, I just believe the rules are the same.
 

Nick

Administrator
I think I'm challenging the test then.. isn't Henry?

Not really challenging anything, it's just shouting EFL over and over and getting people who don't really understand it worked up.

If he was to use his position and explain exactly what the EFL can do it would be more of a challenge for them.
 

Nick

Administrator
As I understand it to be able to hand a club to someone else they would need to change their rules which would need approval of 75% of members. I get the difference with us being removed from the league due to being homeless, I just believe the rules are the same.

Ah for the rule change to do make it within their power!

Then you have the questions, how can they legally enforce it anyway and at what point can they remove a club and hand it over to somebody else?

Like you say, football would have to be reformed from the ground up and get away from limited companies.
 

ohitsaidwalker king power

Well-Known Member
Not really challenging anything, it's just shouting EFL over and over and getting people who don't really understand it worked up.

If he was to use his position and explain exactly what the EFL can do it would be more of a challenge for them.

Maybe he is doing just that.. isn't he?.. using his trade and tools to kick start/maintain a debate thats long overdue....it's how policy and process changes in a democracy? He can't change it alone.. I'm not suggesting that at all...I'm quizzical as to why so much vitriol is displayed towards him... suggesting he is influenced by "the trust" is that with any foundation?
 

Nick

Administrator
Maybe he is doing just that.. isn't he?.. using his trade and tools to kick start/maintain a debate thats long overdue....it's how policy and process changes in a democracy? He can't change it alone.. I'm not suggesting that at all...I'm quizzical as to why so much vitriol is displayed towards him... suggesting he is influenced by "the trust" is that with any foundation?

Is that not where he gets his information from a lot of the time?

He isn't really doing anything with that article other than getting people worked up and a confused. Hence people start demanding the EFL take the club off CCFC and hand it over to somebody else and random things like that.
 

ohitsaidwalker king power

Well-Known Member

Is that not where he gets his information from a lot of the time?
I don't know.. you seem to have assumed that in your conclusions.... So you have no evidence of that at all?
He isn't really doing anything with that article other than getting people worked up and a confused. Hence people start demanding the EFL take the club off CCFC and hand it over to somebody else and random things like that.
Our very constitution is based on freedom of speech and the ability of individuals to lobby governing bodies in all walks of life journalists included.. my own conclusion is far from yours in that I welcome the exposure by such a respected journalist to maintain the "plight" of our football club.. I do not consider that as a negative in any regard.
 

Nick

Administrator
Is that not where he gets his information from a lot of the time?
I don't know.. you seem to have assumed that in your conclusions.... So you have no evidence of that at all?
He isn't really doing anything with that article other than getting people worked up and a confused. Hence people start demanding the EFL take the club off CCFC and hand it over to somebody else and random things like that.
Our very constitution is based on freedom of speech and the ability of individuals to lobby governing bodies in all walks of life journalists included.. my own conclusion is far from yours in that I welcome the exposure by such a respected journalist to maintain the "plight" of our football club.. I do not consider that as a negative in any regard.

Yep, articles about us are often based on views of the trust....

It isn't maintaining the "plight" though is it? As you seem to think that the EFL are going to take the club and hand it over to somebody else it's not really clearing anything up.

Hence why if he said, this is CCFC's situation, this is what the EFL can actually do to help resolve it then it cuts out all of the confusion and gets people on the same page as to why they are shouting at the EFL.
 

ohitsaidwalker king power

Well-Known Member
Yep, articles about us are often based on views of the trust....

It isn't maintaining the "plight" though is it? As you seem to think that the EFL are going to take the club and hand it over to somebody else it's not really clearing anything up.

Hence why if he said, this is CCFC's situation, this is what the EFL can actually do to help resolve it then it cuts out all of the confusion and gets people on the same page as to why they are shouting at the EFL.

I don't think that Nick no.. I don't envisage that he has that much clout(if only)...my point is that maintaining the profile of our clubs situation (I've removed the word plight given your obvious sensitivities) can only be a good thing.....else we wither and die don't we?
 

Nick

Administrator
I don't think that Nick no.. I don't envisage that he has that much clout(if only)...my point is that maintaining the profile of our clubs situation (I've removed the word plight given your obvious sensitivities) can only be a good thing.....else we wither and die don't we?

Do you think articles like that make a jot of difference? It really isn't as simple as just shouting "Let down by the EFL" because somebody had said EFL a few times. He could go into detail of what could be implemented, what the EFL could say to SISU (in our example) and what could actually be enforced. He could try not to make it less obvious by using an ironic quote from the council leader who is part of our problem as if it means anything.

Yes, Football needs a reform from the ground up but it isn't going to happen because it's all about money. (from the top down)
 

ohitsaidwalker king power

Well-Known Member
Do you think articles like that make a jot of difference? It really isn't as simple as just shouting "Let down by the EFL" because somebody had said EFL a few times. He could go into detail of what could be implemented, what the EFL could say to SISU (in our example) and what could actually be enforced. He could try not to make it less obvious by using an ironic quote from the council leader who is part of our problem as if it means anything.

Yes, Football needs a reform from the ground up but it isn't going to happen because it's all about money. (from the top down)
In isolation will this article make a difference perhaps no?.. but as part of a critical mass.... maybe?
Always do what you've always done... and all that......
 

covcity4life

Well-Known Member
EFL should be like NFL and own all rights to badges etc. That way a club can never truly be lost

In italy clubs like Fiorentina and Parma have reformed with same name and badge and sorted themselves out. no loss of fans
 

Nick

Administrator
EFL should be like NFL and own all rights to badges etc. That way a club can never truly be lost

In italy clubs like Fiorentina and Parma have reformed with same name and badge and sorted themselves out. no loss of fans

I'd love for somebody like the EFL to always have some sort of stake so that owners can't take the piss and for every club to own it's stadium and never be allowed to separate them.

How is it implemented? Is the EFL going to buy a share in every club?

It's all stuff that should have been done from the off.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
I think I'm challenging the test then.. isn't Henry?
All that ever happens is people saying the current system doesn't work as some clubs have shit owners. Nobody is going to argue that there are clubs with shit owners but I think to get any momentum behind making a change an alternative needs to be proposed and that's where it gets difficult.

You can't really make any change prior to ownership, what criteria could you possibly put in place?

So you're then left with taking action against current owners. Unless you go down the route of the EFL taking ownership of clubs being badly run, as the Charlton owner is requesting, how would it work?

Do teams without a new owner in waiting just get thrown out of the league? Fan ownership is a non-starter unless you move all clubs to self sufficiency.
 

ohitsaidwalker king power

Well-Known Member
I'd love for somebody like the EFL to always have some sort of stake so that owners can't take the piss and for every club to own it's stadium and never be allowed to separate them.

How is it implemented? Is the EFL going to buy a share in every club?

It's all stuff that should have been done from the off.
It should have been done from the off I agree..but has not been and so... we (including Henry etal) have to campaign.. challenge.. lobby...protest.... champion....a different way, its the only way to make a change.. else the status quo remains.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
While people will get excited by it and "plight" what does he want the EFL to do about our situation? It's his usual one sided rhetoric with information fed from the Trust which doesn't usually help.

Why would it embarrass the EFL? What can they do? Maybe he could lobby with some examples of what the EFL can do to realistically prevent things?

Agreed Nick. They missed the boat when they allowed the temp move to sixfields. They should've put some stringent terms around the building of the new stadium, returning to local area (securing a longer term future) and the golden share.

Saying that, all this would've lead to is SISU "hammering" them in court as well.

My personal belief is that if a clubs owners cannot deliver on their main responsibility ie providing a ground for their club to fulfil their fixtures, the golden share should be removed and made available to someone who can. I appreciate that unfortunately this would lead to all sorts of shenanigans behind the scenes with landlords of grounds etc, however, my counter would be why should a club go out of business because its owners cant deliver on their main responsibility ?
 

Warwickhunt

Well-Known Member
Why not?... point being... does their fit and proper persons test need recalibration.. isn't our "plight" evidence of that?
Coventry city finances are better than 70% of the other league clubs and are virtually self financing, so the EFL will struggle on the fit and proper persons test
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
EFL should be like NFL and own all rights to badges etc. That way a club can never truly be lost

In italy clubs like Fiorentina and Parma have reformed with same name and badge and sorted themselves out. no loss of fans

I was just going to suggest could anyone imagine the PL reaction if someone came in and said they were going to do an NFL style franchise system to rebuild the league and give the league committee more power.

But it's not a system I want to see. It effectively turns clubs into cash cows for owners because if they fuck up the managerial side they just tank for a year or two and don't really get penalised for it. It's not even guaranteed to work as rich owners have lots of expensive lawyers and so they don't tend to argue with them much anyway.

It also pretty much puts local communities at a massive disadvantage and the owners threaten to move a team unless the local authorities pay for things like new stadia, transport links etc, or let them run roughshod over planning etc. Amazing how so many rich capitalists suddenly think things should be paid for by taxpayers when it benefits them.
 

Irish Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
[
All that ever happens is people saying the current system doesn't work as some clubs have shit owners. Nobody is going to argue that there are clubs with shit owners but I think to get any momentum behind making a change an alternative needs to be proposed and that's where it gets difficult.

You can't really make any change prior to ownership, what criteria could you possibly put in place?

So you're then left with taking action against current owners. Unless you go down the route of the EFL taking ownership of clubs being badly run, as the Charlton owner is requesting, how would it work?

Do teams without a new owner in waiting just get thrown out of the league? Fan ownership is a non-starter unless you move all clubs to self sufficiency.

Seems to work well enough in Germany
The 50+1 rule (German: 50+1-Regel) is an informal term used to refer to a clause in the regulations of the Deutsche Fußball-Liga. The clause states that, in order to obtain a license to compete in the Bundesliga, a club must hold a majority of its own voting rights. The rule is designed to ensure that the club's members retain overall control, protecting clubs from the influence of external investors.
(Wikipedia)
 
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Irish Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
I put this on another thread. This is not an exhaustive list, just quickly off the top of my head. The fact Sisu took the club to Northampton simply to distress ACL (a fact that comes from the judge in JR 1. This is enough to prove they are unfit to own a club in my opinion as it shows a complete disregard to the well being of CCFC). Put all of the this list together and it shows just how unfit they are to own a football club. Not sure what it would take for the usual suspects on here to see them as unfit.

Taken the club into administration as a tactic to retain control.
The owner threatening to liquidate the club if she doesn’t get her own way.
Taking the club 45 miles away from it’s home to try and distress their landlord.
Total lack of communication with fans.
Lying about lots of things, building a new stadium being one.
Alienating people in the city and the county who would normally be supportive of the club.
Losing the right to buy half of the stadium.
Stripping the infrastructure of the club to the bare bones.
Duping fans into joining in with the new stadium committee (for a stadium that was never going to happen)
 

Nick

Administrator
I put this on another thread. This is not an exhaustive list, just quickly off the top of my head. The fact Sisu took the club to Northampton simply to distress ACL (a fact that comes from the judge in JR 1. This is enough to prove they are unfit to own a club in my opinion as it shows a complete disregard to the well being of CCFC). Put all of the this list together and it shows just how unfit they are to own a football club. Not sure what it would take for the usual suspects on here to see them as unfit.

Taken the club into administration as a tactic to retain control.
The owner threatening to liquidate the club if she doesn’t get her own way.
Taking the club 45 miles away from it’s home to try and distress their landlord.
Total lack of communication with fans.
Lying about lots of things, building a new stadium being one.
Alienating people in the city and the county who would normally be supportive of the club.
Losing the right to buy half of the stadium.
Stripping the infrastructure of the club to the bare bones.
Duping fans into joining in with the new stadium committee (for a stadium that was never going to happen)

I replied on the other thread, nice usual suspects reference because others aren't deluded.

Did you reply to the points in there as to on what basis they would fail anything on those? Step back and use reality rather then anger.

What has actually been stripped? ACL tried a forced takeover which backfired, can you see the efl taking back ownership because of hear say from a fans meeting for example?

That's not defending them, it's pointing out the reality.

Your list is a perfect example of why they can't just listen to fans and start kicking clubs out based on that.
 

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