New keeper? (3 Viewers)

ps1948

Well-Known Member
Anyone fancy a new keeper? De Gea, Pickford (x2, plus the circumstances in giving away the penalty that he saved), Dubravka and Heaton might all be available after making dreadful mistakes costing goals this weekend.
I wonder what the Man Utd, Everton, Newcastle and Burnley forums made of them?
 

CanadianCCFC

Well-Known Member
They probably accept them as a once in a blue moon error from fantastic keepers who have got to the position that they're in by not making catastrophic errors almost every week while failing to do some of the basics of their role.
Sounds about right
 

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
Pickford should have been sent off . It will be interesting to see what happens to Burge. His confidence will be low but if he's dropped that won't help him . If our number two is ready then why not give him a go ? Do we persist with an inconsistent keeper ?
 
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Deleted member 5849

Guest
Are you honestly trying to compare De Gea to Burge?
He's not the first!

How old were Kirkland/Westwood/Pickford/Carson/Schmicheal/Hart/DeGea when they were regulars in the Premier League to name a few? Burge is a veteran compared to these examples. If you are good enough you are old enough. Burge isn’t.
 

ajsccfc

Well-Known Member
I'm not a fan of the ironic cheers Lee Burge gets but this is an odd point to make in his defence. Next time Bakayoko scuffs one don't forget that after Pele dummied the keeper that time he put it wide
 
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Deleted member 5849

Guest
I'm not a fan of the ironic cheers Lee Burge gets but this is an odd point to make in his defence. Next time Bakayoko scuffs one don't forget that after Pele dummied the keeper that time he put it wide
It's odd either way though. It'd be equally odd to say that Kelly is not Pogba, and is therefore worthless at the level we're at.
 
Anybody ever wonder why many players who leave us suddenly become better?

Couldn't be due to the shitstorm that hits them from their own supporters? Surely not?

Most of our squad are young men looking to craft a career in the most unforgiving workplace - let's not forget that.
 

ajsccfc

Well-Known Member
It's odd either way though. It'd be equally odd to say that Kelly is not Pogba, and is therefore worthless at the level we're at.
Agree, they're different worlds. Even though he turned out for us I find it a bit of a stretch to use Stockdale as comparison also as he was clearly dropping down a level to help out for a few weeks.
 

Esoterica

Well-Known Member
Anybody ever wonder why many players who leave us suddenly become better?

Couldn't be due to the shitstorm that hits them from their own supporters? Surely not?

Most of our squad are young men looking to craft a career in the most unforgiving workplace - let's not forget that.
Any examples of the players you mean? Can't think of many players who have become better after leaving us, other than players like Wilson, Maddison, Fleck who were young and sold on to better things.
 
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Deleted member 5849

Guest
Any examples of the players you mean? Can't think of many players who have become better after leaving us, other than players like Wilson, Maddison, Fleck who were young and sold on to better things.
Hmmm, not sure Fleck counts as per the other pair, but I'm splitting hairs. Christie's the obvious one who got criticism, but has turned out half decent... but then Blair Adams never had it so good as with us. Swings and roundabouts!
 

oucho

Well-Known Member
Anyone fancy a new keeper? De Gea, Pickford (x2, plus the circumstances in giving away the penalty that he saved), Dubravka and Heaton might all be available after making dreadful mistakes costing goals this weekend.
I wonder what the Man Utd, Everton, Newcastle and Burnley forums made of them?

Morning Lee!!!
 

GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee

Well-Known Member
I find the whole Burge thing quite strange. There are some who actively want to boo him or sarcastically applaud every time he catches something, which is nonsensical and embaressing to be honest. But on the other side there are still people who try and defend that he's a decent keeper. It's very obvious that League One and Two keepers have mistakes in them, if they didn't they would be playing in a higher division. What is also very clear, that is Burge's overall game doesn't make up for the amount of mistakes he makes. He is a very average League One keeper at best, probably a decent enough League two keeper. If we want to progress, we need a new keeper. I'm not sure where the myth that he's actually a 'very good shot-stopper' comes from. He has had some great moments for us, and at very important times (see Checkatrade Trophy final & Notts County), however, the mistakes outweigh the positives.
I also keep seeing 'he's only cost us (insert amount of goals - which are all drastically underestimated by the way)', but that is kind of irrelevant when some of his worst performances haven't cost us a goal more through luck or bailing him out. As an example a couple of seasons back we went to Burton, the game was on Sky I think, and he put in one of the most inept goalkeeping performances I've ever seen, missing countless crosses, but poor finishing and good defending bailed him out and in theory 'he didnt cost us a goal'. The point being, mistakes leading directly to goals shouldn't be what you measure it on, it should be based on his overall performance. Let's get a sense of reality. He's not a very good goalkeeper, but he doesn't need the barage of abuse he gets.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
Anybody ever wonder why many players who leave us suddenly become better?

Couldn't be due to the shitstorm that hits them from their own supporters? Surely not?

Most of our squad are young men looking to craft a career in the most unforgiving workplace - let's not forget that.

No, it's not that.
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
Maybe because lazy players like fleck realised that they had been getting away with murder here and pulled their finger out
 

SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
I find the whole Burge thing quite strange. There are some who actively want to boo him or sarcastically applaud every time he catches something, which is nonsensical and embaressing to be honest. But on the other side there are still people who try and defend that he's a decent keeper. It's very obvious that League One and Two keepers have mistakes in them, if they didn't they would be playing in a higher division. What is also very clear, that is Burge's overall game doesn't make up for the amount of mistakes he makes. He is a very average League One keeper at best, probably a decent enough League two keeper. If we want to progress, we need a new keeper. I'm not sure where the myth that he's actually a 'very good shot-stopper' comes from. He has had some great moments for us, and at very important times (see Checkatrade Trophy final & Notts County), however, the mistakes outweigh the positives.
I also keep seeing 'he's only cost us (insert amount of goals - which are all drastically underestimated by the way)', but that is kind of irrelevant when some of his worst performances haven't cost us a goal more through luck or bailing him out. As an example a couple of seasons back we went to Burton, the game was on Sky I think, and he put in one of the most inept goalkeeping performances I've ever seen, missing countless crosses, but poor finishing and good defending bailed him out and in theory 'he didnt cost us a goal'. The point being, mistakes leading directly to goals shouldn't be what you measure it on, it should be based on his overall performance. Let's get a sense of reality. He's not a very good goalkeeper, but he doesn't need the barage of abuse he gets.

Agree with this. I'll support him as long as he's in a Sky Blue shirt because IMO as a fan its the right thing to do. Does that mean I rate him? Absolutely not, he's not consistent enough for this level and the fact he possesses very little confidence in himself frightens the life out of most.

Those who defend him are essentially saying "the grass isn't greener on the other side" but realistically I'd happily take that chance. Which is a shame as he's come through our academy and was a part of that incredible promotion push last season, but sentimentality won't get us back to the Championship so I think its best for all parties that Burge and CCFC part ways next season.

Regardless of this he still should be getting support rather than jeers as Addai and LOB genuinely do make Burge look like De Gea!
 

Nick

Administrator
I don't boo him at games or jeer but it was obvious from about the 10th minute or so when he hammered the first kick into the stands it wasn't going to be good.

It is baffling no manager recently has drafted in a new keeper.
 

RoboCCFC90

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure a new keeper is necessarily the answer.

While yes Lee Burge was at fault for the second goal on Friday and has looked susceptible to other errors this season (Oxford away, Luton away, just two examples) I do also question the coaching, i.e Oggy.

LB has always been a decent shot stopper, but he can't kick convincingly, he doesn't control his area and is too prone to mistakes based on his own positioning, yet despite this Oggy has not been able to improve him on any of these aspects over the past five years. While LB might of been the reason for the goal on Friday night, the root cause of the problem has been overlooked.
 

ps1948

Well-Known Member
I find the whole Burge thing quite strange. There are some who actively want to boo him or sarcastically applaud every time he catches something, which is nonsensical and embaressing to be honest. But on the other side there are still people who try and defend that he's a decent keeper. It's very obvious that League One and Two keepers have mistakes in them, if they didn't they would be playing in a higher division. What is also very clear, that is Burge's overall game doesn't make up for the amount of mistakes he makes. He is a very average League One keeper at best, probably a decent enough League two keeper. If we want to progress, we need a new keeper. I'm not sure where the myth that he's actually a 'very good shot-stopper' comes from. He has had some great moments for us, and at very important times (see Checkatrade Trophy final & Notts County), however, the mistakes outweigh the positives.
I also keep seeing 'he's only cost us (insert amount of goals - which are all drastically underestimated by the way)', but that is kind of irrelevant when some of his worst performances haven't cost us a goal more through luck or bailing him out. As an example a couple of seasons back we went to Burton, the game was on Sky I think, and he put in one of the most inept goalkeeping performances I've ever seen, missing countless crosses, but poor finishing and good defending bailed him out and in theory 'he didnt cost us a goal'. The point being, mistakes leading directly to goals shouldn't be what you measure it on, it should be based on his overall performance. Let's get a sense of reality. He's not a very good goalkeeper, but he doesn't need the barage of abuse he gets.
Agree totally with what you say. I put the original post on late last night, having watched the errors made by those keepers, and was highlighting that when a keeper makes a mistake, it (usually) results in a goal conceded - although you correctly point out that's not always the case!
I have been a supporter for a long time, and I get annoyed when people criticize one player above another, when both are equally inept. I've also seen some bad keepers (albeit at a higher level) - Raddy Avramovic springs straight to mind - who might have been OK at Division 3 level.

In "defending" Burge I have used the "how many goals has he cost us" argument, and would stand by most of those stats, but agree that stats cover up an awful lot. Last Friday was a very bad example of his poor command of his area, lack of confidence he has/players have when passing pack to him, and sometimes woeful kicking. His first kick, out to Mason on the halfway line was perfect, but turned into something bad by Mason's inability to control it first time, and the kicks upfield to Bakayoko were a waste given that they seemed to ping straight back at us.

I look forward to a new, hopefully better keeper next season, but for the remainder of this one, as long as he is in goal, I won't boo Burge or sarcastically cheer if/when he catches a cross.
 

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure a new keeper is necessarily the answer.

While yes Lee Burge was at fault for the second goal on Friday and has looked susceptible to other errors this season (Oxford away, Luton away, just two examples) I do also question the coaching, i.e Oggy.

LB has always been a decent shot stopper, but he can't kick convincingly, he doesn't control his area and is too prone to mistakes based on his own positioning, yet despite this Oggy has not been able to improve him on any of these aspects over the past five years. While LB might of been the reason for the goal on Friday night, the root cause of the problem has been overlooked.


I cant see how oggy could improve those issues as they were also his weak points.
 

pastythegreat

Well-Known Member
They probably accept them as a once in a blue moon error from fantastic keepers who have got to the position that they're in by not making catastrophic errors almost every week while failing to do some of the basics of their role.
This

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pastythegreat

Well-Known Member
There's one thing sticking up for Burge when he (rightfully) gets stick on here, but to go out of your way to make a thread. And to then compare his NUMEROUS mistakes to de Gea is completely and utterly outrageous. FFS. I'm done.

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Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
Maybe the realism of no contract offer has hit home and I would be shocked if teams are beating down his door with contracts
 

pastythegreat

Well-Known Member
Anybody ever wonder why many players who leave us suddenly become better?

Couldn't be due to the shitstorm that hits them from their own supporters? Surely not?

Most of our squad are young men looking to craft a career in the most unforgiving workplace - let's not forget that.
And are paid handsomely for it.

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pastythegreat

Well-Known Member
Anybody ever wonder why many players who leave us suddenly become better?

Couldn't be due to the shitstorm that hits them from their own supporters? Surely not?

Most of our squad are young men looking to craft a career in the most unforgiving workplace - let's not forget that.
Also, it's not so much players improving when leaving us but playing in better teams, surrounded by better players.

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SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
I don't boo him at games or jeer but it was obvious from about the 10th minute or so when he hammered the first kick into the stands it wasn't going to be good.

It is baffling no manager recently has drafted in a new keeper.

I understood why MR didn't recruit a new keeper as the budget had to be utilised elsewhere. Surprised TM didn't bring one in. But then again he probably couldn't find a 30+ Premier League GK to come to the club on 2 grand a week.
 

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