Woodlands (14 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

I mean re: funding, is there land to build a retail site and a training ground with a stadium? Could It be like the Ricoh and selling of a chunk of land to Tesco? They paid 60 million, that would fund a stadium surely?

The big supermarkets aren’t investing in new stores at the rate they were at the time of when the Ricoh was built. I believe it was at the time and still is the largest amount of money ever paid by Tesco’s for a piece of land. Probably get a better return from housing on any spare space than retail in the current climate. Pretty sure that the Ricoh had EU regeneration money thrown at it also. Another boat that’s sailed. Apparently.

 

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[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Iirc the Tesco deal didnt cover the entire cost of the Ricoh, it certainly contributed a big proportion of it though. I think the main issues around the Woodlands site would be the suitability of a large scale development and whether the roads could take the traffic.

I mean wasn’t the Ricoh over priced? I’m sure a football stadium in the region of 20-25k can be built for under 60 million for example - surely we could attract naming rights at a decentish sum. We’re not talking a 1 billion Tottenham stadium

 

[Liquid Gold]

What pisses me off as desperation kicks in reality disappears and I can’t believe sisu haven’t if they are serious haven’t done oodles of homework and I can’t believe have chosen this site, there’s just about every negative possible,
listed buildings,
Poor infrastructure
Poor public transport
Poor parking,

You cannot seriously compare Masseys and it’s traffic with a new stadium first there was a huge car park at the back of the plant and obvious there were two rush hours day and lorry traffic but that grew over time from before the war, starting when there were few cars. Eastern Green estate didn’t exist intil the 70s, I remember that being fields right through to Allesley.
I’m not anti a new stadium and I don’t care where it is so long as it’s inside Cov. All I want is a proposal that’s for real not just words. There’s been over a year to develop plans, designs, who is building it and timescale. I suspect the EFL will want that too.
In fairness to sisu they didn’t announce this themselves when they do I expect some meat in the bones.

Write your best with Grammarly.

 

[quinn1971]

I had a look last night and I can't find anywhere on the council website that shows cabinet approval. Can you point me in the right direction.

Given the time the council have been claimed to be sat on this proposal from the club, something the council haven't denied, I sincerely hope they aren't stalling until they can get an alternative plan together that prevents the site being used for a stadium.

I had a look last night and I can't find anywhere on the council website that shows cabinet approval. Can you point me in the right direction.

Given the time the council have been claimed to be sat on this proposal from the club, something the council haven't denied, I sincerely hope they aren't stalling until they can get an alternative plan together that prevents the site being used for a stadium.

Sisu are saying they’ve been looking at woodlands for over a year so call it April 2018, consultation for the new school development started October 2018, guessing it was being looked at long before October, either Sisu already knew there was no chance of getting the land but have just mentioned it so it looks like they’re trying to do something or like you say, Sisu approached the council first about woodlands and the school development plan went in after Sisu,s, looks like the council have 2 options for woodlands, doesn’t look good for a new ground though does it, new special education school or new football stadium, interesting though 15 million to develop it as a school what would a football stadium cost, surely out of sisu’s price range ?

 

[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

I mean wasn’t the Ricoh over priced? I’m sure a football stadium in the region of 20-25k can be built for under 60 million for example - surely we could attract naming rights at a decentish sum. We’re not talking a 1 billion Tottenham stadium

I couldnt say if it were overpriced or not. From what i do know i suspect it was an expensive venture given the site. Id therefore agee that in theory an easier site should allow for a cheaper build of a stadium.

 

[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

Sisu are saying they’ve been looking at woodlands for over a year so call it April 2018, consultation for the new school development started October 2018, guessing it was being looked at long before October, either Sisu already knew there was no chance of getting the land but have just mentioned it so it looks like they’re trying to do something or like you say, Sisu approached the council first about woodlands and the school development plan went in after Sisu,s, looks like the council have 2 options for woodlands, doesn’t look good for a new ground though does it, new special education school or new football stadium, interesting though 15 million to develop it as a school what would a football stadium cost, surely out of sisu’s price range ?

JR3 - SISU vs the special school

 

[Magwitch]

The cost of the Ricoh was a reported £113million, suppose at that time didn’t take much notice but compared at the time to other stadiums that were built it was very costly.

 

[oldskyblue58]

Council Minutes 30/10/2018 Agenda item - One Strategic Plan - SEND Proposal for the use of the Woodlands Site

64.
One Strategic Plan - SEND Proposal for the use of the Woodlands Site PDF 109 KB

• View the background to item 64.

Report of the Deputy Chief Executive (People)
Minutes:
The Cabinet considered a report of the Deputy Chief Executive (People) that sought in principal approval to co-locate Woodfield Primary and Secondary Schools to the site previously occupied by Woodlands School, Broad Lane, Coventry.
Under Section 14 of the Education Act 1996, Coventry City Council had a statutory duty to ensure sufficient school places and fair, appropriate access to education for all. It was the Council’s role to plan, commission and organise school places in a way that raised standards, managed supply and demand and created a diverse infrastructure.
Cabinet, at their meeting on 2nd October 2018 (minute 46 referred), approved in principle the draft One Strategic Plan and agreed that this should now be consulted on. The One Strategic Plan set out pupil forecasts for primary and secondary across education planning areas in response to rising or falling pupil cohorts across the city. It outlined the strategy proposed by the Local Authority and the Coventry Secondary Headteacher Partnership to meet the additional places required in secondary provision from 2019 – 2021.
The One Strategic Plan also outlined the strategy to meet the growing demand for places for children with special educational needs and disabilities including provision for children age 5 to 16, with complex social, emotional and behavioural difficulties. This specialist provision was currently delivered by Woodfield Special School from two separate sites. It was acknowledged that the existing school buildings were deemed unsuitable for purpose in the long term and had insufficient capacity to meet the growing demand.
An opportunity had arisen to re-use the site which contained listed buildings, previously occupied by Woodlands School, to co-locate Woodfield School, in its entirety. This would provide a future proofed fit for purpose educational environment, offering a full range of facilities including sport to learners, with the capacity for the provision to grow. The potential utilisation of the ‘Woodlands site’ enabled the physical separation of phases specifically primary and secondary to ensure that pupils from either phase were able to benefit from age appropriate curriculum and resources. The site security and design would ensure that pupils would only be able to access their own internal and external learning environment.
The report set out how the relocation could be facilitated and sought an “in principle” approval to proceed with a detailed feasibility study, consultation and, if appropriate, present final proposals for Council consideration and decision.
RESOLVED that the Cabinet:
1) Approves the principle of refurbishing the existing Woodlands School site to provide a new home for the existing Woodfield Primary and Secondary schools, the potential subsequent relocation of the Woodfield schools to the Woodlands site, and to apply for planning/listed building consent in order to be able to implement the proposals if a subsequent detailed feasibility study is approved by a future Cabinet and Council.
2) Approves the proposal to pursue planning consent for residential use and subsequent disposal, subject to consent being granted, of the current Woodfield Primary (Stoneleigh Road) and Secondary (Hawthorne Lane) sites and to “ring fence” the receipts towards the costs of implementing recommendation 1) above.
3) Undertakes all necessary consultation with families, the wider education community and all statutory bodies on the proposals set out in recommendation 1) above and to bring the outcome of the consultations and feasibility study, along with the financial implications of any final proposal, back to Cabinet and Council for consideration in making any final decision

 

[fernandopartridge]

What pisses me off as desperation kicks in reality disappears and I can’t believe sisu haven’t if they are serious haven’t done oodles of homework and I can’t believe have chosen this site, there’s just about every negative possible,
listed buildings,
Poor infrastructure
Poor public transport
Poor parking,

You cannot seriously compare Masseys and it’s traffic with a new stadium first there was a huge car park at the back of the plant and obvious there were two rush hours day and lorry traffic but that grew over time from before the war, starting when there were few cars. Eastern Green estate didn’t exist intil the 70s, I remember that being fields right through to Allesley.
I’m not anti a new stadium and I don’t care where it is so long as it’s inside Cov. All I want is a proposal that’s for real not just words. There’s been over a year to develop plans, designs, who is building it and timescale. I suspect the EFL will want that too.
In fairness to sisu they didn’t announce this themselves when they do I expect some meat in the bones.

Masseys traffic was 240 days a year or so taking into account shutdowns etc, so it is comparable in the sense that is dwarfs 25 events a year.


Agree though, i'd like to see a genuine proposal

 

[Grendel]

Are you sure about that? Hasn't there been many issues with the junction with the A45 causing traffic hold ups, including week ends?

I think it used to work better before the "improvements".. Maybe that would be part of the infrastructure issues and costs.

Yes I’m sure

 

[chiefdave]

Let's not play stupid and pretend the council couldn't make things very difficult for the club if they wanted to. 6 weeks for an email reply wasn't it?

Of course the council wouldn't do such a thing

Doing a bit of digging online it seems the school closed in July 2016. There was a suggestion to mothball it so it could be reopened as a school at a later date if the demand was there. That doesn't seem to have happened with the education minister describing it as 'very uneconomical'.

Not much seems to have happened since then apart from a few vague statements from the council regarding potential uses. It seems to be designated for sporting and educational use although Maton has in the past mentioned housing.

According to SISU, and it hasn't been disputed by the council, they have been talking to the council since March about a specific site, now revealed to be Woodlands. However we are told the council have been stalling and very slow to respond.

Then in October there's a draft plan from the council to bring the school back into use, something previously described as 'very uneconomical' and even described in the council's own report as requiring 'significant investment', the report also indicates the council don't have the funding to do this.

Must just be another one of those strange coincidences.

 

[chiefdave]

looks like the council have 2 options for woodlands, doesn’t look good for a new ground though does it, new special education school or new football stadium, interesting though 15 million to develop it as a school what would a football stadium cost, surely out of sisu’s price range ?

You could fit both on the site, doesn't have to be one or the other. As has been shown in this thread you can fit a stadium in without touching the existing buildings the council want to bring back in to use.

 

[quinn1971]

Council Minutes 30/10/2018 Agenda item - One Strategic Plan - SEND Proposal for the use of the Woodlands Site

64.
One Strategic Plan - SEND Proposal for the use of the Woodlands Site PDF 109 KB

• View the background to item 64.

Report of the Deputy Chief Executive (People)
Minutes:
The Cabinet considered a report of the Deputy Chief Executive (People) that sought in principal approval to co-locate Woodfield Primary and Secondary Schools to the site previously occupied by Woodlands School, Broad Lane, Coventry.
Under Section 14 of the Education Act 1996, Coventry City Council had a statutory duty to ensure sufficient school places and fair, appropriate access to education for all. It was the Council’s role to plan, commission and organise school places in a way that raised standards, managed supply and demand and created a diverse infrastructure.
Cabinet, at their meeting on 2nd October 2018 (minute 46 referred), approved in principle the draft One Strategic Plan and agreed that this should now be consulted on. The One Strategic Plan set out pupil forecasts for primary and secondary across education planning areas in response to rising or falling pupil cohorts across the city. It outlined the strategy proposed by the Local Authority and the Coventry Secondary Headteacher Partnership to meet the additional places required in secondary provision from 2019 – 2021.
The One Strategic Plan also outlined the strategy to meet the growing demand for places for children with special educational needs and disabilities including provision for children age 5 to 16, with complex social, emotional and behavioural difficulties. This specialist provision was currently delivered by Woodfield Special School from two separate sites. It was acknowledged that the existing school buildings were deemed unsuitable for purpose in the long term and had insufficient capacity to meet the growing demand.
An opportunity had arisen to re-use the site which contained listed buildings, previously occupied by Woodlands School, to co-locate Woodfield School, in its entirety. This would provide a future proofed fit for purpose educational environment, offering a full range of facilities including sport to learners, with the capacity for the provision to grow. The potential utilisation of the ‘Woodlands site’ enabled the physical separation of phases specifically primary and secondary to ensure that pupils from either phase were able to benefit from age appropriate curriculum and resources. The site security and design would ensure that pupils would only be able to access their own internal and external learning environment.
The report set out how the relocation could be facilitated and sought an “in principle” approval to proceed with a detailed feasibility study, consultation and, if appropriate, present final proposals for Council consideration and decision.
RESOLVED that the Cabinet:
1) Approves the principle of refurbishing the existing Woodlands School site to provide a new home for the existing Woodfield Primary and Secondary schools, the potential subsequent relocation of the Woodfield schools to the Woodlands site, and to apply for planning/listed building consent in order to be able to implement the proposals if a subsequent detailed feasibility study is approved by a future Cabinet and Council.
2) Approves the proposal to pursue planning consent for residential use and subsequent disposal, subject to consent being granted, of the current Woodfield Primary (Stoneleigh Road) and Secondary (Hawthorne Lane) sites and to “ring fence” the receipts towards the costs of implementing recommendation 1) above.
3) Undertakes all necessary consultation with families, the wider education community and all statutory bodies on the proposals set out in recommendation 1) above and to bring the outcome of the consultations and feasibility study, along with the financial implications of any final proposal, back to Cabinet and Council for consideration in making any final decision

If, and it’s a very big if, we believe Sisu have been in touch with the council since April 18 then it doesn’t look very good for the council, they’ve got a bit of form for this, talking to the club about buying the Ricoh just to give them more time to do a deal with wasps, this sounds like the same thing ?

 

[Nick]

If, and it’s a very big if, we believe Sisu have been in touch with the council since April 18 then it doesn’t look very good for the council, they’ve got a bit of form for this, talking to the club about buying the Ricoh just to give them more time to do a deal with wasps, this sounds like the same thing ?

The thing is, Duggins slipped up in admitting that talks started a while ago about it.

 

[quinn1971]

JR3 - SISU vs the special school

It’s a tricky one redevelop a school or sell it to a dodgy hedge fund ?

 

[quinn1971]

R

The thing is, Duggins slipped up in admitting that talks started a while ago about it.

exactly, doesn’t look good does it,

 

[CCFC88]

Poor public transport

I would say this is one of the better aspects of this site, 6 trains an hour stopping at tile hill which is a 20-30 min walk away.

 

[quinn1971]

You could fit both on the site, doesn't have to be one or the other. As has been shown in this thread you can fit a stadium in without touching the existing buildings the council want to bring back in to use.

True, it’s definitely big enough for both, it would be hard for the council to justify why they wouldn’t agree to sell some of it for a new ground,

 

[Nick]

Sisu stadium "masterplans" fill just two A4 pages council claims

Guessing this is the council's way of responding to the Open Letter

What doesn't add up though is why were SISU reps in the council a couple of weeks ago meeting with officers (confirmed by Duggins) if something hadn't been done from March 2018? Why were they meeting and working with them?

Then it's more "drop the legals".

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

It’s a tricky one redevelop a school or sell it to a dodgy hedge fund ?

Didn’t bother them selling to a dodgy hedge fund when they sold the Ricoh to wasps...

 

[olderskyblue]

Masseys traffic was 240 days a year or so taking into account shutdowns etc, so it is comparable in the sense that is dwarfs 25 events a year.


Agree though, i'd like to see a genuine proposal

I used to work there many moons ago. The staggered start and finish times helped, but it was always better to avoid broad lane as the queues used to be pretty bad, every day.

 

[ceetee]

It’s a tricky one redevelop a school or sell it to a dodgy hedge fund ?

You do know that ACL was sold to a hedge fund, don't you?
Sorry, Huckerby got in first

 

[ccfcricoh]

Poor infrastructure
Poor public transport
Poor parking,

It's hilarious people just throwing problems at it straight away, we won't bother then, we'll just stop playing football shall we?

Its not like those bus things can go down most roads and their routes changed at all. I remember getting the "matchday" buses to the gasworks well before the Ricoh was there (not!) and wondering what car park C was used for (oh that's right, some tarmac was just stuck down specially!)

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Council making excuses again hahahaha

They won't stop till they finish us for good, it's like they don't want a new stadium as it would fuck up the wasps project

 

[skybluetony176]

Sisu already knew there was no chance of getting the land but have just mentioned it so it looks like they’re trying to do something or

How very cynical of you. What has SISU ever done to earn such cynicism? Oh wait...

 

[skybluetony176]

Sisu stadium "masterplans" fill just two A4 pages council claims

Guessing this is the council's way of responding to the Open Letter

What doesn't add up though is why were SISU reps in the council a couple of weeks ago meeting with officers (confirmed by Duggins) if something hadn't been done from March 2018? Why were they meeting and working with them?

Then it's more "drop the legals".

To be fair it’s at least 2 A4 pages longer than the last stadium master plan so we’ll call it progress.

 

[Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon]

Poor infrastructure
Poor public transport
Poor parking,

It's hilarious people just throwing problems at it straight away, we won't bother then, we'll just stop playing football shall we?

Its not like those bus things can go down most roads and their routes changed at all. I remember getting the "matchday" buses to the gasworks well before the Ricoh was there (not!) and wondering what car park C was used for (oh that's right, some tarmac was just stuck down specially!)

In fairness most people are commenting on issues that would need to be addressed rather than saying it can't/shouldn't happen, to infer from that that we don't want CCFC playing football any more is quite a stretch. As I said earlier, i'm not a town planner but i'd expect work to certainly be required to make the site viable and that may well prove too big an issue in the end. Obviously a positive attitude from the Council is also required and looks very far from assured.

 

[ajsccfc]

Michael Byng's consortium are still in the game, they've just made their proposal

 

[Nick]

Michael Byng's consortium are still in the game, they've just made their proposal

Just waiting to find the aol disk for the internet to submit it

 

[Grendel]

Michael Byng's consortium are still in the game, they've just made their proposal

Problem is he can’t find a fax machine

 

[Liquid Gold]

Michael Byng's consortium are still in the game, they've just made their proposal

I like that it's 4 separate stands with 2 tiers and looks more traditional but the supporting pillars are a big no. Having a giant radiator outside the main stand instead of undersoil heating is brave.

 

[Nick]

I like that it's 4 separate stands with 2 tiers and looks more traditional but the supporting pillars are a big no.

Not sure the fencing would work in 2019 either.

 

[torchomatic]

To be fair it’s at least 2 A4 pages longer than the last stadium master plan so we’ll call it progress.

THis thread more to your liking then?

 

[better days]

You could fit both on the site, doesn't have to be one or the other. As has been shown in this thread you can fit a stadium in without touching the existing buildings the council want to bring back in to use.

Two schools have been built immediately adjacent to the Olympic stadium since West Ham moved in
Match days don't clash with school times
Even midweek games kick off long after schools have closed

 

[ccfcricoh]

In fairness most people are commenting on issues that would need to be addressed rather than saying it can't/shouldn't happen, to infer from that that we don't want CCFC playing football any more is quite a stretch. As I said earlier, i'm not a town planner but i'd expect work to certainly be required to make the site viable and that may well prove too big an issue in the end. Obviously a positive attitude from the Council is also required and looks very far from assured.

They're not problems with this site though, they're "problems" that will need sorting anywhere.

And as it stands unfortunately it is a matter of build a new ground or stop playing football, unless the wasps have a change of heart, or sisu drop legals...

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