Spoilt (8 Viewers)

[Adge]

I'd suggest most people (myself included) don't want to play tenant at the Ricoh to the franchise rugby club, but would accept returning there as an interim measure whilst our own home is built in the city.

Are you really buying that? Can’t believe some people are actually falling for this guff still. Hedge funds do not build football stadiums.

 

---

[Nick]

Are you really buying that? Can’t believe some people are actually falling for this guff still. Hedge funds do not build football stadiums.

Yes, he clearly says he believes it.

Try reading

 

[fatso]

We could always ground share with cov and nw cricket club, they always have a lovely playing surface, although no one would be allowed to run across that bit in the middle!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Are you really buying that? Can’t believe some people are actually falling for this guff still. Hedge funds do not build football stadiums.

I'm not on about the hedge fund. I'm talking generally that is what I would like, I don't think SISU will build a stadium.

Thanks for the lesson on what hedge funds do and don't do, really helpful.

 

[shmmeee]

I'd suggest most people (myself included) don't want to play tenant at the Ricoh to the franchise rugby club, but would accept returning there as an interim measure whilst our own home is built in the city.

We aren’t building our own.

You can either go back to the Ricoh as Wasps tenants, or you can gamble on the EU process going Sisus way and then the council doing exactly what Sisu want and not something else and we get the Ricoh and still can’t afford to run it.

No one is seriously planning for a new stadium. It’s a fun distraction like “which retired player would you play?”, but it’s not a serious plan for our future. It’s unicorn level stuff.

And in my conversations with casual fans, the vast majority don’t give a shit about Wasps but think CCFC should play at the Ricoh.

 

[fernandopartridge]

We aren’t building our own.

You can either go back to the Ricoh as Wasps tenants, or you can gamble on the EU process going Sisus way and then the council doing exactly what Sisu want and not something else and we get the Ricoh and still can’t afford to run it.

No one is seriously planning for a new stadium. It’s a fun distraction like “which retired player would you play?”, but it’s not a serious plan for our future. It’s unicorn level stuff.

I didn't say anybody was.

It isn't a serious plan but really should be, the Ricoh is tainted and there is no way I'd want the club paying any sum to buy into any part of it.

 

[Sbarcher]

Didn't the EFL stipulate a max time we could play away from Coventry?

 

[covcity4life]

wanna be back at ricoh asap but worried could lose form if did

sure some of that could be justified but i still dont think ricoh is bad enough to derail promotion push

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

We aren’t building our own.

You can either go back to the Ricoh as Wasps tenants, or you can gamble on the EU process going Sisus way and then the council doing exactly what Sisu want and not something else and we get the Ricoh and still can’t afford to run it.

No one is seriously planning for a new stadium. It’s a fun distraction like “which retired player would you play?”, but it’s not a serious plan for our future. It’s unicorn level stuff.

And in my conversations with casual fans, the vast majority don’t give a shit about Wasps but think CCFC should play at the Ricoh.

Ultimately we need to return but not at grossly disadvantageous price which would effectively put a ceiling on us

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Wouldn't fancy a slide tackle.

Kastaneer would.

 

[Nick]

Ultimately we need to return but not at grossly disadvantageous price which would effectively put a ceiling on us

The issue is, people seem to be Ricoh at all costs all of the time.

 

[oldskyblue58]

The trouble with comparing to the other groundshares is that those owners are football not rugby orientated. Simply not the case at the Ricoh. Why would wasps set it up in anything other than what suits them best and costs them least? That may match CCFC requirements but i wouldnt bet on it. They certainly are not going to give guarantees as to the pitch being in the best state for CCFC if it doesnt suit wasps or increases their own costs.

Last time they relayed the pitch i seem to remember it cost a fortune sure i heard £1m quoted somewhere. If wasps dont need those improvements why would they spend that money again? If they did they are going to expect a large contribution from CCFC.

As i understand it how the ball rolls is not so important to rugby teams and traditionally the grass is longer. Both of which are handicaps to CCFC. Not handicaps to wasps. If the stadium owners were to do anything it would make more sense to install a synthetic pitch like Saracens have - lower maintenance, more usage etc. - CCFC can not under current ruless come back then

There has been a big thing made of the St Andrews pitch by the directors, manager and players. Views supported by many fans in general. In a sense that burns a lot of bridges back to the Ricoh. CCFC have cut their cloth accordingly and so far it seems to be working well team wise. However wasps have not sat back wringing their hands at the loss of CCFC, they have made their own financial adjustments to match the financial realities. It will be interesting to see the 2020 CCFC accounts which will indicate what the St Andrews exile cost and additional investment by SISU. As it will be to see the same period financials for wasps

Not sure i share as yet the sentiment that SISU are covering any shortfalls. I think that the players sales have greatly softened that blow. Those player sales i suspect are the only reason we had anything like a decent budget this season and are not in embargo right now. At the moment things are looking positive on the pitch, attendances have probably beaten expectation and the finances are covered for now. The problem will be if the season tails off to any degree.

I would suspect that many of those that go to St Andrews this season would do so again next but will we have the players to sell to cover the shortfall next season. Possibly but probably at the expense of weakening the team - it isnt possible to keep pulling the trick out of the bag every season. I wouldn't as it stands rely on SISU putting major funding in.

The rent at st Andrews is apparently £300k, have match day expenses increased too in order to cover the ST Andrews pitch maintenance costs for example? There is a reason for the quality of the pitch - money

The feeling i get is that the club, and fans that go, are happy with what is happening at St Andrews playing/team wise. At the same time wasps are making cost savings, reorganising and apparently planning for the next 5 years (that has to be planning without ccfc doesnt it?) - going their own way. The EC complaint is the last throw at getting the Ricoh and could take until next Feb at least dependant on Brexit, There has been little given as to any plan for CCFC or stadium. CCC are stonewalling anything CCFC related so no idea if there is any movement their from either CCC or SISU. The club owners after a burst of PR activity appear once more silent. The EFL will do nothing. Dig behind the team results and CCFC are in a whole lot of potential problems

Personally i cant help thinking that CCFC are not coming back to the Ricoh and for now a growing number of fans are buying in to that. I just do not see how CCFC come back to the Ricoh any time soon if ever given attitudes and obstacles. The benefits of being elsewhere are being talked up, there are substantial obstacles including the playing surface and an unsympathetic potential landlord at the Ricoh. Not to mention those that dont go to St Andrews slowly losing the habit.

Not sure CCFC are in a position to make demands about the pitch in order to come back. wasps i suspect know/think that

 

[Nick]

The trouble with comparing to the other groundshares is that those owners are football not rugby orientated. Simply not the case at the Ricoh. Why would wasps set it up in anything other than what suits them best and costs them least? That may match CCFC requirements but i wouldnt bet on it. They certainly are not going to give guarantees as to the pitch being in the best state for CCFC if it doesnt suit wasps.

Last time they relayed the pitch i seem to remember it cost a fortune sure i heard £1m quoted somewhere. If wasps dont need those improvements why would they spend that money again? If they did they are going to expect a large contribution from CCFC.

As i understand it how the ball rolls is not so important to rugby teams and traditionally the grass is longer. Both of which are handicaps to CCFC. Not handicaps to wasps. If the stadium owners were to do anything it would make more sense to install a synthetic pitch like Saracens have - lower maintenance, more usage etc. - CCFC can not under current ruless come back then

There has been a big thing made of the St Andrews pitch by the directors, manager and players. Views supported by many fans in general. In a sense that burns a lot of bridges back to the Ricoh. CCFC have cut their cloth accordingly and so far it seems to be working well. However wasps have not sat back wringing their hands at the loss of CCFC, they have made their own financial adjustments to match the financial realities. It will be interesting to see the 2020 CCFC accounts which will indicate what the St Andrews exile cost and additional investment by SISU

Not sure i share as yet the sentiment that SISU are covering any shortfalls. I think that the players sales have greatly softened that blow. Those player sales i suspect are the only reason we had anything like a decent budget this season and are not in embargo right now. At the moment things are looking positive on the pitch, attendances have probably beaten expectation and the finances are covered for now. The problem will be if the season tails off to any degree.

I would suspect that many of those that go to St Andrews this season would do so again next but will we have the players to sell to cover the shortfall next season. Possibly but probably at the expense of weakening the team - it isnt possible to keep pulling the trick out of the bag every season. I wouldn't as it stands rely on SISU putting major funding in.

The rent at st Andrews is apparently £300k, have match day expenses increased too in order to cover the ST Andrews pitch maintenance costs for example? There is a reason for the quality of the pitch - money

The feeling i get is that the club, and fans that go, are happy with what is happening at St Andrews playing/team wise. At the same time wasps are making cost savings, reorganising and apparently planning for the next 5 years (that has to be planning without ccfc doesnt it?) - going their own way. The EC complaint is the last throw at getting the Ricoh and could take until next Feb at least dependant on Brexit, There has been little given as to any plan for CCFC or stadium. CCC are stonewalling anything CCFC related so no idea if there is any movement their from either CCC or SISU. The club owners after a burst of PR activity appear once more silent. The EFL will do nothing. Dig behind the team results and CCFC are in a whole lot of potential problems

Personally i cant help thinking that CCFC are not coming back to the Ricoh and for now a growing number of fans are buying in to that. I just do not see how CCFC come back to the Ricoh any time soon if ever given attitudes and obstacles. The benefits of being elsewhere are being talked up, there are substantial obstacles including the playing surface and an unsympathetic potential landlord at the Ricoh. Not to mention those that dont go to St Andrews slowly losing the habit.

The pitch at St Andrews is better because of maintenance, Wasps got Andy Turner down there to take pictures and do an article because they had hired heat lamps in. Most clubs will be doing this as standard anyway and won't need a big PR push.

Again have a look at the pitches at Ryton and the Higgs, they are both like carpet as well. The ones at Ryton were redone this summer and grew back I think.

You can tell that the Ricoh pitch isn't looked after as it should be (regardless of whether it's Rugby or Football and the PR pieces that are put out about it) .

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Are you really buying that? Can’t believe some people are actually falling for this guff still. Hedge funds do not build football stadiums.

The big draw for SISU wasn't the football stadium itself - with taking on the maintenance costs etc it wouldn't have been much if any more profitable that renting and keeping the gate money. The big draw was all the extras that came with it in the exhibition hall, potential for concerts, hotel etc. with expansion possibilities.

Any new stadium would be just that - a football stadium and the income generating potential would be much more limited. Hence why the new stadium thing was always nothing more than a smokescreen. It was going to be the Ricoh or nothing.

 

[Otis]

Yup, FP. Play in Coventry at the Ricoh until we can build a new stadium (not counting my chickens though).

 

[jordan210]

The pitch at St Andrews is better because of maintenance, Wasps got Andy Turner down there to take pictures and do an article because they had hired heat lamps in. Most clubs will be doing this as standard anyway and won't need a big PR push.

Again have a look at the pitches at Ryton and the Higgs, they are both like carpet as well. The ones at Ryton were redone this summer and grew back I think.

You can tell that the Ricoh pitch isn't looked after as it should be (regardless of whether it's Rugby or Football and the PR pieces that are put out about it) .

I believe every year Ryton is stripped down and seeded. Club actually has a twitter for ground staff

CCFC Grounds (@CCFCGrounds) | Twitter

Heatlamps are pretty standard at most grounds. Quite a few clubs have even been given confiscated lamps from the police.

 

[cooperskyblue]

I think a hell of a lot of fans would go St Andrews who aren't already if we saw cranes and diggers at a Coventry site starting the building of a new Stadium, sadly deep down, I don't think that is going to happen.

I want to be at the Ricoh, but where we are the only team, or that it feels our home, like it did when we first moved into the Ricoh in 2005. The pitch was always so good, and despite the debate about if it's better or not than Highfield Road, I for one loved going and proud that we had great new stadium to play in.

Fast forward to returning from Northampton, and the season's since. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have that same love and affection for the Ricoh as I did before we left. The reason, wasps. Wasps logos bigger than ours, no ccfc club shop at the stadium, all these things have made it feel that we don't really belong there, it's sad as if Wasps were to be playing there, we should be the tenants.

Wasps are the problem, and I don't mean they are solely at fault, but them being there is a 3rd party and makes it almost impossible for us to have the Ricoh.

Seppala talked about wasps wanting to be involved in buying CCFC, could SISU buy Wasps?

It is hard to see how the Ricoh can be made to feel like it once did while Wasps are there. Maybe a co-ownership, I don't know.

 

[Adge]

I'm not on about the hedge fund. I'm talking generally that is what I would like, I don't think SISU will build a stadium.

Thanks for the lesson on what hedge funds do and don't do, really helpful.

Thanks. Lesson 2 is what councils do and what/who they represent. Lesson 3 is about franchises and sports teams/clubs.
Don’t be late or Sir will give you a detention!

 

[covcity4life]

my only hope i cling to is that we get promoted this year and that opens up

new ambitious owners
sisu become more mbitious themselves and back robins to try get them to promise land of prem
new deal at ricoh is secured on good terms for ccfc and attendences rise back to 18k as we go back to being a 16th place team

any of those would do

 

[Grendel]

The trouble with comparing to the other groundshares is that those owners are football not rugby orientated. Simply not the case at the Ricoh. Why would wasps set it up in anything other than what suits them best and costs them least? That may match CCFC requirements but i wouldnt bet on it. They certainly are not going to give guarantees as to the pitch being in the best state for CCFC if it doesnt suit wasps or increases their own costs.

Last time they relayed the pitch i seem to remember it cost a fortune sure i heard £1m quoted somewhere. If wasps dont need those improvements why would they spend that money again? If they did they are going to expect a large contribution from CCFC.

As i understand it how the ball rolls is not so important to rugby teams and traditionally the grass is longer. Both of which are handicaps to CCFC. Not handicaps to wasps. If the stadium owners were to do anything it would make more sense to install a synthetic pitch like Saracens have - lower maintenance, more usage etc. - CCFC can not under current ruless come back then

There has been a big thing made of the St Andrews pitch by the directors, manager and players. Views supported by many fans in general. In a sense that burns a lot of bridges back to the Ricoh. CCFC have cut their cloth accordingly and so far it seems to be working well team wise. However wasps have not sat back wringing their hands at the loss of CCFC, they have made their own financial adjustments to match the financial realities. It will be interesting to see the 2020 CCFC accounts which will indicate what the St Andrews exile cost and additional investment by SISU. As it will be to see the same period financials for wasps

Not sure i share as yet the sentiment that SISU are covering any shortfalls. I think that the players sales have greatly softened that blow. Those player sales i suspect are the only reason we had anything like a decent budget this season and are not in embargo right now. At the moment things are looking positive on the pitch, attendances have probably beaten expectation and the finances are covered for now. The problem will be if the season tails off to any degree.

I would suspect that many of those that go to St Andrews this season would do so again next but will we have the players to sell to cover the shortfall next season. Possibly but probably at the expense of weakening the team - it isnt possible to keep pulling the trick out of the bag every season. I wouldn't as it stands rely on SISU putting major funding in.

The rent at st Andrews is apparently £300k, have match day expenses increased too in order to cover the ST Andrews pitch maintenance costs for example? There is a reason for the quality of the pitch - money

The feeling i get is that the club, and fans that go, are happy with what is happening at St Andrews playing/team wise. At the same time wasps are making cost savings, reorganising and apparently planning for the next 5 years (that has to be planning without ccfc doesnt it?) - going their own way. The EC complaint is the last throw at getting the Ricoh and could take until next Feb at least dependant on Brexit, There has been little given as to any plan for CCFC or stadium. CCC are stonewalling anything CCFC related so no idea if there is any movement their from either CCC or SISU. The club owners after a burst of PR activity appear once more silent. The EFL will do nothing. Dig behind the team results and CCFC are in a whole lot of potential problems

Personally i cant help thinking that CCFC are not coming back to the Ricoh and for now a growing number of fans are buying in to that. I just do not see how CCFC come back to the Ricoh any time soon if ever given attitudes and obstacles. The benefits of being elsewhere are being talked up, there are substantial obstacles including the playing surface and an unsympathetic potential landlord at the Ricoh. Not to mention those that dont go to St Andrews slowly losing the habit.

Not sure CCFC are in a position to make demands about the pitch in order to come back. wasps i suspect know/think that

The losing habit bit I don’t think is much of an issue

I think if a ground was built it would attract big crowds

The issue is how’s it realistically going to get built. Even if there was a positive transparent plan of action it would take a long time and there is not even that

I don’t know if people are that happy going to St Andrews. I’m not and it’s not that inconvenient as I live by the A45 not far from the NEC - to be honest if I was still working the hours I did I wouldn’t bother and I think there will be a tail off - we have to keep winning to keep the crowd we have and the weather is kind at the moment.

I’d assume the loans are higher than what was being put in before to cover costs if nothing else. The Baylis cash will have funded the club for a short term but it’s not sustainable

I am moving more to the opinion like you that we will not be going back due to the way the Pr is going but this isn’t to my mind a sustainable position

I don’t think promotion is remotely achievable and even if it is we would have a very inadequate squad and would lose a lot of matches in the championship so financially it’s of no benefit

Clocks counting down on us I think

 

[Grendel]

The big draw for SISU wasn't the football stadium itself - with taking on the maintenance costs etc it wouldn't have been much if any more profitable that renting and keeping the gate money. The big draw was all the extras that came with it in the exhibition hall, potential for concerts, hotel etc. with expansion possibilities.

Any new stadium would be just that - a football stadium and the income generating potential would be much more limited. Hence why the new stadium thing was always nothing more than a smokescreen. It was going to be the Ricoh or nothing.

They were never interested in buying the stadium - that’s why they were chosen

 

[Adge]

I think a hell of a lot of fans would go St Andrews who aren't already if we saw cranes and diggers at a Coventry site starting the building of a new Stadium, sadly deep down, I don't think that is going to happen.

I want to be at the Ricoh, but where we are the only team, or that it feels our home, like it did when we first moved into the Ricoh in 2005. The pitch was always so good, and despite the debate about if it's better or not than Highfield Road, I for one loved going and proud that we had great new stadium to play in.

Fast forward to returning from Northampton, and the season's since. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't have that same love and affection for the Ricoh as I did before we left. The reason, wasps. Wasps logos bigger than ours, no ccfc club shop at the stadium, all these things have made it feel that we don't really belong there, it's sad as if Wasps were to be playing there, we should be the tenants.

Wasps are the problem, and I don't mean they are solely at fault, but them being there is a 3rd party and makes it almost impossible for us to have the Ricoh.

Seppala talked about wasps wanting to be involved in buying CCFC, could SISU buy Wasps?

It is hard to see how the Ricoh can be made to feel like it once did while Wasps are there. Maybe a co-ownership, I don't know.

Yep, if there was a blueprint/planning accepted etc and shovels in the ground I would be on the phone now getting a season ticket.

 

[mark_ccfc]

Forgive me if I am repeating but I seem to remember the pitch being in a poor state before Wasps took over? I thought the current pitch was hybrid synthetic/natural which was supposed to suit a mixture of football and rugby?

 

[Nick]

Forgive me if I am repeating but I seem to remember the pitch being in a poor state before Wasps took over? I thought the current pitch was hybrid synthetic/natural which was supposed to suit a mixture of football and rugby?

It is if maintained properly according to the people who laid it.

 

[Tommo1993]

Yep, if there was a blueprint/planning accepted etc and shovels in the ground I would be on the phone now getting a season ticket.

Me too

 

[Adge]

The losing habit bit I don’t think is much of an issue

I think if a ground was built it would attract big crowds

The issue is how’s it realistically going to get built. Even if there was a positive transparent plan of action it would take a long time and there is not even that

I don’t know if people are that happy going to St Andrews. I’m not and it’s not that inconvenient as I live by the A45 not far from the NEC - to be honest if I was still working the hours I did I wouldn’t bother and I think there will be a tail off - we have to keep winning to keep the crowd we have and the weather is kind at the moment.

I’d assume the loans are higher than what was being put in before to cover costs if nothing else. The Baylis cash will have funded the club for a short term but it’s not sustainable

I am moving more to the opinion like you that we will not be going back due to the way the Pr is going but this isn’t to my mind a sustainable position

I don’t think promotion is remotely achievable and even if it is we would have a very inadequate squad and would lose a lot of matches in the championship so financially it’s of no benefit

Clocks counting down on us I think

Yep, fair post. Unfortunately while Sisu are in charge there is always going to be a glass ceiling to what we can/will achieve and that is probably going to be at the level we are at or lower as we have seen recently.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Forgive me if I am repeating but I seem to remember the pitch being in a poor state before Wasps took over? I thought the current pitch was hybrid synthetic/natural which was supposed to suit a mixture of football and rugby?

Even when it was just us playing there post winter it wasn't a great surface, but better than since the rugby was also played on it.

It's definitely not had the upkeep it used to (although it used to frustrate me that even on freezing winter days the sprinklers would be on before the game, at HT and after a game even on days when it'd been raining). I can't see Wasps be willing to buy or rent rollers to keep the pitch flatter for us if they don't need them themselves. If it were me I either include the cost in the rent because they did have a duty to provide a surface fit for purpose and at times I'm not sure it was, certainly for the way we play anyway. But from a contract point of view that pitch would've met that criteria.

 

[covcity4life]

We aren’t building our own.

You can either go back to the Ricoh as Wasps tenants, or you can gamble on the EU process going Sisus way and then the council doing exactly what Sisu want and not something else and we get the Ricoh and still can’t afford to run it.

.

you?

dont you mean we?

 

[covcity4life]

i dont buy that promotion would be bad for us. besides the glory for fans it opens up new scenarios

 

[Skybluefaz]

No but if you speak with the players management see what they say

That who has told you then?

 

[shmmeee]

Ultimately we need to return but not at grossly disadvantageous price which would effectively put a ceiling on us

To be honest I’m not sure such a price exists that allows us to run the Ricoh without Wasps there. I suspect (no evidence obvs) that a ground share between the two clubs is the only thing that’ll make the Ricoh viable.

Of course that would mean a relationship with Wasps and neither Sisu nor many fans seem to want that. I worry about the plan should the EU action fail. Maybe we will seriously look at building somewhere, but that could be a decade or more away.

 

[shmmeee]

you?

dont you mean we?

You as in the person making the decision. Stop reaching so hard, you’ll pull something.

 

[shmmeee]

my only hope i cling to is that we get promoted this year and that opens up

new ambitious owners
sisu become more mbitious themselves and back robins to try get them to promise land of prem
new deal at ricoh is secured on good terms for ccfc and attendences rise back to 18k as we go back to being a 16th place team

any of those would do

Promotion would be gamechanging. Especially if we can pull in 15k+ crowds regularly. Then we might be able to afford the Ricoh on our own. It’s clearly an upper-Championship/Premiership ground.

 

[torchomatic]

I'd suggest most people (myself included) don't want to play tenant at the Ricoh to the franchise rugby club, but would accept returning there as an interim measure whilst our own home is built in the city.

Yep, sums it up perfectly to me. Wouldn't care if I never stepped inside the Ricoh again. Would happily stay at St A whilst a new ground was being built.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

To be honest I’m not sure such a price exists that allows us to run the Ricoh without Wasps there. I suspect (no evidence obvs) that a ground share between the two clubs is the only thing that’ll make the Ricoh viable.

Of course that would mean a relationship with Wasps and neither Sisu nor many fans seem to want that. I worry about the plan should the EU action fail. Maybe we will seriously look at building somewhere, but that could be a decade or more away.

To be honest the best thing was to let ACL default and go bust. Start again. Although the council weren’t going to have that.

Clearly people are making money from that venture

I’m not against a relationship with Wasps per se - They only want us there as a junior partner at most. Not a 50/50 venture

I’m more than happy to split non sport revenue and keep all football revenue - they can keep rugby revenue