General Election 2019 thread (8 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You mean he is a monarchist? And you aren't.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

No I mean he wouldn’t criticise the monarchy under any circumstances. Even though it was institutional power and influence that got Andrew his ticket to Epstein’s entourage and Charles front row access to government ministers.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Possibly the most important stat from last night’s debate Corbyn wins clear debate victory against Boris Johnson among undecided voters, poll shows

So better in every regard except ‘looking prime ministerial’. In other words: posh accent, long words, expensive suit.

 

[Astute]

Again, this ultimately boils down to what one defines as clear or unclear.

As mentioned, there isn't anything wrong with wanting to know what one is voting for. But Labour's policy should not be concerned unclear just because it is not stating that it either for or against at this stage. Rather, it will put that question to the people. That's what one would be voting for by choosing Labour.

Being a middle way between two extremes doesn't amount to an unclear position.

And this is the problem with this thread.

I point out that Boris kept on saying that Brexit must be done if he didn't like a question. Questions were asked and not answered. Not one comment was made about this on here. Corbyn was asked questions. He wasn't as good in this aspect as Boris. He just tried answering as though the questions were different. And two of the questions at least could be seen as important. But I point something out about Corbyn so out come the cavalry to defend him.

So now he shouldn't say if he will be on the side of Brexit or remain? It is massive to me. My wife and younger children live in France. They have been there for nearly 5 months now. It is a well known fact that Corbyn has always wanted out of the EU. I will not vote for someone who wants out of the EU. Yes there are other important things. But I will not vote for someone who will or even might be on the side of leave. This is my personal choice.

The 12th is the day I go to be with my family. I finish my last night shift then get in my car and leave for France at 5am. I have a drive of over 800 miles. If he wants my vote he needs to give me a reason to leave late or sort out another way of voting. He had my vote until that fiasco on TV. I have always voted Labour. And as you may have guessed I do feel strongly on the subject.

 

[Astute]

So better in every regard except ‘looking prime ministerial’. In other words: posh accent, long words, expensive suit.

Since when has 'brexit' been a long word? It is the only word I remember him saying.

 

[SBAndy]

And this is the problem with this thread.

I point out that Boris kept on saying that Brexit must be done if he didn't like a question. Questions were asked and not answered. Not one comment was made about this on here. Corbyn was asked questions. He wasn't as good in this aspect as Boris. He just tried answering as though the questions were different. And two of the questions at least could be seen as important. But I point something out about Corbyn so out come the cavalry to defend him.

So now he shouldn't say if he will be on the side of Brexit or remain? It is massive to me. My wife and younger children live in France. They have been there for nearly 5 months now. It is a well known fact that Corbyn has always wanted out of the EU. I will not vote for someone who wants out of the EU. Yes there are other important things. But I will not vote for someone who will or even might be on the side of leave. This is my personal choice.

The 12th is the day I go to be with my family. I finish my last night shift then get in my car and leave for France at 5am. I have a drive of over 800 miles. If he wants my vote he needs to give me a reason to leave late or sort out another way of voting. He had my vote until that fiasco on TV. I have always voted Labour. And as you may have guessed I do feel strongly on the subject.

But the quandary, as has been explained previously numerous times, is that the bulk of Labour membership are Remain but their core voter base (the northern towns and districts) voted leave. Coming out one way or the other severely alienates a huge bulk of voters. I actually feel that what they’re suggesting is pragmatic and reasonable. I get that you don’t and you want certainty, but I ask does it really matter which way Corbyn campaigns? The previous incumbent campaigned for Remain and lost. Will people be influenced solely by which side he falls on?

 

[Ian1779]

And this is the problem with this thread.

I point out that Boris kept on saying that Brexit must be done if he didn't like a question. Questions were asked and not answered. Not one comment was made about this on here. Corbyn was asked questions. He wasn't as good in this aspect as Boris. He just tried answering as though the questions were different. And two of the questions at least could be seen as important. But I point something out about Corbyn so out come the cavalry to defend him.

So now he shouldn't say if he will be on the side of Brexit or remain? It is massive to me. My wife and younger children live in France. They have been there for nearly 5 months now. It is a well known fact that Corbyn has always wanted out of the EU. I will not vote for someone who wants out of the EU. Yes there are other important things. But I will not vote for someone who will or even might be on the side of leave. This is my personal choice.

The 12th is the day I go to be with my family. I finish my last night shift then get in my car and leave for France at 5am. I have a drive of over 800 miles. If he wants my vote he needs to give me a reason to leave late or sort out another way of voting. He had my vote until that fiasco on TV. I have always voted Labour. And as you may have guessed I do feel strongly on the subject.

I’m just glad after 3 years I finally know your position. I hope it works out the way you want it to.

 

[skybluetony176]

But the quandary, as has been explained previously numerous times, is that the bulk of Labour membership are Remain but their core voter base (the northern towns and districts) voted leave. Coming out one way or the other severely alienates a huge bulk of voters. I actually feel that what they’re suggesting is pragmatic and reasonable. I get that you don’t and you want certainty, but I ask does it really matter which way Corbyn campaigns? The previous incumbent campaigned for Remain and lost. Will people be influenced solely by which side he falls on?

You can’t even argue that it matters to what deal he negotiates and then puts before the people because labour has always been clear that their position is a customs union.

 

[skybluetony176]

Why can’t the Tory Party just admit that Boris got it wrong to Diane Abbott proportions rather than piss around making out what Boris said was right. They’re just lighting a fire under the Boris is a liar stack of used tyres. Chancellor skewered over Boris Johnson's wrong claim he'll give workers £500

For those that can’t be arsed to read the benefit to working people with NI contributions will be £85 next year not £500 as Boris claimed. There is a scenario that it could rise to £500 over time but no timetable so might never happen, although I’m sure Boris would rather be dead in a ditch.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Why can’t the Tory Party just admit that Boris got it wrong to Diane Abbott proportions rather than piss around making out what Boris said was right. They’re just lighting a fire under the Boris is a liar stack of used tyres. Chancellor skewered over Boris Johnson's wrong claim he'll give workers £500

For those that can’t be arsed to read the benefit to working people with NI contributions will be £85 next year not £500 as Boris claimed. There is a scenario that it could rise to £500 over time but no timetable so might never happen, although I’m sure Boris would rather be dead in a ditch.

Instead of pointing and calling out the Tories 24/7 why not question some of Labour's policies coming off the magical money tree, won't be fun in a few years when instead of the 'rich' it will be all of us paying much higher tax

 

[skybluetony176]

Instead of pointing and calling out the Tories 24/7 why not question some of Labour's policies coming off the magical money tree, won't be fun in a few years when instead of the 'rich' it will be all of us paying much higher tax

You do realise that the Tories are apparently cutting taxes while increasing spending significantly. If I was you I would wait until all the manifestos are all printed and been scrutinised before declaring that one party needs a magic money tree when early indications are that the Tories will need their own. Ironically also that in the last election the Tories trotted out this line, then promptly found a £10 billion bribe for the DUP.

 

[Astute]

But the quandary, as has been explained previously numerous times, is that the bulk of Labour membership are Remain but their core voter base (the northern towns and districts) voted leave. Coming out one way or the other severely alienates a huge bulk of voters. I actually feel that what they’re suggesting is pragmatic and reasonable. I get that you don’t and you want certainty, but I ask does it really matter which way Corbyn campaigns? The previous incumbent campaigned for Remain and lost. Will people be influenced solely by which side he falls on?

Strangely enough most of those who agree with you spent ages telling me that the majority of Labour voters wanted to remain. They constantly told me that I was wrong to say that the majority of Labour voters wanted to leave.

But now it has gone full circle. Labour shouldn't say if they are leave or remain because they might lose votes. Does anyone think they are not losing votes by bot saying which way they would campaign?

The leave vote has gone to the Tories as they are the party offering leave. The remain votes have gone to the Lib Dems. They have gone from also rans after getting into bed with the Tories to being in third place and not far behind Labour. If Labour had come out with being remain they would have kept and gained many of these votes. The splinters up Corbyns arse should have told him this by now.

Many people will always vote Tory. Many people will always vote Labour. It is the floating voters they are after. They have floated off to the Tories and Lib Dems so far. If Labour had gone full out remain they would have got most of the Lib Dems votes. Then it would be very close at least. But some refuse to see the point.

 

[olderskyblue]

Even that’s not strictly true. He was actually attending a meeting of the Wolfe Tone Society in London, a republican organisation where they do indeed pay tribute to dead republicans and apparently these 8 men were mentioned as was an innocent catholic man killed by the SAS. It wasn’t a meeting to specifically pay tribute to any of those men innocent or not, it just happens to be part of the process that the organisation goes through at meetings. Corbyn was specifically there to engage in finding a peaceful solution not to pay tribute to anyone.

He had attended before, so knew that was a regular part of the meetings.

“It can be disclosed that for seven years running, while the IRA “armed struggle” was at its height, Mr Corbyn attended and spoke at official republican commemorations to honour dead IRA terrorists, IRA “prisoners of war” and the active “soldiers of the IRA.”

his response to criticism of that?

“He told the meeting of the Wolfe Tone Society: ‘I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland’.”

so, that excludes British soldiers and innocent civilians murdered by the IRA then....

If you were a sensible politician, would you have attended such meetings if you didn’t have sympathies to their cause?

 

[shmmeee]

Instead of pointing and calling out the Tories 24/7 why not question some of Labour's policies coming off the magical money tree, won't be fun in a few years when instead of the 'rich' it will be all of us paying much higher tax

Yes. Rather than actual policies announced by a party. Let’s all base our judgement on scenarios we have imagined.

You’re no better than the mental left wing kids that bang on about how the Tories are fascists and want to put Muslims in concentration camps.

 

[shmmeee]

Strangely enough most of those who agree with you spent ages telling me that the majority of Labour voters wanted to remain. They constantly told me that I was wrong to say that the majority of Labour voters wanted to leave.

But now it has gone full circle. Labour shouldn't say if they are leave or remain because they might lose votes. Does anyone think they are not losing votes by bot saying which way they would campaign?

The leave vote has gone to the Tories as they are the party offering leave. The remain votes have gone to the Lib Dems. They have gone from also rans after getting into bed with the Tories to being in third place and not far behind Labour. If Labour had come out with being remain they would have kept and gained many of these votes. The splinters up Corbyns arse should have told him this by now.

Many people will always vote Tory. Many people will always vote Labour. It is the floating voters they are after. They have floated off to the Tories and Lib Dems so far. If Labour had gone full out remain they would have got most of the Lib Dems votes. Then it would be very close at least. But some refuse to see the point.

was about two thirds remain and a third leave IIRC (split among Labour voters)

 

[shmmeee]

He had attended before, so knew that was a regular part of the meetings.

“It can be disclosed that for seven years running, while the IRA “armed struggle” was at its height, Mr Corbyn attended and spoke at official republican commemorations to honour dead IRA terrorists, IRA “prisoners of war” and the active “soldiers of the IRA.”

his response to criticism of that?

“He told the meeting of the Wolfe Tone Society: ‘I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland’.”

so, that excludes British soldiers and innocent civilians murdered by the IRA then....

If you were a sensible politician, would you have attended such meetings if you didn’t have sympathies to their cause?

Meanwhile in reality we have a government that plans to put a border between us and NI, doing more for the IRA than anyone in history.

Yes left wing people supported Irish independence. This is not news.

Also LOL at “commemorating these people means you hate all the other people”. Do better.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Yes. Rather than actual policies announced by a party. Let’s all base our judgement on scenarios we have imagined.

You’re no better than the mental left wing kids that bang on about how the Tories are fascists and want to put Muslims in concentration camps.

Have you seen how much it will cost for labour to implement all of these crazy policies.... head out the clouds shmmeee

 

[shmmeee]

Have you seen how much it will cost for labour to implement all of these crazy policies.... head out the clouds shmmeee

Fully. Costed. Manifesto.

It’s not the poor people that have the money Dom. Head out of the rich peoples arses.

As of next month I’m a higher rate tax payer. I approve of Labours tax plans.

BTW the most regressive tax is VAT and the Tories hiked that. Most of their tax cuts are aimed at the rich. They’ve paid for them through borrowing. Your nightmare has already happened.

 

[Grendel]

Fully. Costed. Manifesto.

It’s not the poor people that have the money Dom. Head out of the rich peoples arses.

As of next month I’m a higher rate tax payer. I approve of Labours tax plans.

Costed no doubt by tax research and the king of Corbynomics

 

[clint van damme]

Instead of pointing and calling out the Tories 24/7 why not question some of Labour's policies coming off the magical money tree, won't be fun in a few years when instead of the 'rich' it will be all of us paying much higher tax

The Tories are splashing the cash and giving tax/NI cuts without any indication of where the money will come from unless you count Matt Hancocks 'the money will come in the future explanation.

Labour have at least made an attempt to cost their policies.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

It’s not the poor people that have the money Dom. Head out of the rich peoples arses.
.

Yes and the richest should have to pay more i didn't say they shouldn't

 

[Grendel]

The Tories are splashing the cash and giving tax/NI cuts without any indication of where the money will come from unless you count Matt Hancocks 'the money will come in the future explanation.

Labour have at least made an attempt to cost their policies.

Costing attempts are based off projections - I predict they will assume a significant revenue from corporation tax despite evidence tax increases rarely trickle down to the revenue.

the coatings I’d share impact schemes will not be factored in GDP

I don’t believe that they will scrap the IHT and do their dumb scheme but the revenue have said it will cost more than any potential benefit

 

[Sick Boy]

He had attended before, so knew that was a regular part of the meetings.

“It can be disclosed that for seven years running, while the IRA “armed struggle” was at its height, Mr Corbyn attended and spoke at official republican commemorations to honour dead IRA terrorists, IRA “prisoners of war” and the active “soldiers of the IRA.”

his response to criticism of that?

“He told the meeting of the Wolfe Tone Society: ‘I’m happy to commemorate all those who died fighting for an independent Ireland’.”

so, that excludes British soldiers and innocent civilians murdered by the IRA then....

If you were a sensible politician, would you have attended such meetings if you didn’t have sympathies to their cause?

I suppsose you think that Ireland is some sort of rogue state as it as the garden of rememberance in Dublin. And France also as it has streets named after Sands?

 

[clint van damme]

Costing attempts are based off projections - I predict they will assume a significant revenue from corporation tax despite evidence tax increases rarely trickle down to the revenue.

the coatings I’d share impact schemes will not be factored in GDP

I don’t believe that they will scrap the IHT and do their dumb scheme but the revenue have said it will cost more than any potential benefit

given the unprecedented nature of Brexit I would say that any projections are a finger in the air job. I appreciate they have to go on something. I'd like to see their working out which I'm sure we will.
Don't think the tories will make the same mistake May did last time.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I am a Labour voter. I always vote Labour. But I want my X to go to remain.

So why shouldn't I know what I am voting for?

But you do. IF you vote Labour then you're voting for renegotiating a deal and a second referendum which they'll campaign against that deal (however odd that may seem) in favour of remain. This had been repeated many many times.

If that seems like a bit of a fudge (which it arguably is because they stand to lose on both sides of the divide if they pick a corner) and isn't a good enough position for you and Brexit is going to sway your overall vote above all other policies then you'll have to vote for someone else. If you really want to remain then it's LD. Green's will go for remain but include a second referendum. Those would have to be your choices.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

But you do. IF you vote Labour then you're voting for renegotiating a deal and a second referendum which they'll campaign against that deal (however odd that may seem) in favour of remain. This had been repeated many many times.

.

Doing stuff like that will hopefully put people off voting labour, what a deluded thing to do!

 

[Grendel]

But you do. IF you vote Labour then you're voting for renegotiating a deal and a second referendum which they'll campaign against that deal (however odd that may seem) in favour of remain. This had been repeated many many times.

I don’t believe Corbyn has stated that and the position is just laughable

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I always said when the Queen finally goes then this would be time to ask ourselves if we still need a hereditary Head of State.

Have always been a fan of turning ourselves into a Republic.

Certainly will be the question when she does pass away.

However, a republic isn't something I necessarily advocate. A President has way more actual control than a modern Monarchy with the added legitimacy of election to push for more powers. How many presidents do we see taking gradual control of media outlets and information, political opponents being arrested etc. It's a dangerous slope that can lead to a far more dangerous Head of State than the monarchy we now have.

I was also wondering yesterday with the Prince Andrew stuff and the potential stress on the Queen - what would happen if the Queen were to die during the election period? Would parliament/govt be recalled and the election suspended? Would Charles be able to permit a govt to be performed as King in waiting or would he have to actually have a coronation first?

 

[Grendel]

given the unprecedented nature of Brexit I would say that any projections are a finger in the air job. I appreciate they have to go on something. I'd like to see their working out which I'm sure we will.
Don't think the tories will make the same mistake May did last time.

May got 42% of the vote. She didn’t really do anything wrong

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

My daughter is very left wing and would be a natural voter. She said yesterday she will not vote for him. She said she’d never vote for Johnson in a million years but said he’s a leader and Corbyn is a follower

Is it that your daughter is very left wing, or just very left wing in your eyes?

I have friends on the left that see me as slightly to the right because I make the concession that economic considerations have to be taken into account alongside the ideology of what I think would be the best course of action. Do too much too soon and you can cause a lot of short term damage.

On the other hand I've got friends on the right who see me as a raging leftie because I don't think business, jobs, money etc are the most vital (or in some cases only) aspect of political decision making.

I also find it odd that she considers Corbyn a follower when most of his parliamentary life he's rebelled against party orders. Alexander on the other hand will vote on party lines unless he sees a personal opportunity in it for him. Doesn't matter if he actually believes it - just that it will give him a better chance to further his own ambitions - that is not a leader, it's a narcissist.

I think she may have mistaken charisma for leadership.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Fully. Costed. Manifesto.

It’s not the poor people that have the money Dom. Head out of the rich peoples arses.

As of next month I’m a higher rate tax payer. I approve of Labours tax plans.

BTW the most regressive tax is VAT and the Tories hiked that. Most of their tax cuts are aimed at the rich. They’ve paid for them through borrowing. Your nightmare has already happened.

Fully costed manifesto...like those previous that didn't add-up when it came down to it?

Tax on oil companies simply equates to a variable tax on everyone who buys anything (according to how much oil what they buy needs to get to market)

So those bhuoyed by the suggested avg 2.8% pay increase, and those receiving minimum wage will be no better off whatsoever. They will end up worse off!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I quoted the you gov poll. Keep believing. 18 point gap now isn’t it?

C'mon. Your rebuttal is that you quoted one of the polls mentioned, incidentally the one with few respondents and the only one that had 'Boris' winning?

 

[Grendel]

Is it that your daughter is very left wing, or just very left wing in your eyes?

I have friends on the left that see me as slightly to the right because I make the concession that economic considerations have to be taken into account alongside the ideology of what I think would be the best course of action. Do too much too soon and you can cause a lot of short term damage.

On the other hand I've got friends on the right who see me as a raging leftie because I don't think business, jobs, money etc are the most vital (or in some cases only) aspect of political decision making.

I also find it odd that she considers Corbyn a follower when most of his parliamentary life he's rebelled against party orders. Alexander on the other hand will vote on party lines unless he sees a personal opportunity in it for him. Doesn't matter if he actually believes it - just that it will give him a better chance to further his own ambitions - that is not a leader, it's a narcissist.

I think she may have mistaken charisma for leadership.

She is very left wing by any definition

Of course Corbyn isn’t a leader. He has zero leadership qualities - he’s followed McDonnell all his life. It’s McDonnell whose always stood against the leadership - he even admitted this time round he asked Corbyn to stand as he couldn’t be bothered.

Corbyn is a backroom analyst. Also he’s pretty dim education wise and it shows

whatever I think of John McDonnell I do think as a leader he’d be a real threat to Johnson - he’s smarter, he’s better at engagement and a much quicker thinker.

she’s voting green

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It is as though some are happy to have Corbyn as leader. But they never explain why an idiot like Boris has a big lead over Corbyn.

'Boris' has charisma. Corbyn on the whole doesn't. That is why he is ahead. We live in an age of celebrity and look at the vacuous numpties that fill up airtime and have millions of social media followers. Why do they have so many yet people with good ideas and intelligence have none? Why should I know some slapper from Essex is having a vajazzle via the MSM but not that someone is testing new technology that could have massive improvements in the climate challenge or beating cancer for example?

 

[Grendel]

C'mon. Your rebuttal is that you quoted one of the polls mentioned, incidentally the one with few respondents and the only one that had 'Boris' winning?

The others were not polls they were social media influenced

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I don’t believe Corbyn has stated that and the position is just laughable

He said it at least three times in the debate for a start. Plus I've seen him say it in news interviews.