General Election 2019 thread (73 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Sorry this utter nonsense

So why didn't Ed Miliband get a crushing majority using that strategy?

 

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[lifeskyblue]

It’s an entirely sensible strategy not to debate

I’m not sure from this whether you agree with Otis that it’s a sensible strategy he is a blabbering fool or you think it’s a sensible strategy as he is ahead in the polls and has more to lose than gain.


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[skybluetony176]

Will. The red lines be like Theresa May's red lines? Wobbly.

This is a red line of death, you cross it you die

Okay. This is a red line of death, you cross it you die.

Okay, this is a red line of death, you cross it you die...

 

[Grendel]

I’d expect nothing less from you.

Not me if you. Tired media paranoia and a refusal to accept people do not want the vision labour offer and fear for dark times ahead

 

[Grendel]

I’m not sure from this whether you agree with Otis that it’s a sensible strategy he is a blabbering fool or you think it’s a sensible strategy as he is ahead in the polls and has more to lose than gain.


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Every incumbent leader would and has done the same

 

[shmmeee]

Just like Brexit it will be easiest deal in history....for Trump.

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[Grendel]

So why didn't Ed Miliband get a crushing majority using that strategy?

Because he is a blithering fool and presented a series of policies the uk find abhorrent the their beliefs

 

[CCFCSteve]

Out of interest, as a (relatively!) sane poster around here, I'm interested as to why no chance whatsoever.

(I mean, you've probably said half a dozen times before, but it's a bit hard to move amongst the top level banta being thrown out elsewhere...)

haha, no worries. Yeah, something just doesn’t sit well with me with the pair of them (I think McDonnell is as powerful as Corbyn in their relationship hence me referring to them together) ie I think there’s more to their plans over and above what is being proposed/declared and I also done like their past ‘relationships’/views in relation to terrorist organisations.

Theres some really good stuff in the labour manifesto (mainly looked at the budget/costings space rather than read all) like increased funds for social care, helping homeless etc. Also, I like the focus on increasing social housing etc (brutal I know but I’d be more proactively recovering social housing from those who earn over certain sums to free up more !)

However, I don’t like the ideological spending. The broadband for all, the nationalisation of all industries (rather than maybe just any that are in a real mess - I’ve mentioned the half in/half out railways for example) etc. This spending is totally uncosted and I’d want to know where it’s coming from and what the additional interest on the borrowing would be. It’s easy to offer giveaways, everyone likes to hear they will get more but who’s paying ?

Johnson gets hammered for being economical with the truth but I find Corbyn disingenuous and in some cases as bad/worse, hence him struggling last night (paying the £60bn waspi/pensions hole out of ‘reserves’ ?!!!). Even ‘NHS for sale’ evidence today doesn’t appear to be quite as it’s being revealed. Don’t get me wrong could there be more access to US firms as part of a trade deal, yes. But do I think a UK government would agree to something that would increase NHS Medicine spending by ten of billions per annum....really ?!!! We currently spend £17-18bn, Corbyn suggesting drug costs would suddenly be 5 times more in a trade deal...how would that make economic sense when we/government pays ?!!

The fact is taxes would rise for all under the labour manifesto not just those on over £80k due to these additional uncosted amounts and potential ramifications of policies (negative reaction from the rich/business if they are pushed further). They will know this.

Probably unnecessary but might relevant for some background to me/my views. I was initially bought up in a council house by my mum and at other stages in my childhood it was just me, my brother and her, so I am all for sensible welfare/state support for those that need it most. Having said that my mum worked constantly throughout our childhood so got very little extra help (our grandparents picked up the slack)

I went to a local comp and worked hard(ish). but I don’t have an issue with private schools....it might not have ended up in the manifesto but we all know what the far left members were pushing for ie their abolition. For me, it’s parents choice. I’d love all schools to be equal but they’re not, never have been, never will be. Private school parents actually save the rest of us a fortune by not having their kids further clogging up the system.

I want a fair system which is why I’m pretty much down the middle in politics as I can see benefits on both sides. Help those that need help but encourage individuals to be ambitious and do as well for themselves and their family as possible.

Bet you wished you hadn’t asked now !

ps tried to tidy this up with cutting and pasting but wasn’t working so apologies of bits appear a little out of order

 

[Ian1779]

Not me if you. Tired media paranoia and a refusal to accept people do not want the vision labour offer and fear for dark times ahead

Let’s see come Dec 12th

 

[CCFCSteve]

Which bits not true? I'm not talking about what Labour have or haven't done I'm talking about the Conservatives. Your reply highlights the issue, instead of responding to the issues raised the response is 'but Labour'.

sorry Dave, my bad ! I should’ve been clear that I was replying to your comment about Tories should be miles ahead.

 

[shmmeee]

haha, no worries. Yeah, something just doesn’t sit well with me with the pair of them (I think McDonnell is as powerful as Corbyn in their relationship hence me referring to them together) ie I think there’s more to their plans over and above what is being proposed/declared and I also done like their past ‘relationships’/views in relation to terrorist organisations.

Theres some really good stuff in the labour manifesto (mainly looked at the budget/costings space rather than read all) like increased funds for social care, helping homeless etc. Also, I like the focus on increasing social housing etc (brutal I know but I’d be more proactively recovering social housing from those who earn over certain sums to free up more !)

However, I don’t like the ideological spending. The broadband for all, the nationalisation of all industries (rather than maybe just any that are in a real mess - I’ve mentioned the half in/half out railways for example) etc. This spending is totally uncosted and I’d want to know where it’s coming from and what the additional interest on the borrowing would be. It’s easy to offer giveaways, everyone likes to hear they will get more but who’s paying ?

Johnson gets hammered for being economical with the truth but I find Corbyn disingenuous and in some cases as bad/worse, hence him struggling last night (paying the £60bn waspi/pensions hole out of ‘reserves’ ?!!!). Even ‘NHS for sale’ evidence today doesn’t appear to be quite as it’s being revealed. Don’t get me wrong could there be more access to US firms as part of a trade deal, yes. But do I think a UK government would agree to something that would increase NHS Medicine spending by ten of billions per annum....really ?!!! We currently spend £17-18bn, Corbyn suggesting drug costs would suddenly be 5 times more in a trade deal...how would that make economic sense when we/government pays ?!!

The fact is taxes would rise for all under the labour manifesto not just those on over £80k due to these additional uncosted amounts and potential ramifications of policies (negative reaction from the rich/business if they are pushed further). They will know this.

Probably unnecessary but might relevant for some background to me/my views. I was initially bought up in a council house by my mum and at other stages in my childhood it was just me, my brother and her, so I am all for sensible welfare/state support for those that need it most. Having said that my mum worked constantly throughout our childhood so got very little extra help (our grandparents picked up the slack)

I went to a local comp and worked hard(ish). but I don’t have an issue with private schools....it might not have ended up in the manifesto but we all know what the far left members were pushing for ie their abolition. For me, it’s parents choice. I’d love all schools to be equal but they’re not, never have been, never will be. Private school parents actually save the rest of us a fortune by not having their kids further clogging up the system.

I want a fair system which is why I’m pretty much down the middle in politics as I can see benefits on both sides. Help those that need help but encourage individuals to be ambitious and do as well for themselves and their family as possible.

Bet you wished you hadn’t asked now !

ps tried to tidy this up with cutting and pasting but wasn’t working so apologies of bits appear a little out of order

haha, no worries. Yeah, something just doesn’t sit well with me with the pair of them (I think McDonnell is as powerful as Corbyn in their relationship hence me referring to them together) ie I think there’s more to their plans over and above what is being proposed/declared and I also done like their past ‘relationships’/views in relation to terrorist organisations.

Theres some really good stuff in the labour manifesto (mainly looked at the budget/costings space rather than read all) like increased funds for social care, helping homeless etc. Also, I like the focus on increasing social housing etc (brutal I know but I’d be more proactively recovering social housing from those who earn over certain sums to free up more !)

However, I don’t like the ideological spending. The broadband for all, the nationalisation of all industries (rather than maybe just any that are in a real mess - I’ve mentioned the half in/half out railways for example) etc. This spending is totally uncosted and I’d want to know where it’s coming from and what the additional interest on the borrowing would be. It’s easy to offer giveaways, everyone likes to hear they will get more but who’s paying ?

Johnson gets hammered for being economical with the truth but I find Corbyn disingenuous and in some cases as bad/worse, hence him struggling last night (paying the £60bn waspi/pensions hole out of ‘reserves’ ?!!!). Even ‘NHS for sale’ evidence today doesn’t appear to be quite as it’s being revealed. Don’t get me wrong could there be more access to US firms as part of a trade deal, yes. But do I think a UK government would agree to something that would increase NHS Medicine spending by ten of billions per annum....really ?!!! We currently spend £17-18bn, Corbyn suggesting drug costs would suddenly be 5 times more in a trade deal...how would that make economic sense when we/government pays ?!!

The fact is taxes would rise for all under the labour manifesto not just those on over £80k due to these additional uncosted amounts and potential ramifications of policies (negative reaction from the rich/business if they are pushed further). They will know this.

Probably unnecessary but might relevant for some background to me/my views. I was initially bought up in a council house by my mum and at other stages in my childhood it was just me, my brother and her, so I am all for sensible welfare/state support for those that need it most. Having said that my mum worked constantly throughout our childhood so got very little extra help (our grandparents picked up the slack)

I went to a local comp and worked hard(ish). but I don’t have an issue with private schools....it might not have ended up in the manifesto but we all know what the far left members were pushing for ie their abolition. For me, it’s parents choice. I’d love all schools to be equal but they’re not, never have been, never will be. Private school parents actually save the rest of us a fortune by not having their kids further clogging up the system.

I want a fair system which is why I’m pretty much down the middle in politics as I can see benefits on both sides. Help those that need help but encourage individuals to be ambitious and do as well for themselves and their family as possible.

Bet you wished you hadn’t asked now !

ps tried to tidy this up with cutting and pasting but wasn’t working so apologies of bits appear a little out of order

Curious as to what Labour could do to get you onside. You seem open to a vaguely left wing manifesto (we will agree to disagree on broadband and schools), is it just Corbyn and what you see as not being honest about tax rises? It’s received wisdom that the U.K. electorate won’t vote for any party promising to raise tax. Do you think that means we will have an ever shrinking state here?

I just want to see is head towards what the Nordic countries have done. I hate seeing what’s happened to people I care about in this economic climate and I worry about the actual climate. I find it beyond belief that people would be OK with continual decline of public services and increases in poverty but that seems to be where we are.

Genuinely thinking of emigrating, give me some hope Mr Swing Voter

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Because he is a blithering fool and presented a series of policies the uk find abhorrent the their beliefs

He tried being Tory lite though. Shouldn't it have worked?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Curious as to what Labour could do to get you onside. You seem open to a vaguely left wing manifesto (we will agree to disagree on broadband and schools), is it just Corbyn and what you see as not being honest about tax rises? It’s received wisdom that the U.K. electorate won’t vote for any party promising to raise tax. Do you think that means we will have an ever shrinking state here?

I just want to see is head towards what the Nordic countries have done. I hate seeing what’s happened to people I care about in this economic climate and I worry about the actual climate. I find it beyond belief that people would be OK with continual decline of public services and increases in poverty but that seems to be where we are.

Genuinely thinking of emigrating, give me some hope Mr Swing Voter

Sorry mate, probably little hope coming from me I’m afraid !

If it was just the costed manifesto part I might have considered it...but it’s not.

Unfortunately we’ll have to agree to disagree on the benefits/costs of the broadband pledge and various nationalisations but ultimately I believe that these all cost and we haven’t got it so it’s either massive extra borrowing or significant tax rises (or a fair bit of both)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not me if you. Tired media paranoia and a refusal to accept people do not want the vision labour offer and fear for dark times ahead

Who will there be to blame once we're out of the EU and the Scots and Northern Irish have gone?

 

[shmmeee]

Sorry mate, probably little hope coming from me I’m afraid !

If it was just the costed manifesto part I might have considered it...but it’s not.

Unfortunately we’ll have to agree to disagree on the benefits/costs of the broadband pledge and various nationalisations but ultimately I believe that these all cost and we haven’t got it so it’s either massive extra borrowing or significant tax rises (or a fair bit of both)

I meant in general. 2020s either go 1960s/90s or 1930s by my reckoning. What can they do for 2025 (assuming Boris holds it together that long)?

If it was this policy minus the nationalisation and no Corbyn would that be enough?

Do we have to go back to Tory light? Is there any investment you’d consider worthwhile at this point?

Are you against all borrowing ever? Even now when it’s basically free money and inflation will reduce the cost over time?

 

[shmmeee]

Who will there be to blame once we're out of the EU and the Scots and Northern Irish have gone?

Lefties. Always lefties.

 

[Grendel]

Who will there be to blame once we're out of the EU and the Scots and Northern Irish have gone?

Well I can assure you there is far more chance of two of those things happening under Mr Corbyn

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well I can assure you there is far more chance of two of those things happening under Mr Corbyn

You don't care anyway right so why bother?

 

[Otis]

It’s an entirely sensible strategy not to debate

You would not be saying that if Corbyn was the only one not to be interviewed.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Lefties. Always lefties.

Fuckin' LEFTIES

 

[CCFCSteve]

I meant in general. 2020s either go 1960s/90s or 1930s by my reckoning. What can they do for 2025 (assuming Boris holds it together that long)?

If it was this policy minus the nationalisation and no Corbyn would that be enough?

Do we have to go back to Tory light? Is there any investment you’d consider worthwhile at this point?

Are you against all borrowing ever? Even now when it’s basically free money and inflation will reduce the cost over time?

As I’ve said before, I am pretty much down the middle so labour lite or Tory lite probably suits me and is why I’ve voted for both in the past.

I am 100% behind investment but money has got to be spent wisely and in the right areas. For me that’s people who need it most and infrastructure projects that will help local communities and the countrys productivity (hence my earlier comments)

But unfortunately, we, like a lot of countries are massively insolvent. We also have a social care ticking time bomb, an unaffordable public sector pension deficit and a state pension system that, if people continue to live longer, is also unsustainable.

Basically we are pretty fucked so let me know where you’re emigrating to as I might have to join you !!!

Ps my one major hope is a political shake up, together with some innovative ideas and cross party agreement/work to solve some of these problems. I won’t hold my breath !

Pps that’s not even mentioning global climate change issues !

 

[Grendel]

You don't care anyway right so why bother?

I can’t deny the rights of the Irish under the Belfast agreement if we left the EU so that’s a process that could happen if they desire it anyway

if Scotland want to destroy their country to satisfy a mad ideological dictator like Sturgeon then I wish them well

 

[Grendel]

You would not be saying that if Corbyn was the only one not to be interviewed.

If he was ahead in the polls I would see why he would not do it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I can’t deny the rights of the Irish under the Belfast agreement if we left the EU so that’s a process that could happen if they desire it anyway

if Scotland want to destroy their country to satisfy a mad ideological dictator like Sturgeon then I wish them well

Don't know about you but not sure that the Leave rump of England and Wales would emerge from those events unscathed.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If he was ahead in the polls I would see why he would not do it

Or maybe his minders know that every time he opens his mouth he's a liability

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Interestingly polls from Northern Ireland show the Alliance Party up 10% on their 2017 performance, DUP and Sinn Fein both down with a small gain for the SDLP.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

As I’ve said before, I am pretty much down the middle so labour lite or Tory lite probably suits me and is why I’ve voted for both in the past.

Dare I say it, you sound like a Lib Dem!

 

[shmmeee]

As I’ve said before, I am pretty much down the middle so labour lite or Tory lite probably suits me and is why I’ve voted for both in the past.

I am 100% behind investment but money has got to be spent wisely and in the right areas. For me that’s people who need it most and infrastructure projects that will help local communities and the countrys productivity (hence my earlier comments)

But unfortunately, we, like a lot of countries are massively insolvent. We also have a social care ticking time bomb, an unaffordable public sector pension deficit and a state pension system that, if people continue to live longer, is also unsustainable.

Basically we are pretty fucked so let me know where you’re emigrating to as I might have to join you !!!

Ps my one major hope is a political shake up, together with some innovative ideas and cross party agreement/work to solve some of these problems. I won’t hold my breath !

There’s really an ideas drought on in centrism at the moment. Managerial politics is fine when things are ticking along OK, but we’ve got some massive transitions coming down the line fast (automation, climate, ageing) and some serious issues from the consensus of the last forty years IMO (isolation, precarious employment, social cohesion [all one problem IMO]). That takes change. Historically it’s taken something big and shocking like the three day week or the war to change direction but all of these issues are slow creepers, boiling the frog. I worry that the pain of change will remain above the pain of staying the same for some time.

As for where else: Northern Europe mostly. Especially after seeing the pensions and general ethos of such places. None of them are perfect, but most make a good fist of softening the edges of modern life.

I honestly think it all comes down to a destruction of community (I blame Thatcher ). That’s why I’m a socialist.

 

[shmmeee]

Dare I say it, you sound like a Lib Dem!

Nah Steve’s alright

 

[CCFCSteve]

Dare I say it, you sound like a Lib Dem!

Haha, you know as well as others that post on the Brexit thread that I couldn’t vote for Lib Dem’s in this election NW !!! Revoking article 50 would be outrageous whatever your Brexit beliefs

I wouldn’t rule it out in future though. Depends on policies and circumstances at the time

Shmmeee - I have got a bit of good news I forgot to mention earlier. My local constituency is 7k labour majority so my little old vote isn’t gonna do much either way !!!

 

[CCFCSteve]

Nah Steve’s alright

don’t read above post !

 

[Otis]

Dare I say it, you sound like a Lib Dem!

Has to be better than a Con Dom.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Will. The red lines be like Theresa May's red lines? Wobbly.

Anyone's guess

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Nobody has to do it

Had this been Corbyn you'd be putting up your little JFC meme and you know you would.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Come on mate. At some point once it’s walked like a duck and talked like a duck, you gotta stop pretending it might be a swan in disguise.

The people in charge of the Tory party have spent decades telling everyone who will listen that they’d like a private health service. When people tell you who they are, listen.

Well I think ducks might be less biased than a few of you

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