General Election 2019 thread (36 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

From what I know from 2020 a small number of companies are going to legally grow cannabis under licence from the Dutch Govt. It's a trial period to measure the impact on crime etc. and restricted to a few areas.
There was a plan to allow householders to grow a maximum of 5 plants for personal use.
In purely financial terms the lucrative side of the illegal drugs (and criminality) isn't so much about cannabis but the harder drugs and synthetic drugs. In 2017 the official police figures 22 bn Euros worth of synthetic drugs were made in Holland.

Absolutely correct, all drugs are illegal everywhere in Holland.


Various local authorities turn a blind eye to small scale usage but you can still be arrested by the state police.

Where local councils have 'licensed' cannabis cafés the regulations governing them are routinely ignored.

so would this suggests that decriminalsation/legalisation isn't at the root of Hollands current problems with drug related violence?

 

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[dutchman]

so would this suggests that decriminalsation/legalisation isn't at the root of Hollands current problems with drug related violence?

The easy availability of drugs certainly hasn't reduced the amount of drug crime.

Cannabis cafés and shisha lounges are routinely subjected to gun and bomb attacks, I assume by rival drug suppliers.

 

[Astute]

But Holland does have legalised cannabis and cannabis tourism.
Is this violence related to that or illegal class A drugs? I don't know because I've not read the whole story to be honest.

They don't have legalised cannabis as such. They turn a blind eye and don't prosecute for small amounts. In other words it is tolerated.

What are the drug laws in the Netherlands

The problem they have is because drugs are tolerated it makes it easier for harder drugs. And because they don't have the manpower to check everything and everyone it makes it easier than in a country that doesn't have such a tolerance to drugs of any sort.

I suppose many start off selling canabis but see that the harder drugs make more money. And the top drug lords move in to make their cut.

It certainly isn't as easy as saying this is legal and that isn't legal. That is the problem of being tolerant instead of law based.

 

[Astute]

Er no one seems to agree with you but your self - which seems to happen a lot

The question was how personal experience do you have - we all know the answer anyway

How about your personal experience? You was shown to be incorrect at best for saying who can be guaranteed to get in. I showed you that those who you stated are not guaranteed as thousands get turned down. Even those needed ti work for the NHS that are needed by the same government that says how many can come in.

But your lies continue. Well done.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Knife carrying.
Gun ownership.
Speeding.
Legalise drugs today, and the door opens to anyone with an agenda.
The dickhead at the school gates selling drugs to children would love drugs to be legalised, it wouldn’t stop dealing, it would just make it more affordable, and less risky, And which drugs do you legalise? All of them, or just a few, and who gets to decide?

The decision of which gets legalised should be scientifically led. At the moment, it’s just cannabis that I think should be legalised. You can’t just invoke the slippery slope to prevent the legalisation of a substance that is no more harmful than tobacco. This isn’t Reefer Madness and we need to move on from the days of thinking that making addictive substances illegal makes the problem go away. The evidence from the USA doesn’t support the concerns you have.

 

[Grendel]

How about your personal experience? You was shown to be incorrect at best for saying who can be guaranteed to get in. I showed you that those who you stated are not guaranteed as thousands get turned down. Even those needed ti work for the NHS that are needed by the same government that says how many can come in.

But your lies continue. Well done.

No you showed a link that proved regarding skilled workers / which is all I mentioned - that you are wrong.

Earlier you were telling Dave his company was wasting their time trying to recruit from the Far East unskilled labour which is the only reason I offered my experience

You have no experience but clearly have more knowledge than the company he works for and the one I work for

You laughably then upload a link which if you could actually read states what I said in the text. You were lured by a headline and fail to grasp what it was really telling you.

You have no idea what constitutes a skilled worker. You have no idea about how Daves company can recruit (I’m sure their HR department will have evaluated) and you have no idea in practice how cases like this are handled.

There is zero point in continuing this discussion

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They don't have legalised cannabis as such. They turn a blind eye and don't prosecute for small amounts. In other words it is tolerated.

What are the drug laws in the Netherlands

The problem they have is because drugs are tolerated it makes it easier for harder drugs. And because they don't have the manpower to check everything and everyone it makes it easier than in a country that doesn't have such a tolerance to drugs of any sort.

I suppose many start off selling canabis but see that the harder drugs make more money. And the top drug lords move in to make their cut.

It certainly isn't as easy as saying this is legal and that isn't legal. That is the problem of being tolerant instead of law based.

The American states have varying degrees of legalisation and offer good opportunities for case studies in how to get it right or not. But all you have ended up doing is arguing for a more liberal approach than decriminalisation.

So thank you again.

 

[tisza]

The American states have varying degrees of legalisation and offer good opportunities for case studies in how to get it right or not. But all you have ended up doing is arguing for a more liberal approach than decriminalisation.

So thank you again.

surely far too soon to evaluate the success of legaliszation in some states. Economics can be evaluated fairly quickly but the social effects (crime, other drug use etc) needs a reasonable amount of time to be judged.
The amount of money in many countries big business is investing into cannabis-related products suggests they believe there will be a larger relaxation of rules in those directions in the future in "key markets".

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

surely far too soon to evaluate the success of legaliszation in some states. Economics can be evaluated fairly quickly but the social effects (crime, other drug use etc) needs a reasonable amount of time to be judged.
The amount of money in many countries big business is investing into cannabis-related products suggests they believe there will be a larger relaxation of rules in those directions in the future in "key markets".

Colorado has had legalisation since 2012. Their teenage marijuana usage dropped and at the moment is one of the lowest in the country since the state invests the proceeds in drug-specific education.

 

[Astute]

No you showed a link that proved regarding skilled workers / which is all I mentioned - that you are wrong.

Earlier you were telling Dave his company was wasting their time trying to recruit from the Far East unskilled labour which is the only reason I offered my experience

You have no experience but clearly have more knowledge than the company he works for and the one I work for

You laughably then upload a link which if you could actually read states what I said in the text. You were lured by a headline and fail to grasp what it was really telling you.

You have no idea what constitutes a skilled worker. You have no idea about how Daves company can recruit (I’m sure their HR department will have evaluated) and you have no idea in practice how cases like this are handled.

There is zero point in continuing this discussion

Correct. No point in trying with you at all. You was proven to be wrong/lying.

Bye.

 

[Astute]

The American states have varying degrees of legalisation and offer good opportunities for case studies in how to get it right or not. But all you have ended up doing is arguing for a more liberal approach than decriminalisation.

So thank you again.

OMG.

Point out where I have said differently. I said we need to be careful how we do it.

Why do you frequently make out I have said something that I haven't?

This place is a joke sometimes. Constant allegations are made that are false. And you are as bad as Grendel for making them.

 

[Grendel]

Correct. No point in trying with you at all. You was proven to be wrong/lying.

Bye.

In your own mind for sure. You do seem to not understand what you read

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

OMG.

Point out where I have said differently. I said we need to be careful how we do it.

Why do you frequently make out I have said something that I haven't?

This place is a joke sometimes. Constant allegations are made that are false. And you are as bad as Grendel for making them.

You are the straw man king on here dude and it’s usually so you can argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[Astute]

You are the straw man king on here dude and it’s usually so you can argue for the sake of arguing.

How about showing where I said I am against legalizing canabis then.

Of course you can't as usual. As usual I ask you to show where I have said what you accuse me of so you try to turn it around on me with your straw man bullshit.

Don't worry will not be joining in with your bullshit again.

 

[Grendel]

You are the straw man king on here dude and it’s usually so you can argue for the sake of arguing.

When you mention Straw Man he probably thinks you are referring to the BBC waste of licence fee money adaption of Worzel Gummidge

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

When you mention Straw Man he probably thinks you are referring to the BBC waste of licence fee money adaption of Worzel Gummidge

Probably is Worzel Gummidge

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So did Holland. Now they have lost control.

This is you arguing against more liberal drug policy by the way. You then went on to contradict yourself a few pages later.

 

[tisza]

Colorado has had legalisation since 2012. Their teenage marijuana usage dropped and at the moment is one of the lowest in the country since the state invests the proceeds in drug-specific education.

Legalized Cannabis in Colorado Emergency Departments: A Cautionary Review of Negative Health and Safety Effects
Not all a bed of roses. Another report has 15% of babies being born with THC in their blood. Drug driving another big increase.
It's a learning curve still. Sure it can be done but it seems to be learning as they go.

 

[shmmeee]

One murdered lawyer? There has been more. How many murders of officials would you like?

You are nearly as famous as Grendel for making your own facts up.

UK: failed state
'It was coming to him': What gang of teenagers 'shouted after stabbing married lawyer' | Daily Mail Online

 

[shmmeee]

From what I know from 2020 a small number of companies are going to legally grow cannabis under licence from the Dutch Govt. It's a trial period to measure the impact on crime etc. and restricted to a few areas.
There was a plan to allow householders to grow a maximum of 5 plants for personal use.
In purely financial terms the lucrative side of the illegal drugs (and criminality) isn't so much about cannabis but the harder drugs and synthetic drugs. In 2017 the official police figures 22 bn Euros worth of synthetic drugs were made in Holland.

You can grow legally now I think. The misuss’ brother grows at home there and everyone seems to be cool with it.

 

[Sick Boy]

You can grow legally now I think. The misuss’ brother grows at home there and everyone seems to be cool with it.

It’s not legal, 5 plants or under is treated in the same way as possession, and could be confiscated by the police. In reality though, they’re not going to bother.

 

[stupot07]

Boris "The NHS is not for sale."

The reality....

Private firms invited to run NHS services with cancer and kids treatment on sale

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Sick Boy]

Boris "The NHS is not for sale."

The reality....

Private firms invited to run NHS services with cancer and kids treatment on sale

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Surprise, surprise...

 

[tisza]

See the city centre is getting a cash boost and other help

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

More in the UK than elsewhere? Don't be silly. They have to get passed our borders to get here. But most of the borders in the EU are invisible. So they are free to move all the way to the sea borders we have instead of the first place they land unless they land somewhere like Italy where the EU has got tough.

I don't believe it - I said 'if YOU think more people...." to the person I was replying to.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not just Europe, look at what is going on in India with the anti-Muslim Citizenship Amendment Act.

I kept it to the EU to prevent the use of "EU law won't let us" as an excuse.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So you have never seen any programmes on fraud? Never seen anything on tax dodging?

OK.

Do you see as many on them as you do on benefits? Even the fraud ones concentrate on the low level stuff which is essentially people on benefits rather than those doing it for millions. In terms of money cost to the Treasury there should be 10x as many programmes on corp tax evasion/avoidance than on benefits fraud.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

If they legalise cannabis the whole country will go to pot.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The people in this country that refuse to work should be forced into work.

What makes you think the people running the businesses/services want them working for them? Have to pay them but they'd do fuck all anyway. Good way to ruin team morale is to have a complaining, workshy twat on your workforce. Others end up having to do more to cover for these bone-idle people.

Who exactly are you gong to force to take them on? Who's going to pay the extra for the people that have to keep an almost constant watch on them such that it'd be cheaper to just get those supervisors to do the work themselves. Public sector? Want to pay more taxes for that do you?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Piers Morgan is absolutely spot on in this clip! Everything he says is right....

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It's a shame Germany couldn't of taken our 40k as well. You lot seem to be happy enough to open the floodgates for anyone. Where will they be schooled? What about housing them? Healthcare?
You can just blame the Tories I suppose for the state of country whilst you wave through thousands of scroungers.

Who said anything about 'waving through thousands of scroungers' or 'opening the floodgates'? I'm actually far more to the right in terms of immigration and poor border security than most of my political leanings.

Although I'd love to know how you simultaneously have all immigrants down as both scroungers and taking jobs from locals.

Able to avoid border security, simultaneously take on work and claim benefits and all in their second language (if they understand it at all). Pretty impressive really - seems they're far more intelligent than we are.

 

[chiefdave]

See the city centre is getting a cash boost and other help

Good news but wasn't this already announced in September? Be interesting to see how much we actually get, think £25m mentioned in the CT might be optimistic given the total fund is £1bn and there's 100 towns and cities receiving funding in phase one alone.

Now just have to cross our fingers that the council don't screw it up.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The nonsensical argument is the one where we legalise something, just because we can’t stop people breaking the law.

It's not to do with that - it's the scientific evidence that is constantly ignored in terms of addictiveness, mind-altering ability etc.

All of those show that if we have things like pot criminalised then tobacco and alcohol have to as well due to their effects. We have a huge number of alcoholics who are jobless, homeless, have massive mental and physical health problems and their families/friends (which in turn has a knock-one effect), cause huge societal costs in policing and healthcare etc. Yet the argument is that the tax/jobs etc made negates these effects. So why not use this model for other substances?

No-one is suggesting 'going soft' on drugs. It needs a robust legal framework and harsh financial/custodial penalties handed down for those that don't follow the rules backed up with educational material to explain the dangers.

 

[fatso]

It's not to do with that - it's the scientific evidence that is constantly ignored in terms of addictiveness, mind-altering ability etc.

All of those show that if we have things like pot criminalised then tobacco and alcohol have to as well due to their effects. We have a huge number of alcoholics who are jobless, homeless, have massive mental and physical health problems and their families/friends (which in turn has a knock-one effect), cause huge societal costs in policing and healthcare etc. Yet the argument is that the tax/jobs etc made negates these effects. So why not use this model for other substances?

No-one is suggesting 'going soft' on drugs. It needs a robust legal framework and harsh financial/custodial penalties handed down for those that don't follow the rules backed up with educational material to explain the dangers.

But who decides which drugs are legalised?
There is a lot of evidence to suggest cannabis and cocaine can cause serious mental problems, so do we just ignore that? Or is it ok as long as it generates jobs and tax?

 

[clint van damme]

But who decides which drugs are legalised?
There is a lot of evidence to suggest cannabis and cocaine can cause serious mental problems, so do we just ignore that? Or is it ok as long as it generates jobs and tax?

So you would ban alcohol?