chiefdave
Well-Known Member
How do they stop loads of non-Labour supporters signing up to vote in the worst candidate?
New Labour Leader (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter shmmeee
- Start date
tisza
Well-Known Member
RLB gets in & Farage takes the credit
Sudden surge in support for Thornberry ? It's not like Momentum haven't tried to get their preferred candidates into individual constituencies by getting supporters to join local constituency parties.
Maybe Shmee can explain if there's any sort of filter - more local knowledge than me
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Hasn’t Len Mcloskey already done that?
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Looking at who is pushing RLB and (God forbid) RIchard Burgon, it is obvious these people have either not learnt the lessons of the December 2019 catastrophe or really don't care if we get a Labour government or not.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The problem is that they are completely out of touch and seem to think the country is on the cusp of a socialist revolution. They’re the sort who seem to favour being a protest movement rather than an actual opposition party. They should just form their own party rather than continuing to drag the party down.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I know, it is frankly staggering that anyone thinks this thick, racist twat is fit to even be in the party, nevermind an MP or even considered to be deputy leader.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. I'm a lifelong Labour voter and member, I want us in Government and I'll be voting for Keir Starmer in the leadership election as I think he is the most credible and the person most likely to attract voters who currently don'y support the Labour party.
It really is staggering that people like RLB, Burgon, Butler, Abbott, etc get into the Shadow Cabinet. Breathtaking.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Starmer
Rayner
I think that will do me. Not as left as I'd like but more likely to be in a position to implement something other than hunting the poor.
Rayner
I think that will do me. Not as left as I'd like but more likely to be in a position to implement something other than hunting the poor.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I could stomach Rayner at a push.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
The only concern I have over Starmer is he's a London man in a suit.
Now, in normal times that's all well and good, and he could rip Johnson apart intellectually. But... that doesn't affect Johnson in the slightest. So, you have the potential for someone to win an argument nobody's listening to, while seeing a member of the establishment in front of them.
Therefore, do you go for something obviously different to Johnson? Something that enables you to reconnect with your traditional base as Johnson (inevitably) disconnects?
I dunno the answer tbh! I'd lean towards Starmer as much because in terms of past ability he merits the chance, and in a meritocracy that should triumph above all else.
But we're not in normal times.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The party need to ditch Lansman and his crackpot think tanks
Elections are not won by forcing an ideology down people’s throats
tisza
Well-Known Member
According to RLB its absolute bollocks that people have rejected her brand of socialism. Apparently everyone in her "people's Republic of Salford" loves it so it must be right (from a speech this week)
Burgon just baffles me. His sense of denial in election night interviews was just befuddling.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Couldn't agree more. Momentum and similar cranks such as JVL and the Socialist Campaign Group do nothing but damage the party and the chances of ever defeating the Tories.
Johnson is the most incompetent PM we've ever had, yet I fully expect him to have a good decade in Number 10 because of the state of the Labour party and their lack of self awareness for the reason we were totally wiped out.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
With respect - Starmer suggesting that Labour should have listened to ‘middle class’ voters more during 2019 suggests that he isn’t learning any lessons either...
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well they should if they ever want to get back into power
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
The party needs them on side too if it is to win an election.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
They won’t ever be able to make enough gains in ‘middle class’ England to negate losses in Northern England, Wales or Scotland.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Yes it has to bridge a gap between the 2 I agree. But saying we didn’t listen to the PV campaign (which essentially it is) is pretty daft considering we just got whooped for not respecting the Brexit vote.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No you were always going to lose as you had a leader who was less popular, policies no one cared about and ran a shambolic campaign. Even Blair today would have beaten Johnson and that’s something you will never get your head round
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Policies were broadly popular
Brexit policy was a disaster
Corbyn agreed to an election on Johnson’s terms
Blair would have campaigned to revoke Brexit and would have been annihilated in Leave areas
Now Johnson promises to spend a few quid after a decade of cuts and he’s the messiah. Funny how being on the right lets you get away with anything-Corbyn fucked up but let’s not pretend they were held to the same standard.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Again the policies are broadly popular means nothing and is an irrelevance
It’s because of these absurd beliefs and myths you have as to why labour is where it is.
You need to get your head out your arse and quickly
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I believe his full name is actually Richard Fucking Burgon lol
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Policies were popular in isolation when you didn’t know who was going to deliver them. Taken as a package they were a wish list of stuff people had no faith in us to deliver that didn’t speak to their priorities.
I’m a Labour activist and I couldn’t tell you our headline health policy other than “Tories bad”. That’s an issue we are strong on which a significant portion of the electorate count as a top issue, and we couldn’t get a message across. Same for the environment outside of buzz words like “green industrial revolution”, it means nothing to the average voter.
We had nothing to say on Brexit, crime, immigration or really the economy despite those being the other top issues.
We need to talk on voters terms, not ours, and have the humility to accept where we need to compromise with the electorate.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
No it means when polled people like the policies on offer and in 2017 I heard few complaints. More to the point when the Tories copy them or half bake them theyThis time around even I was reluctant to vote for them and expressed as much for months in the build up.
I would pick Starmer to spend the next 5 years calling out Johnson on every time his pack of lies comes undone. His lies on Northern Ireland would be a good start and since he lies every week there’s no shortage of ammunition.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Good luck to you as an activist. Right now I’m pretty disillusioned with British politics so will try to ignore it for 5 years then hope Ireland hasn’t reunified by the end of it
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
THey're going to have to. We need to win 124 more seats at the next election just to get a majority of 1. We need a leader who attracts those middle class voters, plus voters from the Home Counties, etc if we are to get into power. RLB, Burgon, Butler aren't the people to do that. Burgon in particular is an electoral disaster. An ex-Tory voter is going to go for a Long-Bailey/Burgon "dream ticket". This is why I dispair so much at the lack of understanding from the current leadership along with McCluskey, etc. If RLB gets in then the Tories will be in Downing Street for at least another decade.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
With respect it was about much more than the Brexit vote as to why Labour lost the election, to continue to blame Brexit for the defeat is not looking at the big picture as to they the defeat was so significant. Not sure I can agree that listneing to middle class voters equals listeing to the PV's campaign either.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Two voter coalitions that can win a majority in this country:
socially conservative soft left working class with middle class lefties in public services
socially liberal middle classes with Home Counties Tories.
Anything else isn’t geographically spread correctly for FPTP. Blair thought he could get enough of the second and keep enough of the first and it worked at first but the first group have been leaving the party since and Brexit just put rocket boosters under that.
If you want the second group you’ll need to go basically Lib Dem’s in terms of economics and the membership won’t like that, if you want the first you need to go blue Labour on crime and immigration and the membership won’t like that.
Personally I’m of the belief that the Labour Party was founded for the first group not the second. I didn’t join to make middle class graduates lives slightly easier. But that’s not a very popular opinion these days.
socially conservative soft left working class with middle class lefties in public services
socially liberal middle classes with Home Counties Tories.
Anything else isn’t geographically spread correctly for FPTP. Blair thought he could get enough of the second and keep enough of the first and it worked at first but the first group have been leaving the party since and Brexit just put rocket boosters under that.
If you want the second group you’ll need to go basically Lib Dem’s in terms of economics and the membership won’t like that, if you want the first you need to go blue Labour on crime and immigration and the membership won’t like that.
Personally I’m of the belief that the Labour Party was founded for the first group not the second. I didn’t join to make middle class graduates lives slightly easier. But that’s not a very popular opinion these days.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The policies may have few complaints but still may not attract votes
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
That would be because the leader has a massive influence. One was an expert charlatan the other was a wet lettuce geography teacher who lacked his energy from 2017 when he got more votes than Blair in 2005
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No it’s just no one really cares that much about specific policies
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
That’s the problem
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Some policies were popular granted, but others were ridiculous, i.e. free broadband.
The Brexit policy was a disaster but to blame this for our defeat is ridiculous considering more people voted for remain parties (Labour, LD, Green SNP) than for the Tories or the Brexit party. Corbyn was a massive, massive issue and the main reason for the defeat. The poll the day after election stating that 43% didn't vote for Labour solely because of Corbyn, whereas only 17% said it was because of Brexit.
The Conservatives beat Labour in every social class. We have a Conservative government today and for at least five years because of Jeremy Corbyn, not because of Brexit. It's a shame his arrogance and those sycophants that surround him trumped everything else.