Coronavirus (9 Viewers)

[Ring Of Steel]

If you can't stop something, surely there's a good argument for letting it do its thing, and working instead to try and make sure it doesn't overwhelm the health service.

Otherwise aren't you just delaying the inevitable? People can't stay inside forever.

Thats one idea, yes, just have it 'do its thing' and kill a few people before they have to aggravate the NHS.

 

---

[eastwoodsdustman]

Apparently the Earl of Mercia in town has just shut as someone has collapsed in there and has symptoms. Wont take too much more of this sort of thing to happen before lots of places start shutting altogether for a week or two.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Thats one idea, yes, just have it 'do its thing' and kill a few people before they have to aggravate the NHS.

Yeah because I obviously said that what I want to do is kill off a few people...

What if following the process as currently being practised saves more lives than just panicking and running around half-cock?

 

[shmmeee]

If you can't stop something, surely there's a good argument for letting it do its thing, and working instead to try and make sure it doesn't overwhelm the health service.

Otherwise aren't you just delaying the inevitable? People can't stay inside forever.

Counter argument here is that you flood the healthcare system to the point it can’t handle it, the virus mutates and reinfects people and more vulnerable people die.

We are about to find out what happens when the measures are lifted looking at China, but it seems we are gambling on as you say it coming back once they are.

The point of the delay phase is to flatten the peak and get out the winter months where there’s more capacity in the system. Not to stop it entirely. For that we’ll need to wait for a vaccine I’d guess.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

the virus mutates and reinfects people and more vulnerable people die.

Of course there's always the risk it mutates and, because people haven't been exposed to the 'mild' original, they have no tolerance built up, so many die anyway...

There's nothing to be done apart from follow the advice of the medical experts and, if they say we shouldn't go into lockdown, then we shouldn't. I can't control anything other than accept that many people have far more training in this than I, and therefore I have to bow to their wisdom.

 

[shmmeee]

Of course there's always the risk it mutates and, because people haven't been exposed to the 'mild' original, they have no tolerance built up, so many die anyway...

There's nothing to be done apart from follow the advice of the medical experts and, if they say we shouldn't go into lockdown, then we shouldn't. I can't control anything other than accept that many people have far more training in this than I, and therefore I have to bow to their wisdom.

I think the problem is there’s very much two schools of thought among medical experts. And most countries seem to be going with the other one.

 

[Grendel]

I think the problem is there’s very much two schools of thought among medical experts. And most countries seem to be going with the other one.

They don’t - we haven’t reached the escalation point and also it’s making zero difference in these countries rate of outbreak anyway

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I think the problem is there’s very much two schools of thought among medical experts. And most countries seem to be going with the other one.

Its not "all" the experts anyway, thats just garbage, look what John Ashton says, he used to run Public Health England.

"I’m very frustrated here. I’m with Richard Horton, the editor of the Lancet, and with Tedros Adhanom, the director-general of the World Health Organisation — I think it was a kick up the bottom particularly for this country. We’ve got a complacent attitude, it feels wooden and academic, and we’ve wasted a month when we should have been engaging with the public. If this now spreads the way it looks likely to spread, there will not be enough hospital beds and people will have to be nursed at home. We should have gotten a grip on this a month ago,” he added.

Editor of science journal The Lancet, Mr Horton said earlier this week Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock are "playing roulette with the public" by not implementing "social distancing and closure policies" sooner. He tweeted on Tuesday: "The UK government’s decision not to move to 'delay' may be understandable, but it’s a mistake. As one UK expert epidemiologist put it to me last night, their decision is 'very disappointing—the UK should have moved to more aggressive social distancing measures immediately."

 

[shmmeee]

They don’t - we haven’t reached the escalation point and also it’s making zero difference in these countries rate of outbreak anyway

You think lockdown in China didn’t do anything?

 

[Nick]

Apparently the Earl of Mercia in town has just shut as someone has collapsed in there and has symptoms. Wont take too much more of this sort of thing to happen before lots of places start shutting altogether for a week or two.

All dayer with flu symptoms in Spoons?

 

[Grendel]

You think lockdown in China didn’t do anything?

The lockdown in China forced people Gmk remain in their homes and certainly wouldn’t have given them any state intervention through loss of earnings at all. Of course if everyone is under house arrest and under curfew but I thought you said you needed to earn money?

 

[Nick]

You think lockdown in China didn’t do anything?

Lockdown? More like Wok Down when all the takeaways shut.

 

[Grendel]

All dayer with flu symptoms in Spoons?

Yeah more Diamond White than Corona

 

[shmmeee]

The lockdown in China forced people Gmk remain in their homes and certainly wouldn’t have given them any state intervention through loss of earnings at all. Of course if everyone is under house arrest and under curfew but I thought you said you needed to earn money?

You’re all over the place as usual. We are discussing medical advice and when to put in social distancing measures not economic relief after the fact.

Look at most European countries with a similar infection rate to us, we are definitely the outlier. Time will tell if that’s wise.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Time will tell if that’s wise.

It will. What we can't do, however, is criticise pre-emptively. I'm not even sure we can after the event tbh.

 

[Grendel]

You’re all over the place as usual. We are discussing medical advice and when to put in social distancing measures not economic relief after the fact.

Look at most European countries with a similar infection rate to us, we are definitely the outlier. Time will tell if that’s wise.

As usual you are. The chief virologist has said the infection rate is not anywhere near the same - and it’s pretty obvious it isn’t - the clues are in the number of cases and in particular the number of deaths per capita.

It’s acknowledged that the segregation can only last for a limited point of time and then people will return to normal habits so as the expert said you apply the handbrake and the real point you need.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It will. What we can't do, however, is criticise pre-emptively. I'm not even sure we can after the event tbh.

Actually you can.

NPR Choice page

Every country which had a clear, aggressive plan & acted early is doing better.

Ashish Jha, who runs the Harvard Global Health Institute, says the response to the coronavirus has varied dramatically around the world. "Some countries have been very aggressive and have actually done quite a good job," he says. "Other countries have been quite lackadaisical and, I think, have suffered immensely from it. And I think there are lessons to be learned for all of us."

Italy and Iran both fall in the latter category. Jha says that before cases of COVID-19 were first diagnosed, Italy and Iran appeared to be in denial about the disease.

"I mean, you had the Iran deputy health minister coughing on national television talking about coronavirus," Jha says. "But really not taking it seriously."

That deputy health minister later tested positive for the virus.

As people started to get sick, neither Italy nor Iran did much testing. They were slow to stop mass gatherings. Eventually both countries were overwhelmed with cases.

 

[David O'Day]

Apparently the Earl of Mercia in town has just shut as someone has collapsed in there and has symptoms. Wont take too much more of this sort of thing to happen before lots of places start shutting altogether for a week or two.

Nowt on telegraph site. Also you don't just collapse because of covid-19.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[Nick]

Nowt on telegraph site. Also you don't just collapse because of covid-19.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

You do if you want to make a claim.

 

[wingy]

All dayer with flu symptoms in Spoons?

Highly unlikely anything to do with Corona

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Highly unlikely anything to do with Corona

(waits for joke about a different beer other than Corona being the cause of this gentleman's collapse)

 

[David O'Day]

You do if you want to make a claim.

You'd stick to the floor though

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[wingy]

What would be really useful is some data on how effective children are at spreading this.
There isn't much but very very few have been original source .
There might be some connection to exposure of previous Corona building immunity , assume that would be among 10-20 age group.

 

[shmmeee]

What would be really useful is some data on how effective children are at spreading this.
There isn't much but very very few have been original source .
There might be some connection to exposure of previous Corona building immunity , assume that would be among 10-20 age group.

Something I was reading was saying that because symptoms are so mild in children they don’t often get tested and show up as a lower incidence rate in many stats but apparently if you look at some countries that have done extensive testing it shows children get it at the same rate as the rest of the population.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Something I was reading was saying that because symptoms are so mild in children they don’t often get tested and show up as a lower incidence rate in many stats but apparently if you look at some countries that have done extensive testing it shows children get it at the same rate as the rest of the population.

You are spot on- Singapore tested all children and if positive they took action to stop them spreading it even though they didn't exhibit any symptoms.

 

[wingy]

Actually you can.

NPR Choice page

Every country which had a clear, aggressive plan & acted early is doing better.

Ashish Jha, who runs the Harvard Global Health Institute, says the response to the coronavirus has varied dramatically around the world. "Some countries have been very aggressive and have actually done quite a good job," he says. "Other countries have been quite lackadaisical and, I think, have suffered immensely from it. And I think there are lessons to be learned for all of us."

Italy and Iran both fall in the latter category. Jha says that before cases of COVID-19 were first diagnosed, Italy and Iran appeared to be in denial about the disease.

"I mean, you had the Iran deputy health minister coughing on national television talking about coronavirus," Jha says. "But really not taking it seriously."

That deputy health minister later tested positive for the virus.

As people started to get sick, neither Italy nor Iran did much testing. They were slow to stop mass gatherings. Eventually both countries were overwhelmed with cases.

Examples Hong Kong , Singapore.
Much wearing of masks there.

 

[Nick]

Wouldn't people who wear a mask week in, week out have more chance of having a weaker immune system?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Wouldn't people who wear a mask week in, week out have more chance of having a weaker immune system?

never hurt Spiderman

 

[wingy]

Something I was reading was saying that because symptoms are so mild in children they don’t often get tested and show up as a lower incidence rate in many stats but apparently if you look at some countries that have done extensive testing it shows children get it at the same rate as the rest of the population.

I guess in terms of coughing, spluttering and spreading that way would be unlikely as no symptoms.

 

[Grendel]

You are spot on- Singapore tested all children and if positive they took action to stop them spreading it even though they didn't exhibit any symptoms.

Singapore is hardly the same as here - again it’s another hugely oppressive regime

 

[wingy]

With regard to the criticism of when to go with social distancing there was a suggestion from the BBC correspondent at that first briefing , that there may have been some disparity between the scientific and govt stance.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Singapore is hardly the same as here - again it’s another hugely oppressive regime

You could never do exactly what they did, but the principle remains. We did nothing apart from parade some experts out and have Johnson talk about shaking hands with sufferers.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

With regard to the criticism of when to go with social distancing there was a suggestion from the BBC correspondent at that first briefing , that there may have been some disparity between the scientific and govt stance.

Yes there was- a big discrepancy. The feeling was that the government wanted to take a 'strategic' approach which contradicted the scientific approach. That was blamed on Cummings but I have no idea about that.

 

[Grendel]

You could never do exactly what they did, but the principle remains. We did nothing apart from parade some experts out and have Johnson talk about shaking hands with sufferers.

Germany has risen by 800 in a day - we have risen by 134 - what are they doing that we are not?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

What % of people in the UK do people think will get the virus if we can't slow it down?

Im going with 10-20%