Wasps downward spiral... (31 Viewers)

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jordan210

jordan210

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Got to be an error hasn't it? Stock Exchange shows a 42% drop in value in a day.
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Its really odd the data isn't showing from yesterday. No idea what's going on very odd. Unless LSE is having to check things manually or something. Data has gone crazy.

This showed the data yesterday when it wasn't showing on LSE last day true data was shown was on the 12th

WASPS FINANCE PLC 6.50\% STG SEC BDS 13/05/22 (WAS1) - Share Price | Shares Magazine
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
djbooth said:
I don’t know anything about bonds. Surely if that the case then they would have to stop trading them, until the issue was solved???
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Not sure what the rules are, suspect it is caveat emptor as the bond information booklet sets out the risks. Although not sure what the rules are if it is known definitively that the interest payments cannot be made.
 
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
Not sure what the rules are, suspect it is caveat emptor as the bond information booklet sets out the risks. Although not sure what the rules are if it is known definitively that the interest payments cannot be made.
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In theory the investors have no problem at this time so long as they get their 6 monthly interest
If that is not paid there is a default procedure that could involve calling on the guarantees

What seems to be happening now is it looks as though some people have some adverse knowledge ( EU ? FCA ? who knows what ) or are speculating WASPs will not be able to refinance and are pulling out
 
jordan210

jordan210

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
It looks to me like someone might be trying to dump a lot of the bonds and is doing it in smallish blocks to avoid spooking the market...
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I think you can only sell 25,000 at a time. As all the historic trades are for around that mark. Not sure what the trades have been over the last few days as isn't showing up to date.
 
duffer

duffer

Well-Known Member
jordan210 said:
I think you can only sell 25,000 at a time. As all the historic trades are for around that mark. Not sure what the trades have been over the last few days as isn't showing up to date.
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Ah, that’s a very good point, I’d not realised that in truth. You’d sense it’s a buyer’s market either way! :)
 
jordan210

jordan210

Well-Known Member
duffer said:
Ah, that’s a very good point, I’d not realised that in truth. You’d sense it’s a buyer’s market either way! :)
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I guess if wasps go pop that is the worst case scenario as a buyer. As won't see anything back. Who knows what's going on with the bond. Once we have all the correct data might be easier to see a trend
 
C

CCFC88

Well-Known Member
jordan210 said:
I think you can only sell 25,000 at a time. As all the historic trades are for around that mark. Not sure what the trades have been over the last few days as isn't showing up to date.
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I don't think there have been any sales since the last one you can see. I think the drop you see if the price people are selling for but nobody is buying them, nobodys buying anything anywhere at the moment with all the uncertainty.

Would you buy bonds where the repayment is based around the performance of a Rugby team/sports stadium/exhibition centre which does not know when their next Rugby match/Concert/Exhibition will happen. Could be April could be 2021.

If it continues like this past the summer and into the winter they will need a bailout of astronomical proportions, one that neither the RFU or Uncle Derek are likely to provide.
 
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
jordan210 said:
I think you can only sell 25,000 at a time. As all the historic trades are for around that mark. Not sure what the trades have been over the last few days as isn't showing up to date.
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I will check this out but it does not stop you indicating you want to sell 25000 over next 10 days - I suppose?
 
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
CCFC88 said:
I don't think there have been any sales since the last one you can see. I think the drop you see if the price people are selling for but nobody is buying them, nobodys buying anything anywhere at the moment with all the uncertainty.

Would you buy bonds where the repayment is based around the performance of a Rugby team/sports stadium/exhibition centre which does not know when their next Rugby match/Concert/Exhibition will happen. Could be April could be 2021.

If it continues like this past the summer and into the winter they will need a bailout of astronomical proportions, one that neither the RFU or Uncle Derek are likely to provide.
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Or PRL or CVC?
 
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CCFC88

Well-Known Member
oldfiver said:
Or PRL or CVC?
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Could it be that they see this as a way to get to their 12 team ring fenced league? Who'd really miss Wasps, their core London base is losing interest, their Coventry base hasn't materialised, there'd be outrage for 2 months but they'd soon be forgotten. The sky blue conspiracy theorist in me coming out
 
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CCFC88

Well-Known Member
If my calculations are correct (could be miles off, happy to be corrected) there are 4 more 6.5% coupon payments left, May 20, Nov 20 May 21 & Nov 21.
If you were to buy 100,000 units it would cost you around 25k at the current offers. If they can pay them you'd get your 6.5% coupon payments over 100,000 units x 4 = 26k

Does this mean there is effectively 0 confidence in them repaying in 2022?

To be honest with no income in sight, the league suspension coming out of virtually nowhere, they're likely to be in a real fix for cashflow, how do they pay £2,275,000 (35m*6.5%) in May 2020?

Happy to be told if really wrong here.
 
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oldfiver

Well-Known Member
CCFC88 said:
If my calculations are correct (could be miles off, happy to be corrected) there are 4 more 6.5% coupon payments left, May 20, Nov 20 May 21 & Nov 21.
If you were to buy 100,000 units it would cost you around 25k at the current offers. If they can pay them you'd get your 6.5% coupon payments over 100,000 units x 4 = 26k

Does this mean there is effectively 0 confidence in them repaying in 2022?

To be honest with no income in sight, the league suspension coming out of virtually nowhere, they're likely to be in a real fix for cashflow, how do they pay £2,275,000 (35m*6.5%) in May 2020?

Happy to be told if really wrong here.
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Your maths are correct - however we can see no-one is even buying at the bottom price. Therefore the potential buyers see a risk even at that level
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
oldfiver said:
DrunkenWasps.com - Wasps financest
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Tenancy was not a viable business model
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Why is a sports team wanting to own and control its own ground considered to be a negative
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giphy.gif
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
Just been reading about a couple of big property companies that have closed the gate on trades.
CBRE have notified them that it is not possible to make valuations in the current climate.
 
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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
They’ve gone from ‘we don’t need CCFC’ to ‘any tenancy needs to be profitable for us’ to ‘there needs to be a joint venture’ in a matter of months.

I hope they go bust, will be the best thing sisu ever did fucking the franchise over.
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As long as we complete the season, get promoted - then Coronavirus could be the best thing to happen to the club.

If we could I’d tell them to shove it and wait for them to go bust. Unfortunately it’s not sustainable to stay in Birmingham for 2 more years
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
tisza said:
to cover losses in this specific period, not for the business overall.
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Hows it going to be implemented though. You would hope someone like Wasps can't go we're looking at losing £10m over the next 6 months and have that covered. Won't they look at recent trading and say you were losing that anyway we're not covering it?
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Hows it going to be implemented though. You would hope someone like Wasps can't go we're looking at losing £10m over the next 6 months and have that covered. Won't they look at recent trading and say you were losing that anyway we're not covering it?
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would have thought it would cover normal missing income - not what you want. It's not there to refinance businesses just cover cashflow issues. Going to be an ongoing process to keep businesses going. SISU can't say we need 3 million for a new striker to ensure promotion :)
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Hows it going to be implemented though. You would hope someone like Wasps can't go we're looking at losing £10m over the next 6 months and have that covered. Won't they look at recent trading and say you were losing that anyway we're not covering it?
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They've got no chance of getting a loan, no chance at all. They're way below the credit rating required.
 
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CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
And they are still trying to buy a training ground and don’t have a pot to piss in!?

I seriously don’t think the people running that club are qualified to run such a thing. It’s reckless spending and lumping debt onto debt. It’s going to catch up soon and it’s looking like 2021.
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
Funniest shit I ever saw.

I know it doesn’t matter to them currently but it will and it’s a big fuck you to anybody that wants to invest in franchising.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Nick said:
Is that down 64% in a day to about £24?
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No it’s as I understand what you get if you sell - I don’t understand why people are bailing at that price as I assume a payment is due in May
 
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